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JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project - Page 5

post #121 of 390
Thread Starter 
Here's my initial lamp measurement:

1) 2011-12-10 date of measurement
2) RS45
3) service menu (source of 100IRE screen)
4) 17 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively (99%)
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 30min warm-up before measurement
9) 767 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)

I set the projector to cinema mode and did a "Reset" from the picture menu before I called up the service menu to display the white screen.

By the way, I have noticed that everyone so far has posted their measurement in lumens. I just wanted to point out that if anyone is unable to use the spreadsheet to convert lux to lumens, you can just report your measurement in lux. As long as you don't change your screen size during the next 6 months of the project, lux is as good as lumens for tracking lamp dimming. (also, if you want to post in lux but are curious about lumens, just include your screen size diagonal and aspect ratio, and I will compute the lumens for you)
post #122 of 390
Thread Starter 
zombie10k found something interesting on his RS50. After less than 400 hours, the glass surface where the light from the lamp enters the projector appears to be covered with a foggy residue. He was able to clean the residue off with camera lens cleaner.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21327114


I think that will be one of the first things to check if anyone's lamp brightness has dropped a lot in the next few months.
post #123 of 390
Ok, i am in too
1) RS45

2) The projector will come between 18 and 20 Dec. First measurement in early january.

3) Light meter : Mastech LX1330B
thanks.
post #124 of 390
Hi folks,

Throw me into the list and will start posting in January.

Steven
post #125 of 390
I'm in as well. Have a new rs-55 coming my way late next week.
post #126 of 390
I will participate
post #127 of 390
Here are my initial Standard CP readings at 16.7ft throw D65 & open aperture on to my 110" Seymour AT screen and using Jim's updated Lux => Lumens calculator:

1) 2011-12-11 date of measurement
2) RS55
3) AVS HD709 disc (100IRE screen)
4) 3 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively (except 3D)
6) Normal lamp during measurement
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 60min warm-up before measurement
9) 532 (159.5 Lux) ANSI lumens normal (center peak - 557) 9-point reading using Mastech LX1330B meter
10) 827 (248 Lux) ANSI Lumens High (center peak - 917)
11) THX mode - 583/947 respectively
post #128 of 390
Jim2100 - bit of a dilemma here for you, though probably not end of world type dilemma.

I've had my RS45 on for a total of 8ish hours for testing, etc. Was about to take initial readings so I could get some sub-10 hours when I realized I will be moving the PJ in about a week or two to its final position (it is temporarily set up on a table projecting onto a wall while I finish my screen frame, etc).

Dilemma is as follows - I can take initial readings now for your project at the current setup, throw, etc, at the ~10 hour mark for the initial readings, but any future measurements will be done under a different throw and zoom. I imagine this is not great for comparison purposes.

Alternatively, I can get you "initial" readings once the PJ is in its final spot, though those readings would be done at probably 15-25 hours on the bulb, so not quite brand new bulb readings.

Thoughts/preferences? for pure comparison purposes, I imagine the second option is the best, though neither are ideal.

Rukus
post #129 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

Dilemma is as follows - I can take initial readings now for your project at the current setup, throw, etc, at the ~10 hour mark for the initial readings, but any future measurements will be done under a different throw and zoom. I imagine this is not great for comparison purposes.

Alternatively, I can get you "initial" readings once the PJ is in its final spot, though those readings would be done at probably 15-25 hours on the bulb, so not quite brand new bulb readings.

I guess this sort of situation will come up more than once over the next 6 months.

I think the best thing is to take readings just before and just after the change in setup. That way we can see if there is a large effect from the change, and correct for it if necessary, since if the bulb hours are almost the same in the two measurements, we can assume that any difference in measured brightness is due to changes other than the bulb. That allows us to compute a correction factor from the change in setup, and apply that to all measurements prior to the change.

In your case, if you don't have time to make a couple extra measurements, then you could just wait until the projector is moved into its new setup.

But if you have time, the best would be to do a measurement now, then another measurement just before you move the projector into its new setup, then another measurement immediately after the move.
post #130 of 390
It might not be a bad idea to add to the specs:
  • Type and size of screen
  • Room environment (bat cave, dark walls, light/white walls)

Would help others with the same env variables to compare.
post #131 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

3) AVS HD709 disc (100IRE screen)

Krichter1:
Where is the 100IRE screen on the HD709 menu? I don't remember seeing it.
post #132 of 390
1) Date: 12/13/2011
2) Model: RS45
3) Source of white field: w6rz
4) 7 hours on lamp
5) Normal lamp used almost exclusively
6) Normal lamp during measurement (Cinema picture mode after a reset)
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 50-min warm-up before measurement
9) 748 lumens measured (9-point technique, LX1010B meter)

Additional info: 16:9 screen. 114". Throw distance 14 ft.
post #133 of 390
1) 2011-12-13
2) RS45
3) service menu (source of 100IRE screen)
4) 4 hours on lamp
5) Primarily normal lamp mode but not exclusive
6) Est 90% normal, 10% high usage
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 60 min warm-up before measurement
9) 354 lux (factory Natural settings), 560 lux (factory 3d settings) (both are single-point max reading at center w/ LX1330b)

* NOTE: Temporary setup with a 100" diagonal 16:9 image at short end of throw. Final setup will vary slightly in throw - I will post an updated measurement once mounted permanently this weekend.

When I converted these numbers, they seem too high compared to other reports (975 and 1543 lumens respectively) but I am pretty sure of the raw lux numbers. Can somebody please sanity check me? I'll re-measure the next time I have the projector on to ensure I did not transcribe the numbers wrong.


Edit: Room / Screen Info:
13x20' room, light walls (for now), black carpet and ceiling
111x47" studiotec 130 screen (only using 16:9 image during measurements)
UH380 anamorphic lens (not used during measurements)
Final mount will be approx 16-17' throw - will measure once mounted (this test was about 11-12' throw)
post #134 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

I guess this sort of situation will come up more than once over the next 6 months.

I think the best thing is to take readings just before and just after the change in setup. That way we can see if there is a large effect from the change, and correct for it if necessary, since if the bulb hours are almost the same in the two measurements, we can assume that any difference in measured brightness is due to changes other than the bulb. That allows us to compute a correction factor from the change in setup, and apply that to all measurements prior to the change.

In your case, if you don't have time to make a couple extra measurements, then you could just wait until the projector is moved into its new setup.

But if you have time, the best would be to do a measurement now, then another measurement just before you move the projector into its new setup, then another measurement immediately after the move.

Ok, will try and do all three for you.

Rukus
post #135 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by msamblanet View Post

9) 354 lux (factory Natural settings), 560 lux (factory 3d settings) (both are single-point max reading at center w/ LX1330b)

* NOTE: Temporary setup with a 100" diagonal 16:9 image at short end of throw. Final setup will vary slightly in throw - I will post an updated measurement once mounted permanently this weekend.

When I converted these numbers, they seem too high compared to other reports (975 and 1543 lumens respectively) but I am pretty sure of the raw lux numbers. Can somebody please sanity check me?

Edit: Room / Screen Info:
13x20' room, light walls (for now), black carpet and ceiling
111x47" studiotec 130 screen (only using 16:9 image during measurements)

Well, as coderguy linked to earlier, even some more expensive meters talk about 20% accuracy, so I would not be too worried unless your numbers are more than 20% off from others. You could try cinema instead of natural to see if it makes a difference.

Also, how did you get 100"?

If your 2.35 screen is 47" tall (call it y), then the horizontal measurement (x) is 47*16/9 = 83.6. Then your diagonal is sqrt(x^2+y^2) = 95.9

Then, with 354 lux and 95.9" diagonal at 16:9, I calculate 897 lumens. I measured 816 lumens (peak center measurement, the 9-point measurement was a little lower at 767) for my RS45 in cinema mode and LX1010B meter, which is a 10% difference from your measurement. I can certainly believe that the different mode and different meter could account for 10% difference (and your lamp could just be a little brighter, also).
post #136 of 390
I am currently overshooting the top/bottom of the screen slightly which is how I got 100" of image (not all on the screen). Will be tightened once the projector gets mounted.
post #137 of 390
My RS45 Experience - Part 1

Upgrading from a Panasonic PT-AE700 to an RS45, the first shock is the size of the projector. I don't have the exact measurements, but the RS45 is probably 4-6 times more volume than the PT, and of course much heavier too.

After hooking up all the cables on a standard "shipping box" mount, I fired it up and had to wait. My initial reaction was of course that this thing is DOA, but eventually the D-ILA logo showed up. The start-up time is little bit short afterwards (going from standby) but definitely cannot beat the instantaneous startup my old Panasonic had.

Matching the picture to my screen required some manual reading. The manual frankly is not easy to navigate, unnecessarily thick by being multi-lingual and covering all 3 JVC projectors (45, 55 & 65). Coming from the Panasonic where I had to fight with a knob standing on a ladder to align the screen, the remote-controlled controls on the RS45 were a pleasure to use. Didn’t take long here to get an almost centered picture (since this is temporary) and perfect focus.

My initial viewing was focused on TV (I have Dish). The HD channels looked stunning specially the colorful ones like the softy video movies of Lifetime. "Grown-ups" was also playing on Straz and it was amazing. I changed the output on my receiver (a Denon 4311) to de-interlace the signal (to 1080p), and the picture quality was even better. The SD channels quality varied but overall was nothing special to write home about (personally, don't watch SD material at all).

I played here with the Picture modes and frankly at this point, I don't like anyone of them (Natural settings is the one I prefer so far). I will eventually create my custom setting(s) which seems to be very easy to do with the JVC (I think there are probably 7 slots for custom settings).

As mentioned many times, the brightness and contrast are amazing. To control the brightness, I just dialed-down the iris from 0 to -10 (can go to -15). Dialing down contrast was more challenging. Using the AVS contrast pattern (on the avs calibration disc), I was unable to get it right: even by dialing down the contrast all the way to the end, I still could not get the flashing bars above 235. Need to dig later to see if this is related to the RS34 clipping whites or something else. For the time being, the picture is just too "contrasty" which probably is not a bad thing (down the road when the lamp starts fading...).

Convergence was almost perfect. Entire screen is spot-on except the top-left corner with less than a pixel mis-convergence (vertical red). If I fix it, the defect moves to the bottom of the screen. Just learned here that there is no perfect convergence.

Switching to bluray movies, I watched several types (Planet Earth, Fifth Element, Toy Story, Tangled, Bladerunner) and in all cases, amazing picture. Clarity and vividness of colors was amazing. As I mentioned above, minor calibration is still needed to control specially the brightness and contrast; colors and skin tones (to my eyes at least) looked perfect.

I have a 46” Sony LED that I use mostly for 3D and gaming mounted to the wall to the right of the screen, so it is easy to compare. Feeding the same input to the RS45 and the Sony (receiver has dual HDMI outs) shows a very similar picture. There is a slight edge to the Sony of course (can’t beat the backlighting) but comparing to what I had before with the Panasonic, it is day and night.

I decided to try regular DVDs and popped in (randomly) Enchanted. A minute into it, my wife walked in, sat and watched silently. After a few minutes, she commented "that is what I call a Projector". We ended up watching the entire movie!!! My wife absolutely hates repeating movies and this was a first!!

I'll cover in a separate post my mounting and 3D experiences.
post #138 of 390
Meant really to post the above in the main rs45 thread. Sorry.
post #139 of 390
Sign me up. I'll be installing my RS45 this weekend. Don't have a meter yet but will pick one up shortly.
post #140 of 390
Thread Starter 
We are now up to 46 participants in the JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project. But it would be good if we can get even more!

So, if you now have, or expect to have by the end of January 2012, a new 2011-2012 model JVC projector, please sign up now! Just reply to this thread, or PM me to sign up.

Sign-up deadline: Friday, 16th December

The measurements should only take a few minutes of your time each month.

If you don't have a light meter, you can order a cheap one online. See post #7 for recommendations.
post #141 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

We are now up to 46 participants in the JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project. But it would be good if we can get even more!

So, if you now have, or expect to have by the end of January 2012, a new 2011-2012 model JVC projector, please sign up now! Just reply to this thread, or PM me to sign up.

Sign-up deadline: Friday, 16th December

The measurements should only take a few minutes of your time each month.

If you don't have a light meter, you can order a cheap one online. See post #7 for recommendations.

Jim, add me in.
post #142 of 390
This is my remeasure after mounting - I recommend using these for my baseline measurement

1) 2011-12-16 - Remeasure after mounting
2) RS45
3) service menu (source of 100IRE screen)
4) 12 hours on lamp
5) Primarily normal lamp mode but not exclusive
6) Est 90% normal, 10% high usage
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 60 min warm-up before measurement
9) 325 lux (factory Natural settings) [823 lumens]

Throw distance = 16' (TR = 2.3)
111x47" studiotec 130 screen (only using 16:9 image during measurements)
13x20' room, light walls (for now), black carpet and ceiling
UH380 anamorphic lens (not used during measurements)

FYI - after taking a couple test readings at high mode, I dropped it from my measurements - I was getting inconsistent readings (about 10-15% spread) and I suspect it is from me not leaving it on high long enough to stabilize…for the purposes of this project, the low-only numbers should be sufficient…
post #143 of 390
My measurements are as follows:

1. 12/19/11
2. JVC RS-45
3. 100IRE Internal test pattern on RS-45
4. 18 Hours on lamp
5. Normal lamp primarily used; high lamp used occasionally for 3D viewing
6. measurement taken with normal lamp
7. lens aperture set to 0
8. measurements taken approximately 40 minutes after warm up
9. 907 lumens using center screen measurement method
post #144 of 390
1) 2011-12-26
2) RS45
3) 100IRE Internal test pattern
4) 33 hours on lamp
5) Mostly normal lamp mode
6) Normal
7) 0 aperture during measurement
8) 120 min warm-up before measurement
9) 220 lux single-point max reading at center with el cheapo LX1010B
post #145 of 390
Finally got my first measurements done (in temp setup for now) at 19 hours on the lamp:

1. 12/27/2011
2. RS45
3. Internal test pattern
4. 19 hours on lamp
5. 100% normal (man I should test high huh??)
6. Measurements taken in normal lamp mode
7. Lens aperture at -13
8. 45 minute warm-up time
9. 660 lumens (242 lux) average across 9 points, 710 lumens (262 lux) at the center

Used LX1330B meter at 1.4 throw ratio (86.5" wide image @ 121.5" throw distance). Measured facing the PJ since I am currently temporarily projecting onto a white wall. Light walls, ceilings, and floor for now.

Just realized everyone else has been taking at 0 lens aperture setting. Oh well, I will continue to do mine at -13 for the measurements.
post #146 of 390
I would suggest we at least added what picture mode/profile people are using when they are taking the measurement. This would at least help the people who retake the measurements to remember which one to measure. There are quite big variations between different picture mode/profile.
post #147 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

Finally got my first measurements done (in temp setup for now) at 19 hours on the lamp:

1. 12/27/2011
2. RS45
3. Internal test pattern
4. 19 hours on lamp
5. 100% normal (man I should test high huh??)
6. Measurements taken in normal lamp mode
7. Lens aperture at -13
8. 45 minute warm-up time
9. 660 lumens (242 lux) average across 9 points, 710 lumens (262 lux) at the center

Used LX1330B meter at 1.4 throw ratio (86.5" wide image @ 121.5" throw distance). Measured facing the PJ since I am currently temporarily projecting onto a white wall. Light walls, ceilings, and floor for now.

Just realized everyone else has been taking at 0 lens aperture setting. Oh well, I will continue to do mine at -13 for the measurements.

Wor.. -13 AP and you got around 700 lumens on NORMAL lamp... Can you tell me which picture mode/profile you set to? With 0 AP and with HIGH lamp, you can easily get double... (1400 lumens?? higher than JVC published??). Sorry, I am not challenging your method, but this just seems really high, but i guess that's a good thing
post #148 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Wor.. -13 AP and you got around 700 lumens on NORMAL lamp... Can you tell me which picture mode/profile you set to? With 0 AP and with HIGH lamp, you can easily get double... (1400 lumens?? higher than JVC published??). Sorry, I am not challenging your method, but this just seems really high, but i guess that's a good thing

I am at work so don't have the settings in front of me - I can post them later tonight. But I should point out in the meantime that I was at minimum throw. Do you think the white walls/ceiling/floor add a bit as well?
post #149 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

I am at work so don't have the settings in front of me - I can post them later tonight. But I should point out in the meantime that I was at minimum throw. Do you think the white walls/ceiling/floor add a bit as well?

I assume you are measuring facing the projector, so there really should not be any reflections... or you are measuring facing the screen?? (and you might have a high-gain screen??)
post #150 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I assume you are measuring facing the projector, so there really should not be any reflections... or you are measuring facing the screen?? (and you might have a high-gain screen??)

There can be reflections from the room, even when measuring facing the projector.

There are so many variables involved, be a little careful comparing one persons measured values to another (or even to the spec). What's more useful is how one persons values change over time.
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