Official JVC X30 / RS45 owner's thread! - Page 134

I'm considering this projector for my next 2D exclusive usage movie machine but have quick question on it's CMS system. My understanding is that it has limited CMS controls...correct? If in fact it has limited controls, which ones does it have and are there any issues getting a good colour out of the unit?

Thanks in advance.

The RS45/X30 doesn't have a CMS, the next model up does. However, it does have a choice of picture modes that can be used. I believe that 'Standard' is closest to rec709 though it may be slightly undersaturated (this can vary by example too). If you have an external CMS then generally you would use one of the modes that gives oversaturation so that the CMS can 'reign' it in.

With no CMS then just use the closest mode to rec709. In any case you would need a meter and software to confirm, so maybe without all you can do is read the original reviews to pick the nearest to rec709 mode, to confirm if it is 'standard'. This mode doesn't suffer the gross oversaturation of the older RS1/10/15 models and is subjectively good judging by the reviews I read at the time.

There is a CMS in the service menu, but it is for factory use and doesn't seem to help much with calibration IIRC.

Up until now, CMS's haven't worked on most projectors anyways. It will be interesting to see if the new crop have addressed these issues.

I am having serious issues getting a deep colour signal to my X30 over a 10m cable.

I am using the Clicktronic Advanced HDMI Cable. It is their top model with 4x shielding and silver-plated 24AWG wires. Still I get sparkies when switching to Deep colour on the PS3, feeding the X30 direct.

Has any of you had similar issues and those of you who are running deep colour to your x30 over 10m or more - what cable are you using ? Are you using any HDMI switches or repeaters???

If you are only using the PS3 for blu ray playback and gaming then there is no reason to enable Deep Color.

Jason

When would be the reason then to use Deep Color? I know that there is no DVD or BD with Deep colour, but I assume the interpolation could reduce banding(?).

- I also have a Toshiba XE1 HD-DVD player which seems to only output 12bit colour (I see no option for disabling it)

- another thing is that I expect it from a cable in this class.

Yeah they are going to replace it. I'm just thinking in the long run, or if the warranty voids, 400$ is a lot. I was wondering if anybody had tried any non official lamps, as they are at least half the price.

Webmonkey, I'd use another soluton if you are going to runs much greater than 25'. This is the ~limit for high speed. 1080P/8bit uses less than 1/2 bandwidth of high speed HDMI spec and that is why many people use longer runs without problems even though 1080P is "high speed". As you engage 12 or 16 bit that bandwidth increases and will often cause problems as will future formats like 4k2k. I'd either change the cable or use 8 bit if your HD-DVD works. There will be a new version of HDMI coming out and it might even use more bandwidth:eek:

Hi from the land of chocolate everyone,

I just bought the X30 for the very attractive price of just under 2,000 Swiss francs here in Switzerland. Not often that things are "cheap" here but that price looked too good to pass up and I have been eyeing this projector for a while. I guess the X35s are right around the corner. Anyway, will be getting my X30 next week and am pretty psyched.

While I've read the reviews I simply have no way of wading through this mammoth thread (130 odd pages) now.

Can someone either point me to a website or two or give me the skinny on anything special I should be configuring on the X30 to make sure it is set up as well as it can be for 2D films?

I'm in a dedicated home theater without windows.

Only 2 sources at the moment:

"Ye olde" Technics DVD-A10 for DVDs outputting into an HTPC over an SDI cable (Dscaler in the HTPC)
.avi and .mkv etc files on the HTPC using the pack of shareware softs (MPC-HC, ffdshow, madVR, AutoFrequency etc) described here.


By the way, as it has been a year or two I am not sure if there are currently better HTPC playback methods than the above package and very helpful link, but I have to say going through that guy's tutorial and taking the trouble to configure the various shareware programs he's recommended has really improved the playback quality of relatively compact .mkv files etc. Still, as I say since setting this up about 2 years ago I have not felt the need to check back and up until now I have only been viewing the .avi and .mkv files on our Full-HD LCD television in another room, leaving the home theater for DVD duties only.

Along with the X30 purchase I plan on upgrading my dedicated home theater setup - specifically the HTPC. As I say, the room is a dedicated space without windows, and audio side is fantastic, so just need to do the necessary to get the best out of my new X30.

Best,

Dave M
Edited by dave in gva - 11/9/12 at 8:04am

Appreciate the helpful info! For what it's worth, my PS3 is connected to my RS45 with 2 HDMI cables (both standard). Here's the chain...

PS3 -> 6ft HDMI -> Pioneer 1021 A/V receiver -> 35ft HDMI -> JVC RS45.

The JVC is reporting 12-bit from the PS3 and I have no playback issues. I'm using 5 year old HDMI cables (Blue Jeans Cable).

A well made 35ft cable MIGHT work at full bandwidth, remember 12 bit is not full bandwidth either. 16 bit would be close to full bandwidth at 1080P/60. The reason it might work is there is a little fudge factor in the spec and with the right components and cables it could work. About 25 feet is the longest that passes full HDMI spec.

Now if I were running something in the wall or in a place it would be difficult to change later I would want something that is tested for full bandwidth and I know will work. If it is easy to change cables then go cheap and see if you get lucky.

Are the motion issues I keep reading about that the JVC's suffer from, are they only a concern when watching sports? or is it a problem when watching 2D movies?

I use my W7000 for regular TV, sports and video games and looking at a new JVC for my go to movie projector.

Depends who you ask, it is hard to tell if it really makes much difference in movies, definitely not as much. I think probably a little.

I could do some more A/B but I don't have a 120hz+ DLP here (only 60hz), and the DLP I do have is not known for the best motion resolution.
Motion depends not just on the tech of course, but also on the specific projector, although DLP's do tend to win here. As far as natural motion at 48hz (24p x 2) or 60hz (30x2), the Mits hc4000 is the best I've seen so far. I have seen several DLP's which I think were doing 5:5 pulldown (24hz to 120hz WITHOUT FI), but I didn't get a chance to really A/B them vs. my JVC or watch the content I needed to see to make a determination. As far as motion + FI, well that just depends on the specific implementation of FI.

Most people watch the JVC in movies with all FI off (CMD=NONE) and then I believe it is doing 5:5 pulldown, just multiplying every 24p frame x 5 = 120hz.
Edited by coderguy - 11/9/12 at 9:41pm

Movement artifacts don't really have to do with frame rate. They have to do with pixel refresh rate and DLP is a clear winner over LCD and LCOS in this regard. The reason you don't notice movement artifacts as much with movies is how they are filmed. Movies don't often use quick camera pans so the change between frames is not tht great. The cameras are often on tracks or other system (cable, etc.) to follow the action. When they film sports a camera man often pans quickly to track the action. Although they do use some cable systems it is not as easy to follow with them because the action is not always going in the direction of the cable. The cable systems in sports is more to get better viewing positions and coverage than to track the action on a given play.

If you watch lower budget shows like HGTV you will often see quick camera pans as well. A camera man walks into a room and might quickly pan show to some feature in a room instead of slowly panning the room. Some of the bigger budget shows are filmed more like movies.

Thanks, so in laymen terms, having the JVC with its labeled motion issues is not really an issue while watching film....correct? Remember, I'm coming from an 8500Ub.

The JVC will be part of my two projector setup. It will either be a JVC or the Sony hw50.

Nah, you'd have to pretty hung up to try to see a difference. I think it's fine and different PJ's will look different in motion regardless of all the variables.

It is as most things are in imaging and video being a relationship between multiple factors. Motion artifacts are from a bunch of different things, motion resolution is just one of the factors, but the processing and implementation in a specific PJ also has an effect. Artifacts can come from the MR, but are also from processing issues in the PJ code and other reasons as well (even the response of internal HW components, etc...).
Edited by coderguy - 11/10/12 at 4:01pm

I am going to buy a jvc x30 on friday and what kind of problems should I be looking for when I get it setup?

I just bought an optoma gt750 yesterday and love the smooth motion from the pixel refresh rate. It looks like my jvc and optoma do not have a full cms so I need something other than the lumi 3d thang as I cannot afford it right now. Would a dvdo edge work to get me accurite color for when a professional calibration expert comes round my house to do do the color

No, the DVDO Edge does not have a CMS and only very basic calibration controls (that are duplicated in your projectors anyway), so discount this option for CMS use anyway.

You would need the DVDO Duo for full CMS/greyscale. Or search out a used Lumagen HDP or HDQ which have 11 point greyscale/gamma controls and control of the primaries (not a full CMS) but it's an older model with a few quirks, plus it was designed for a Pro to install, so there is a steep learning curve. Another option is a used Video EQ box which gives full CMS, but support was pretty poor I found.

I've owned all the above, apart from the Duo (I now have a Lumagen Mini3D ). In terms of the ones I've owned I say the CMS control goes in this order (greyscale being pretty much the same for each IMHO): Lumagen HDQ>Video EQ>Lumagen Mini3D (manual 8 point CMS)> Mini3D (autocal 125 point CMS). I believe that the Duo would fit around (level?) with the Mini3D 8 point CMS.

SO I sent my RS in for repair 11/1, received 11/5/12 they finally looked at it 11/12,12 and then updated the status to "parts waitlisted' - today I called and they said the parts won't be in unitl AFTER CHRISTMAS! The woman on the phone thought it was funny! So no movies for any of the holidays! My installer is pretty small so we'll see but if they can't get it exchanged this is one household that will not EVER buy a JVC product again. 9 mos old, 147 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, I can't believe it would take that long to get a specific part for a current model. I would think with that long of a wait they would just give you a refurbished RS45. If I were you I would either have your dealer call or you callback and press the issue.

Mike

This is a primary factor (customer service) that prompts many retailers and distributors to recommend Epson over the JVC brand

Ouch! Sorry to hear that. That is COMPLETELY unacceptable and I would raise hell if I were you.

I just recently sent my RS45 in for service (bad power supply) and it took right around 3 weeks total from the time I shipped it off until the time it hit my doorstep. The worst part about the whole experience is I did not even get an email saying they received it (had to call to find out) and they did not email me when they shipped it out and also did not have a tracking number to give me.......... The good news is my 45 was fixed and everything is great now, but there is really something to be said about warranty service that a company like Epson offers in comparison.

Have you tried getting your dealer involved?

Sorry to keep asking, but I'm not sure where else to turn.

My RS45 developed some very splotchy color on the picture, no matter the source material; it covers the entire image. Could this possibly be a lamp issue?

That sounds like something else. With the bad lamps they just would dim too early then die, never any discoloration or splotchy color issues with the lamps I have read about. I would call JVC and let them know the problem. They will probably have you send it in.

Mike

Hmm... Does your receiver have a strong output to drive that cable???

Are you in the US?

I have received exemplary service with Canada JVC .
I had an issue with my RS30, they replaced it.
Then the replacement had an issue and it required an update. I sent it in, JVC paid postage and return, back in 15 days.

I cant say enough about how much better JVC is in customer service/relations than most other projector manufacturers.

I have dealt with many.

US, NOT happy. My installer is trying to help but getting nowhere so far. Looking like this may be my last JVC product.

Wow, that really sucks, ltowne. If I were you, I'd be a very unhappy customer.

I can't believe in these days of forums, twitter, and blogs, when hundreds (if not thousands) of people will know when things don't go well, that these companies won't put in just the tiniest bit of extra effort to make sure they have the happiest customer possible.

For the minuscule bit of money and effort it would take to swap your projector with a refurbished one, you'd probably have a projector for the holidays, and the company would have potentially made an ambassador out of you. "They took care of me! I'd definitely buy JVC again!"

Instead, they've just created doubt in potentially hundreds of owners' (and potential customers') minds. "I'm never buying JVC again!" and the resulting "Wow, that sucks. What if that happens to me?" Worse (for JVC) is that this thread will live on for years for others to find.

Not smart, JVC. Not smart. I'll be watching the thread to see how it's resolved, and things like this will absolutely impact my next purchase decision, as I'm sure it will others.

Hopefully they wise up and you have a projector the holidays.

SC

I really do feel for Itowne, but I think that we sometimes get a bit full of our own self importance on forums: For anyone who searches about brand 'X' and 'Problems' they will find them: JVC, Epson, Panasonic, etc as that is how the internet seems to work, there are always posts about problems and very few about how happy people are.

Anything I'm considering buying could turn up some negative posts/reviews, so I've actually gone the other way in that I tend not to read too much into bad reviews (especially for holidays and hotels for example as some people really do seem to think that the world revolves around them and that they don't need to be polite to staff ). So while I think it's poor that the person Itowne spoke to seemed to think it was funny that he wouldn't have it back by Christmas, I don't think it's going to really effect their business by any significant amount. Of course they could have rushed him a spare unit, but if it wasn't 100% perfect then that could backfire too as he'd be on here saying that he now has a second faulty projector as I've seen on Epson threads with ongoing issues of uniformity for example. Maybe that person is snowed under with work and slipped up by admitting as much to a customer, so perhaps not laughing at him, but more at the suggestion that this repair could be done quicker, in the way that you might say to a colleague. Whatever, it's a bad single case, but not really the end of the world for anyone else who buys a JVC as they might not have that issue in the first place and they may well get a different person on the phone. Or the person that upset Itowne might go to work for Epson or Panasonic...

No doubt. This single case would certainly not detract me away from JVC. As a single case goes though, this is horrible IMO. He is basically going to be down for ~2 months from what they are telling him which is crazy (IMO) and not only that, but during what I consider the best HT time of the year (at least for me and I would think many others) being around the holidays. I would be irate personally if I were in his shoes!