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CHEAP Sub

post #1 of 31
11/28/11 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
I am replacing my old (and not too good) Infinity TSS Sub450 (8"/100watt) with something inexpensive.

The two I am considering are;

Dayton Sub-120 from Parts Express
150 watt
12" Driver
25-180hz

Monoprice 12 from Monprice
150 watt
12" Driver
30-250hz

I am unfamiliar with the Monoprice but have heard good things about Dayton units. Any input would help me decide.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 31
11/28/11 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Also I found these (via this forum) that I would certainly consider;

Acoustic Audio RWSUB-10
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/p-377...eater-sub.aspx

NGX NX-PROSUB125
http://www.amazon.com/NXG-Technologi...=5336055023-20

And the original 2;

Dayton Audio 120
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-635

Monoprice 12
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

I have no clue which one I would prefer.

Room is 14x24x7 and sealed (Entertainment center is only half of it)
50/50 Music/Movies
Part of a 5.1 setup
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post #3 of 31
11/28/11 at 12:53pm
I have read a bit about the Dayton Audio 120, and from what I've read, it seems to be a good choice for the $100 price range. I've also read that it is muddy, and has limited definition. But I don't believe any sub will be without these flaws in this range. Doesn't mean these subs aren't good though, just flawed.

Is $100 your absolute budget? Or is there room to grow?
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post #4 of 31
11/28/11 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
$100 is really all I want to spend. I like my current sub actually but need a better sub for a 2.1 setup. I want to get a larger/more powerful sub for my 5.1 setup and then use my old sub for the 2.1 setup.

I don't even NEED a sub at this point but would like one as I am using a JBL computer sub for my 2.1 setup and I hate it.

Currently I have an Infinity TSS SUB450 which is a 100 watt, 8" little guy. I am confident that even $100 for one of the four aforementioned subs would be better than that. And I like that sub.

Meaning my standards aren't too high.

My 5.1 system contains;
Denon AVR 1312
Infinity P252 Fronts
Infinity PC250 Center
Jamo C400 SUR Dipolar Surrounds
Infinity TSS SUB450 TO BE REPLACED

My 2.1 system contains;
Sony STR-DG520
JBL ?? 5.25" Bookshelf Speakers
JBL Computer Sub (15 watts maybe...) TO BE TSS SUB450
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post #5 of 31
11/28/11 at 1:32pm
Ok, I get ya. I personally don't have experience with any of these subs, but from the little bit that I've read on the Dayton 120, it seems like this would be a sufficient upgrade. I'll see if I can find any more info on these subs to make a comparison, I'll probably be pretty bored at work tomorrow.
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post #6 of 31
11/28/11 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone else??
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post #7 of 31
11/28/11 at 5:07pm
Whatever you buy is going to get lost in your 2300^ room.
You'll have place that sub right near your LP. (imho)

If you could hold off and save you'll be much better off.
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post #8 of 31
11/28/11 at 5:18pm
are you located in ny?
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post #9 of 31
11/28/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Whatever you buy is going to get lost in your 2300^ room.
You'll have place that sub right near your LP. (imho)

If you could hold off and save you'll be much better off.

+1

I don't see that happening either.

The subs your looking at aren't often purchased by (most of) the people who frequent this forum, so you probably won't find a lot of information or owner reviews. I maintain a thread dedicated to budget subwoofers, and even I don't know a lot about any of the ones your considering. That's changing -- as I have been buying them myself so I can do a review -- but none of the ones you mentioned have been among them. Well, sort of...

The Acoustic Audio RWSUB-10 is just a generic mass-produced sub that other companies slap their name on too. It's identical to the products Theater Solutions sell. I did look at the larger variant, with a 12" driver, and posted a review here. You can take that info and step it down a notch and probably end up with an accurate description of the one you're looking at.

The NGX NX-PROSUB125 is on my short list, and will probably be looked at soon, but as of yet I haven't done anything with it. More than likely my next project will be the OSD PS10, primarily because they're an advertiser on this forum. OSD also sells the S10, which is close to your budget, so perhaps you can add that to your list as well.

If you're determined to get something now I would guess that Dayton is the best value of the lot. Just don't be surprised if the room swallows it up.
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post #10 of 31
11/28/11 at 6:54pm
Thread Starter 
My current 8" 100 watt Infinity is sometimes too loud. It rattles things on my walls. I have it placed in the very front right corner (only about 8" from the wall on the side and rear) to maximize its small size. It is about 12' from the listening position. SUB set to +2db (out of 10) on the Amp, BASS set to +4db (out of 6) on the Amp, and VOL set to 50% on the sub itself. Many times I turn to the SUB setting to 0db and the BASS setting to +2 because it is too loud.

I have been using HSU's 'room sizer' to determine what I what need size/power/spl wise. They list four 'loudness levels'
1 - Rooms up to 1500 cu.ft. - STF1 - 8" 150 watt
2 - Rooms up to 3000 cu.ft. - STF2/VTF1 - 10" 200 watt
3 - Rooms up to 4500 cu.ft. - VTF2 - 12" 250 watt
4 - Rooms up to 6000 cu.ft. - VTF3/VTF15/ULS - 12" 350 watt to 15" 1000 watt

I know HSU subs are very good but I don't see how a 12" 150 watt Dayton wouldn't be sufficient for appx. 2300 cu.ft. Especially coming from an 8" 100 watt Infinity that I currently find sufficient.

Only issue I find with my current sub is the low end. I believe it is only rated down to about 40hz. I want something under 40hz (25hz for the Dayton 12). 40hz and 100 watts from an 8" would be great for music as I find that the smaller the driver, the tighter the sound. More accuracy for things like drum kicks and bass guitar notes. Not explosions and car crashes and whatnot.

THIS is my current sub...
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ails/549100117
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post #11 of 31
11/28/11 at 7:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

are you located in ny?

Michigan
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post #12 of 31
11/28/11 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

I know HSU subs are very good but I don't see how a 12" 150 watt Dayton wouldn't be sufficient for appx. 2300 cu.ft. Especially coming from an 8" 100 watt Infinity that I currently find sufficient.

My room is about 1800 CF, and the 8" sub I had wasn't close to sufficient (not because it was a POS either). But everyone has a different definition of what's sufficient, so if you feel an 8" sub is good now then perhaps the Dayton will meet your expectations. The only way to really find out though is to pick one up and try it.
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post #13 of 31
11/28/11 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 
What would be the cheapest I could spend to get a good quality sub to fill my 2300 cu.ft. space then?

I am seeing stuff in the $150-$200 range that may be better...

Polk PSW505 - $180 from Newegg
Bic F12 - $190 from Amazon
Outlaw M8 - $175 from Outlaw

or others...
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post #14 of 31
11/28/11 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

My room is about 1800 CF, and the 8" sub I had wasn't close to sufficient (not because it was a POS either). But everyone has a different definition of what's sufficient, so if you feel an 8" sub is good now then perhaps the Dayton will meet your expectations. The only way to really find out though is to pick one up and try it.

Placement has worked to my advantage too. I tried several different places to get the most (not necessarily best) sound I could from the small sub I have. I have a 15' LFE cable and just moved the thing around. A nice little trick I have picked up is to put the sub in the desired seat and then move yourself around the room. I did this.

IF the Dayton goes in the same place, it will be plenty. IF I choose to move it away from the corner, I expect increased definition but decreased volume.

For $100 and 45 day return policy, I will likely just try it out. I am not going to stress over a $100 sub. I picked up my current Infinity TSS SUB450 for the freakishly low price of $85 3-4 years ago and have been satisfied. The Dayton is literally 50% more sub than that one.

100 watts vs. 150 watts
8" driver vs. 12" driver
39hz vs. 25hz (really the only part I find lacking on my current Infinity unit)
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post #15 of 31
11/29/11 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

Placement has worked to my advantage too. I tried several different places to get the most (not necessarily best) sound I could from the small sub I have. I have a 15' LFE cable and just moved the thing around. A nice little trick I have picked up is to put the sub in the desired seat and then move yourself around the room. I did this.

IF the Dayton goes in the same place, it will be plenty. IF I choose to move it away from the corner, I expect increased definition but decreased volume.

For $100 and 45 day return policy, I will likely just try it out. I am not going to stress over a $100 sub. I picked up my current Infinity TSS SUB450 for the freakishly low price of $85 3-4 years ago and have been satisfied. The Dayton is literally 50% more sub than that one.

100 watts vs. 150 watts
8" driver vs. 12" driver
39hz vs. 25hz (really the only part I find lacking on my current Infinity unit)

Testing it out is the best thing to do. I personally have the Bic F12, and have tested it against the PSW505. I found the Bic F12 performed better in my situation, by sounding less boomy and more defined. Others choose the PSW505 for the exact same reasons why I chose the F12, but in favor of the 505. It's all relative.

I can say though, that going from an 8" to the Dayton 12", with those relative specs shown, you should be happy with the upgrade. You may not need to up the budget, and may be satisfied with it.
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post #16 of 31
11/29/11 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

What would be the cheapest I could spend to get a good quality sub to fill my 2300 cu.ft. space then?

I am seeing stuff in the $150-$200 range that may be better...

Polk PSW505 - $180 from Newegg
Bic F12 - $190 from Amazon
Outlaw M8 - $175 from Outlaw

Were it me I would select them in the order you listed. The Polk and BIC are like 1a and 1b though, so I doubt you'd be unhappy with either. The Outlaw, while a good sub, is probably not going to provide the output of the aforementioned 12" subs, so that might not be a good alternative.
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post #17 of 31
11/29/11 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

My current 8" 100 watt Infinity is sometimes too loud. It rattles things on my walls. I have it placed in the very front right corner (only about 8" from the wall on the side and rear) to maximize its small size. It is about 12' from the listening position. SUB set to +2db (out of 10) on the Amp, BASS set to +4db (out of 6) on the Amp, and VOL set to 50% on the sub itself. Many times I turn to the SUB setting to 0db and the BASS setting to +2 because it is too loud.

I have been using HSU's 'room sizer' to determine what I what need size/power/spl wise. They list four 'loudness levels'
1 - Rooms up to 1500 cu.ft. - STF1 - 8" 150 watt
2 - Rooms up to 3000 cu.ft. - STF2/VTF1 - 10" 200 watt
3 - Rooms up to 4500 cu.ft. - VTF2 - 12" 250 watt
4 - Rooms up to 6000 cu.ft. - VTF3/VTF15/ULS - 12" 350 watt to 15" 1000 watt

I know HSU subs are very good but I don't see how a 12" 150 watt Dayton wouldn't be sufficient for appx. 2300 cu.ft. Especially coming from an 8" 100 watt Infinity that I currently find sufficient.

Only issue I find with my current sub is the low end. I believe it is only rated down to about 40hz. I want something under 40hz (25hz for the Dayton 12). 40hz and 100 watts from an 8" would be great for music as I find that the smaller the driver, the tighter the sound. More accuracy for things like drum kicks and bass guitar notes. Not explosions and car crashes and whatnot.

THIS is my current sub...
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ails/549100117

That "smaller driver, the tighter..." stuff is a myth ie it's bogus.
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post #18 of 31
11/29/11 at 9:37am
Thread Starter 
You would just have to spend more to get a 10 or 12 to be as tight and defined as a less expensive 8. Something with stiffer surrounds and a stiffer cone.

Made of the same/similar material, the 8 will be tighter and more defined than a 10 or 12.

Say 8" paper cone with foam surround vs. 12" paper cone with foam surround.

BUT maybe;
8" paper cone with foam surround vs. 12" aluminum cone with rubber surround.
That would change things...
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post #19 of 31
11/29/11 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

You would just have to spend more to get a 10 or 12 to be as tight and defined as a less expensive 8. Something with stiffer surrounds and a stiffer cone.

Made of the same/similar material, the 8 will be tighter and more defined than a 10 or 12.

Say 8" paper cone with foam surround vs. 12" paper cone with foam surround.

BUT maybe;
8" paper cone with foam surround vs. 12" aluminum cone with rubber surround.
That would change things...

You're mis-informed. The only difference between rubber and foam is A) weight and B) maybe durability.

You're quoting hype and not facts.

We're off topic.

The bic or polk will likely serve if you keep your expections inline with your budget.
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post #20 of 31
11/29/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

you're mis-informed. The only difference between rubber and foam is a) weight and b) maybe durability.

You're quoting hype and not facts.

We're off topic.

The bic or polk will likely serve if you keep your expections inline with your budget.

+1
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post #21 of 31
11/29/11 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

I have been using HSU's 'room sizer' to determine what I what need size/power/spl wise. They list four 'loudness levels'
1 - Rooms up to 1500 cu.ft. - STF1 - 8" 150 watt
2 - Rooms up to 3000 cu.ft. - STF2/VTF1 - 10" 200 watt
3 - Rooms up to 4500 cu.ft. - VTF2 - 12" 250 watt
4 - Rooms up to 6000 cu.ft. - VTF3/VTF15/ULS - 12" 350 watt to 15" 1000 watt

I know HSU subs are very good but I don't see how a 12" 150 watt Dayton wouldn't be sufficient for appx. 2300 cu.ft. Especially coming from an 8" 100 watt Infinity that I currently find sufficient.

I really wish HSU would remove that "loudness" ranking system from their website. They literally border on ridiculous and is just a marketing ploy, sounds like something you'd see on a BOSE advertisement. My room is 1700to1800 cubes, so I'd read that to indicate that an STF1-8" would therefore be "almost" all I need, and a VTF1 would be overkill per that chart.

As for the OP, don't go with that Monoprice thingy. Seeing as you've gone from $100 to $200, I'd probably scour audiogon.com, and wait for something to pop up in that price range. I'd imagine one of the 10" or possibly 12" (doubtful) HSU subs will come up at some point.

Actually, just buy this...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=303-436

Probably you're best bet as a "new" sub at $200 and shipped.
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post #22 of 31
11/29/11 at 3:08pm
actually, it's $11 cheaper on amazon..

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1...2607934&sr=8-1
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post #23 of 31
11/30/11 at 6:05am
+1 for the Bic F12. I thoroughly compared the Bic F12 to the Polk PSW505 before keeping the one I liked. I found the F12 to sound better for my needs. The Polk sounded muddier, and didn't seem as responsive as the F12. I watch alot of movies, and love LFE, so the F12 was a good fit, within my budget. I didn't need a very musical subwoofer, because I have very capable towers, so the Bic does well filling in the low points of my music. Also, the F12 has a lot less port noise than the Polk did.

But to be honest, you can find people making the same claims about the Polk being better than the F12. It's all preferences. If I would've only picked up one of these subs, without hearing the other, I still would've been satisfied with the buy.

As of right now, the Bic F12 is cheaper than the Polk PSW505. The Polk does have more power, but I found the higher volumes unusable due to muddying and port noise. Both will be an upgrade over your current sub. Just don't expect super tight bass with ported budget subs.
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post #24 of 31
11/30/11 at 6:37am
I haven't heard the other subs that have been mentioned, but I do have two Dayton sub 120's and I am happy with how they sound for the money. I have them in my main living room which is open to the rest of the house. I do have a dedicated theater room with three 15" subs that I gage how the Dayton's sound. I don't think you can go wrong with it. My two cents.
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post #25 of 31
11/30/11 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

I haven't heard the other subs that have been mentioned, but I do have two Dayton sub 120's and I am happy with how they sound for the money. I have them in my main living room which is open to the rest of the house. I do have a dedicated theater room with three 15" subs that I gage how the Dayton's sound. I don't think you can go wrong with it. My two cents.

How is the frequency response for the Dayton sub 120? How is it with LFE?
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post #26 of 31
11/30/11 at 7:19am
In my living room as open as it is to the rest of the house I think they sound good for music and movies both. I am not a bass head by any means. My living room sits over a crawl space so the Daytons transfer alot of seat of the pants energy through the floor. They are fun!
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post #27 of 31
11/30/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

In my living room as open as it is to the rest of the house I think they sound good for music and movies both. I am not a bass head by any means. My living room sits over a crawl space so the Daytons transfer alot of seat of the pants energy through the floor. They are fun!

Awesome, sounds worthy of a $100 bill. I'm curious to hear these things now.
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post #28 of 31
12/1/11 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

Awesome, sounds worthy of a $100 bill. I'm curious to hear these things now.

I just got mine in the mail yesterday...

The thing is so heavy my wife couldn't even bring it inside. 49lbs is the weight of it. For a 12" 150 watt sub I think is quite impressive.

Won't have it hooked up for a bit since it is supposed to be a Christmas present...
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post #29 of 31
12/1/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoGT1 View Post

I just got mine in the mail yesterday...

The thing is so heavy my wife couldn't even bring it inside. 49lbs is the weight of it. For a 12" 150 watt sub I think is quite impressive.

Won't have it hooked up for a bit since it is supposed to be a Christmas present...

Haha. I feel your pain. I made the mistake of putting things I want now, on my christmas list to my fiancee. She can't buy me all the things, but I have no idea what she will, so I screwed myself up. Let me know how it sounds when you get to hear it!
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post #30 of 31
12/1/11 at 1:47pm
I found this Polk PSW10 on amazon.com for $99. It won't get you the ultra low end, but it will be an incredible all around sub woofer for the money. It will probably not be as muddy as all these other subs in the same price range, but read the reviews for further insight..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846
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