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Emotiva, BEWARE of emotiva / issue resolved - Page 10  

post #271 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by emotivajess View Post

I thought I'd comment regarding our review policy. We do loan out products for reviews. David, I did not see your review request come across my desk, so I am sorry that you felt ignored.



Our publicist, Adam Sohmer, handles all of our review and press requests. If any professional reviewer or publication would like to reach Adam and does not have his personal information already, please email me at jessica@emotiva.com.


The UMC-200 has gone out for review. You can find a list on the product page. We've received 6 reviews so far and have more on the way. There are a few units currently out in the field.

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200
Hello Jess,

Well I received my two Emotiva XPA-1L and I got an interesting surprise "THE SMELL OF BURNED ELECTRONICS"  

The amps have a very strong smell like burned electronics, coming out of the box even before they were plugged in.  Does the smell goes away? It is so strong that I had to leave the windows open all night in that room.



 



I have never had that before with any electronic components? Even when my CA-5200 get hots after playing all day I never had a smell like that it is worrisome?



 



I sure hope the smell goes away otherwise I will have to send them back!



I don't know if i would describe it the same way you did, but my xpa-5 smelled for about 2 days when i first got it.
post #272 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Postwse, I noticed the same smell from a LPA-1 that I ordered from Emotiva (actually av123) a number of years ago. If I recall the smell went away but I sent the amp back due to audible transformer hum. Bill

Hello Bill,

 

Interesting the amps play fine I will let them play for 24 hours and see if the smell goes away, I sure hope so but who knows?

post #273 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

runnin,

I think the strong smell is most likely from a component(s) or material used inside the amps.

Well I just went to the Emotiva Lounge to check out a thread a friend posted in and across my computer screen was the big bold letters..........

You have been banned from this forum.

I guess my thirty ban has been extended biggrin.gif. No loss IMO wink.gif.

Hopefully his amp is okay with no damaged component. So Emotiva has banned you permanently by the sound of it. Nothing like controlling the content by banning objective posters, it clears room for the fanboys I guess!
post #274 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Bill, do you think that the hum was due to whatever was causing the smell ?

Mud,

I don't think the two were related. I have seen other posts from owners of new Emotiva amps that have an odd odor. It was almost like a petroleum based product smell. I think if I kept the LPA-1 the smell would have gone away. I've had trouble with transformer hum from a few different components. I'm not sure why some amps I've owned have transformer hum and others do not.

Bill
post #275 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Mud,

I don't think the two were related. I have seen other posts from owners of new Emotiva amps that have an odd odor. It was almost like a petroleum based product smell. I think if I kept the LPA-1 the smell would have gone away. I've had trouble with transformer hum from a few different components. I'm not sure why some amps I've owned have transformer hum and others do not.

Bill
Every AVR that I have bought had a smell that I think smelled as you describe. I sort of like it. Maybe that is why I have bought so many AVR's.
post #276 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Every AVR that I have bought had a smell that I think smelled as you describe. I sort of like it. Maybe that is why I have bought so many AVR's.

The smell that I had from the LPA-1 was quite strong and not that new AVR smell.

Bill
post #277 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotivajess View Post

I thought I'd comment regarding our review policy. We do loan out products for reviews. David, I did not see your review request come across my desk, so I am sorry that you felt ignored.

Our publicist, Adam Sohmer, handles all of our review and press requests. If any professional reviewer or publication would like to reach Adam and does not have his personal information already, please email me at jessica@emotiva.com.

The UMC-200 has gone out for review. You can find a list on the product page. We've received 6 reviews so far and have more on the way. There are a few units currently out in the field.

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200

Sorry Jessica, but as usual this appears to be another case of Emo trying to correct their errors a day late and many dollars short.

As for the reviews, having reviews done by beta firmware that (the specific version) has firmware that does not exist for customers smacks of (intentional or not) deceptive practices. A public review that started off in the wrong direction then changes based on said firmware is not (in my view) a true review.
post #278 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post

I may be wrong but ---
Aren't the Audioholics "Previews" of products really nothing more than announcements of new products? Virtually every new receiver, pre-pro, or other electronics devices are basically just posted with the specs and manufacturers roll-out info. Not reviews at all in my opinion.

Well said.
post #279 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I find it interesting that emotivajess has eleven "Thumbs Up" from just one post wink.gif. Thats quite impressive, for a moment I thought I was on the Lounge biggrin.gif.

Bill

Well, 12 of them were from Moe...lol

They probably sent out PMs over there to the Blue Crew to fly over here to rally the troops and take over over here. Lol
post #280 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Come to think of it, what are the odds that 5 requests from 3 different entities were all fall through the cracks.

About the same odds that Logitech didn't respond to Emo and I send Logitech one E-mail and all of a sudden the UMC-1 remote codes appeared in the Logitech DBMS. Yet Dan and Lonnie claim that they called and emailed and Logitech wasn't interested.

Truth IS stranger than fiction.
post #281 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

You should take you own advice. You despise Emo so move on rather than constantly restating your distaste

What is left to say that hasn't been said about the woes at Emo. Sharing valuable knowledge is good. Constant drivel about your vendetta is boring.

Enjoy your new found fame over with the Blue crew. LoL
post #282 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The smell that I had from the LPA-1 was quite strong and not that new AVR smell.

Bill
That must have been a men's cologne that somehow spilled inside that was being developed at Emotiva called Eau de Laufmann por homme.
post #283 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

About the same odds that Logitech didn't respond to Emo and I send Logitech one E-mail and all of a sudden the UMC-1 remote codes appeared in the Logitech DBMS. Yet Dan and Lonnie claim that they called and emailed and Logitech wasn't interested.

Truth IS stranger than fiction.

Vis,

I forgot about this subject from awhile ago. I found it odd that Logitech would not respond to Emotiva as well.

Bill
post #284 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

That must have been a men's cologne that somehow spilled inside that was being developed at Emotiva called Eau de Laufmann por homme.

Maybe that "odor" is what has entranced some Emotiva component owners wink.gif. It didn't take with me biggrin.gif.

Bill
post #285 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Vis,

I forgot about this subject from awhile ago. I found it odd that Logitech would not respond to Emotiva as well.

Bill

That's weird. When I was consulting for a certain company, all I had to was sent them a remote and code-list before the product was launched and "voila!" the code for the company I represent at the time suiddenly showed up within a week from the moment they received the remote and code list.
post #286 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Maybe that "odor" is what has entranced some Emotiva component owners wink.gif. It didn't take with me biggrin.gif. Bill

Right, I am not sure but after two days it still stinks, I give them a week after it's the boot! I will call them on Monday!
post #287 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post

I may be wrong but ---
Aren't the Audioholics "Previews" of products really nothing more than announcements of new products? Virtually every new receiver, pre-pro, or other electronics devices are basically just posted with the specs and manufacturers roll-out info. Not reviews at all in my opinion.

No, they are not reviews and I wasn't trying to infer that. However, they do include more than just an announcement of new products with company specs and roll-out info, at least in the Emotiva previews I read. But the point I was making was how many Emotiva products they've covered in a year compared to any other competing brand they've covered.

Here's Audioholics conclusion in the Emotiva XPA-1L preview: "If you've wanted to experiment with a Class A amplifier but didn't have the thousands it normally takes to step up to that level, the Emotiva XPA-1L is for you. With selectable Class A/Class A/B operation, it has something for everyone. Putting out 35 watts in Class A mode and 500 watts (4 ohms) in Class A/B mode, it should pair well with nearly any speaker you may own."
post #288 of 547
I've actually posted on this forum and had Gene respond. This is just more of an observation, simply count the number of reviews/previews and draw whatever conclusions you like.
post #289 of 547
I will most definitely agree with the comment about Emotiva ads. Seems like every audio site, magazine, Google search, virtually everywhere I look I find new Emotiva ads. Not sure how they pay for all that. I do own a couple of their products and am happy with the purchases. I did sign up for the waiting list for the XMC-1 but will not go forward with that. Would be interested in the RMC-1 but that is probably too far into the future and will end up getting a receiver as a pre-pro later this year.
post #290 of 547
I just have to say that the people over at Emotiva are really good at marketing and their business model is pretty smart. Not everyone can afford a very high end system due to their disposable income but want the idea of a having a high end setup. I myself don't have a high end system but am happy with my setup but was always intrigued by Emotiva. I live here in Canada so I was a little hesitant to deal with them but their service when it comes to sales is very good IMO. They can target all those customers who are starting to get into HT and the vets who want to save some money for whatever reason and dump their high end gear to get into their product.

I read the mini blog that David posted and I shop at one of the stores he is listed as their calibrator so I follow some of his stuff. The point where he calls them out in comparing there performance of their 599 prepro to a 4500.00 one is probably a bold move and can see how some might get defensive. Their whole marketing is wrapped around high end at lower prices and you see setups all over with their amps.

To conclude, I recently had a friend tell me he is gonna order pure class A amps from Emotiva for his Polk RTI12's and didn't know they had pure class A amps so I went to their website to do some research. Wow, they really know how to market their products using words like "You get the awesome purity of Class A" and switch into Class A. I might be wrong but think this is an A/B amp that is biased to class A for the first few watts like Parasound. If you go to Parasound's website the describe their Halo amp as "High Bias Class A/AB operation" IMO, they use words like audiophile, rethink high end, XPA-1L the dream made real, and etc is just smart marketing. "Don’t settle for an ordinary receiver—or another “entry level” processor/preamp when you can have true high-end performance at an amazingly affordable price" describing their prepro is very catchy and can see why they have a strong following.

Lets face it they are hot right now and do great at marketing their product. I also see them everywhere along with their loyal followers.
post #291 of 547
From the ad I find Parasound and PassLabs are describing the amp as class A-A/B as opposed to Emotiva selling it as "experience pure class A"

From listening to their DAC (promoted as having the quality of $1000 DAC...which is not) and playing with the pre-pro (promoted to be equivalent to $4500 processor...which is also not), it seems like Emotiva is taking the misleading-ad route.
post #292 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

So if you went to the Parasound site and you went to the Emotiva site and did "research" why are you confused about the operation of the XPA-1L amps?
The site clearly states how the XPA-1L operates as does the Parasound site in reference to their amps.

Pass Labs also makes Class A-A/B amps that are biased towards Class A operation just like Parasound and Emotiva.

There really is no significant difference between how these 3 amps operate other than the amount of negative feedback used.

All 3 use ad copy to emphasize whatever aspect they wish.
The confusion that Emo causes stems from playing fast and loose with terminology. Their ad copy states:
Quote:
Unfortunately, Class A amps are typically very large, very expensive, and tend heat up the whole house when you run them. They also usually aren’t the most powerful amps in the world, either. Well, not anymore! We’d like to introduce you to the new Emotiva XPA-1L
This is a direct implication that they are offering a Class A amp. But wait, there's more:
Quote:
the new Emotiva XPA-1L, with selectable Class A and Class A/B mode switching. Now you can have both: remarkable sound backed by real power.
I may choose Class A mode. That means real Class A, right? Read on:
Quote:
Flip the switch into Class A Mode and the XPA-1L transforms into pure Class A, high bias 35 watt sweetheart... with a kick.
Perfect! That still sounds like a Class A amp to me... But then, finally, comes the reveal:
Quote:
If you exceed the 35 watt threshold, it seamlessly transitions into Class A/B mode when the signal level goes above 35 watts, allowing it to deliver its full power.
The truth, at last. Well, that's exactly how a high bias Class A/AB amp works. So rather that starting off by explaining it is a high bias AB amp, we have to be told all about the problems of real Class A amps, and that they've solved it. >>Well, not anymore!<<

The XPA-1L is a Class AB amp with a choice of two bias settings, warm and cool. Period. It is never a Class A amp.

Hyperbole is nothing new in advertising, and caveat emptor remains good shopping advice. But I do not see Parasound or Pass resorting to such overstated language. And I'd also bet that besides their marketing materials, there's a lot more than negative feedback that distinguishes among these high-bias A/AB amps.
post #293 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The confusion that Emo causes stems from playing fast and loose with terminology. Their ad copy states: This is a direct implication that they are offering a Class A amp. But wait, there's more:
I may choose Class A mode. That means real Class A, right? Read on: Perfect! That still sounds like a Class A amp to me... But then, finally, comes the reveal: The truth, at last. Well, that's exactly how a high bias Class A/AB amp works. So rather that starting off by explaining it is a high bias AB amp, we have to be told all about the problems of real Class A amps, and that they've solved it. >>Well, not anymore!<< The XPA-1L is a Class AB amp with a choice of two bias settings, warm and cool. Period. It is never a Class A amp. Hyperbole is nothing new in advertising, and caveat emptor remains good shopping advice. But I do not see Parasound or Pass resorting to such overstated language. And I'd also bet that besides their marketing materials, there's a lot more than negative feedback that distinguishes among these high-bias A/AB amps.

So it's never a Class A amp!
post #294 of 547
It is a class A amp for low power levels, just like every other class AB amp. The difference is they have a switch to select how many watts you run in class A before switching into B. Some class AB amps may only be in class A for a few watts. Whether you can hear the difference I cannot say.

In truth, no amplifier can maintain class A under all load conditions.
post #295 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

It is a class A amp for low power levels, just like every other class AB amp. The difference is they have a switch to select how many watts you run in class A before switching into B. Some class AB amps may only be in class A for a few watts. Whether you can hear the difference I cannot say.

In truth, no amplifier can maintain class A under all load conditions.

It runs in class A for the first 30 watts, that doesn't sound like every other class AB amp. It also will apparently kiick itself out of class A operation if it heats up too much while other brands like Parasound don't operate this way. Most class AB amps do not run in pure class A for the first few watts unless they've been specifically designed to do so, I don't think it's some kind of default or industry standard. What am I missing, I remember having this discussion here before...
post #296 of 547
I do not understand your question. I like Emotiva so am not interested in a big argument, was just answering the comment above mine that "it is never a class A amp" when it most certainly is, at least for a little while.

My understanding is that when it overheats it returns to the "low bias" class A condition. That is, it is still class A for the first few watts (or whatever the low-bias condition is), but not all 30 W or whatever. I thought it was 35 W but you are probably right, I did not look. I have not researched the amp in any detail. I cannot imagine it switches to pure class B, however.

I have no idea where today's class AB amps are biased. A few years ago when I tried to look, I found it pretty hard to actually get that information. The ones that I did find ranged from <1 W to 10 W in class A before switching over. I do not remember what models and manufacturers actually provided the info (my notes are buried in the black hole masquerading as our basement storage area). Since average power is probably pretty low for most systems, and class A is mainly to reduce crossover distortion, I suspect few would actually notice in a blind test the difference between 1 W and 30 W of class A, but there are many other design factors at play. For example, there are likely more output devices to handle the higher class A bias, which should result in lower output impedance. How much that matters I could not say.

I can say the 100 W class A monoblocks that lived in my system long ago made great little space heaters. smile.gif

FWIWFM - Don
Edited by DonH50 - 6/10/13 at 6:37am
post #297 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

So if you went to the Parasound site and you went to the Emotiva site and did "research" why are you confused about the operation of the XPA-1L amps?
The site clearly states how the XPA-1L operates as does the Parasound site in reference to their amps.
Pass Labs also makes Class A-A/B amps that are biased towards Class A operation just like Parasound and Emotiva.
There really is no significant difference between how these 3 amps operate other than the amount of negative feedback used.
All 3 use ad copy to emphasize whatever aspect they wish.

I am not confused and see how some might interpret their advertising in a different light. They start out their advertising with this,"Ask any audiophile what kind of amplifier they dream about owning, and they’ll tell you: “a set of Class A mono-blocks!” Audiophiles know that Class A amps sound the best.", and end with "The Emotiva XPA-1L: the dream made real." Parasound describes their amps as High Bias Class A/AB operation.

If you see no SIGNIFICANT difference between the 3 amps, then that is your impression. I will repeat what I said and say they have very smart marketing and business model with internet direct sales, marketing, demographic and advertising. I made the post because I was responding to the post about their advertising and David's post calling out the claim of how their pre pro matches the performance of a 4500.00 one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The confusion that Emo causes stems from playing fast and loose with terminology. Their ad copy states:

I agree with this and it seems that maybe others understand what I was trying to say. IMO, part of their success is not only their price but how they are selling their product. They are everywhere and will continue to do well.
post #298 of 547
The JC1 can run either low bias (10 watts class A) or high (25 watts) with 400 watts at 8 ohms (800 watts into 4, 1200 watts into 2). A key stat to me is the 135 amp peak current capability.
post #299 of 547
Do you notice any difference in the sound when you switch between low and high quiescent bias?
post #300 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

My understanding is that when it overheats it returns to the "low bias" class A condition. That is, it is still class A for the first few watts (or whatever the low-bias condition is), but not all 30 W or whatever. I thought it was 35 W but you are probably right, I did not look. I have not researched the amp in any detail. I cannot imagine it switches to pure class B, however.

I have no idea where today's class AB amps are biased. A few years ago when I tried to look, I found it pretty hard to actually get that information. The ones that I did find ranged from <1 W to 10 W in class A before switching over. I do not remember what models and manufacturers actually provided the info (my notes are buried in the black hole masquerading as our basement storage area). Since average power is probably pretty low for most systems, and class A is mainly to reduce crossover distortion, I suspect few would actually notice in a blind test the difference between 1 W and 30 W of class A, but there are many other design factors at play. For example, there are likely more output devices to handle the higher class A bias, which should result in lower output impedance. How much that matters I could not say.

I can say the 100 W class A monoblocks that lived in my system long ago made great little space heaters. smile.gif

FWIWFM - Don

I double checked and it is indeed 35 watts in class A, sorry about the confusion. What Emotiva has done here is blurred the marketing line between calling it a High Bias class AB amp an a Class A amp. Since when running in the 35 watts class A it will switch to AB at anything above 35, it's not true class A in my opinion, but high bias as other company designs. I think Roger has it right. Emotiva may have a good product here but they should not go overboard in the marketing hype.

I'm not sure what the audible difference between class A and AB is, I think it's even and odd order harmonic distortion.
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