I appreciate your work with the shootouts and I find that data very useful. I never said I thought you were chasing the SPL crown, or compared your subs to car stereos. It was a blanket statement about a trend I've seen on these forums with a lot of people "turning it all the way up" and being more concerned out "how loud will it go?" over "how good does it sound?" I think you knew this, and to twist it seems a bit disingenuous. I'm down in Joplin and would love to see and hear all those great subs together at some point because there is a severe lack of high end audio sources down here where we can actually hear some of these. I lived in New Orleans until Katrina, and even there we didn't have a huge audiophile community, but at least there were a few places where we could audition something other than what Best Buy carries.
My issue with some of your post is that you tend to make broad statements based on completely different data sets that you've extrapolated to some conclusion. I'm not the only one who says this, looking back at some of your post you've been called out before for doing the same thing in other threads. You simply can't compare two totally different test environments, no matter how much you think your room doesn't add gain. I answered your question about how I came to my conclusions and got my data after the first time you asked. But unless I want to go through the trouble to post a bunch of REW charts then I guess my methods are invalid. But if I did, I know it wouldn't be good enough if it didn't show what you want/expect it to show. You seem to have it in your mind that the PL-200 is the same thing as the F12 you've heard. Do you think all HSU and SVS subs are the same, too? All of this is pointless anyway, because someone who actually has the two speakers in the same environment has "spoken" , although not yet in direct answer to us. Its funny you want to invalidate his experience because of what speakers are in the front and back of the room, but yet you want us to validate your data taken in your room and equate them with ground plane measurements outside!
"Currently Capricorn Kid as the Klipsch in the front of his room and the PL-200 behind his seating position. Of course that can 100% change perception of a sub --- and long term audio memory for any of us is flat out terrible. So the measurements need to be taken to verify under identical conditions."
Please apply this methodology to your own opinions, rather than trying to invalidate the opinions of people who have real experience with the sub in question.
The same room might get you two different kinds of apples, but any in room data compared to outdoor ground plane data taken with different instruments, completely different equipment, etc is not even close. Your data is great and useful for the subs that have been in your room and set up correctly, but NONE of that applies to what someone else has measured in a completely different way. As I've already pointed out, some of the speakers that fared very well in your blind test were shown to have worse peaks that the PL200 in Josh's test. And before you twist that, I'm not saying it can compete with those better subs! Just that looking at Josh's graphs can lead you to some incorrect conclusions.
And I don't even want to have an argument about "my" subs. All of this back and forth is just because I said that the RW-12D and the PL200 were pretty close in terms of quality, so you couldn't go wrong either way. I was not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion. You though, seem to have a habit of using wonky and irrelevant data to try to shout down other people's opinions. And the more you are challenged the more circular your argument becomes. So, to keep this on topic, I'll go back to where we started and won't engage in any more discussion on the topic of the PL200s vs the RW-12Ds unless Capricorn Kid wants to finally weigh in. (I'll be glad to argue about something else, though
)In my opinion, based on hands on knowledge of the PL200s and all the data I've seen, the RW-12D and the PL200 are going to be very similar subs. If possible I would recommend listening to both. Short of that, I would recommend whichever you can get the cheapest when you are ready to buy. The 12D when at $300 is a bigger bargain compared to its retail price, so if that sort of thing matters to you, you might take that into consideration also.