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JVC 2011-2012 lamp measurement project - Page 13

post #361 of 390
Hello
For those that finally got to the "flapper" or "fin" version of these models' lamps, and have put some real hours on them, is there any consensus they hold their brightness in a more normal fashion than the first couple of versions?

Thanks!
post #362 of 390
Bump....anyone please? Am trying to get information for someone wanting to buy an RS50. I need to know if the last generation of the lamp with the flapper seems to be more normal in its brightness cycle. Was there ever any consensus, or even instances where at least some people were having much better results than the first bad batches?
post #363 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Bump....anyone please? Am trying to get information for someone wanting to buy an RS50. I need to know if the last generation of the lamp with the flapper seems to be more normal in its brightness cycle. Was there ever any consensus, or even instances where at least some people were having much better results than the first bad batches?

I have about 600 hours on mine and don't notice any significant dimming. However, that is gut feel as I don't own a light meter.
post #364 of 390
Why is this thread so DEAD? I don't understand...
I wish I can help but I too have reached 600 hours on my bulb and it looks plenty bright to me still.
I watch movies with brightness at between -8 and -6. I am however in a man cave too.
post #365 of 390
Is that a "003" bulb with flapper?

I think it might be good news that this thread is quiet, it might mean that the 003 bulbs are not exhibiting the same issues. My 003 with flapper is up around 300 hours and the measured brightness is still as it was new.

I will continue to measure my unit from time to time and will post results - but since Jim (the OP) doesn't seem to be managing this project any more I will only post if I notice a problem or when I hit some cardinal number of hours (500, 750, 1000, etc.)

Paul
post #366 of 390
As I said above, my 003 with flapper seems to be holding up well after about 600 hours. However, my problem is that the color seems to shift after about 45 minutes. It goes from what looks like a perfect color balance with a little bit of a cool look to it to an unbalanced color look where the picture takes on a slight warm look to it. In my eyes the warm look makes the picture take on a brownish hue to it. Not a lot but enough to make the picture borderline unacceptable.

Anyone else experience this?
post #367 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

As I said above, my 003 with flapper seems to be holding up well after about 600 hours. However, my problem is that the color seems to shift after about 45 minutes. It goes from what looks like a perfect color balance with a little bit of a cool look to it to an unbalanced color look where the picture takes on a slight warm look to it. In my eyes the warm look makes the picture take on a brownish hue to it. Not a lot but enough to make the picture borderline unacceptable.

Anyone else experience this?

Never here. Thank goodness biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif But then I have never projected with the (003?) flapper/finned thingy lamp smile.gif
post #368 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkarmouche View Post

Is that a "003" bulb with flapper?

I believe it is. I did not open my RS45 to check the bulb.
Quote:
I will continue to measure my unit from time to time and will post results - but since Jim (the OP) doesn't seem to be managing this project any more I will only post if I notice a problem or when I hit some cardinal number of hours (500, 750, 1000, etc.)

Paul

That's the thing.

I've only seen 1 person quote he was at 3000hrs on his bulb.
I can't even count on 1 hand how many posted past 1000hrs. We need more participants putting up their hours of use so far so everyone can see.
That's all I'd like. Maybe I'm asking too much?

Kind regards,
post #369 of 390
Since this is geared toward the RS45, ect, and I have an RS40 I couldn't participate.

Having read through, I can't tell if users are seeing the same level of failure in the RS45 as RS40 users had. Reports of dimming yes, but how about failure like the RS40 had?

Did this project track what series lamp was being used? Did the RS45 ship with the newer 003 lamps?

What I am trying to get at is if the RS45 had less lamp failure than the RS40, and if this was a result of newer lamps shipping with them, or something else inherent in the design?

I posted something similar in the RS45 owners thread, but this seemed like a good place to check since it is a study of the RS45 lamps.
post #370 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post


I can't even count on 1 hand how many posted past 1000hrs. We need more participants putting up their hours of use so far so everyone can see.
That's all I'd like. Maybe I'm asking too much?

Kind regards,

I'm at about 900 hours, the lamp has dimmed more than a normal projector for sure, but on a 106" HP screen it's still bright enough for the most part. Though the biggest problem at this point with a 900 hour lamp is more so calibrated lumens. I can still get 16 fL to 20 fL or so using the Cinema preset with minor adjustments, but after I calibrate it I get less. If I were using a NON-HP screen, I'd be wanting more brightness, that said I am not getting full gain either, only about 1.6 gain or so where the JVC is currently mounted. I am also at farthest throw, if I moved the projector lower and closer it would still be plenty bright. I'm pretty sure I'll make it past 1000 hours on this lamp, if I can find a way to move it closer (nearly impossible in my setup), might make 2000 hours. I've run the lamp in high-alt mode most of the time and on normal (not high). This is on the original 002 lamp I believe (although didn't open to look), but I have an extra lamp which I can use eventually if I want.

Best chance of lamp longevity is to use an HP screen, run lamp in high-alt mode, etc...
post #371 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I'm at about 900 hours, the lamp has dimmed more than a normal projector for sure, but on a 106" HP screen it's still bright enough for the most part. Though the biggest problem at this point with a 900 hour lamp is more so calibrated lumens. I can still get 16 fL to 20 fL or so using the Cinema preset with minor adjustments, but after I calibrate it I get less. If I were using a NON-HP screen, I'd be wanting more brightness, that said I am not getting full gain either, only about 1.6 gain or so where the JVC is currently mounted. I am also at farthest throw, if I moved the projector lower and closer it would still be plenty bright. I'm pretty sure I'll make it past 1000 hours on this lamp, if I can find a way to move it closer (nearly impossible in my setup), might make 2000 hours. I've run the lamp in high-alt mode most of the time and on normal (not high). This is on the original 002 lamp I believe (although didn't open to look), but I have an extra lamp which I can use eventually if I want.

Best chance of lamp longevity is to use an HP screen, run lamp in high-alt mode, etc...


Thanks for the info!

And you have RS40 or RS45?

I have a 1.1 gain screen, minimum throw to a 100" screen. The new 003 was REALLY bright, but in 100 hours has a dimmed a bit. I think that is pretty normal for lamp break-in and honestly in my room a little less brightness helps.
Then the 003 lamp was new, with iris at 0 and lamp mode normal I could get about 14 fL. Calibrated with the iris down to -12 was around 7. This was in user1 mode....never tried it in the high/bright modes. Thats about as high as I could get with the 002 lamp....which died after 450 hours.....just got so dark everything was a night scene!

I have to pull green WAY down to get this thing calibrated (like -40) so I am sure that is not helping. Just seems these lamps lack red more than others.

Measurements were done with an i1pro , and I did once check it with an i1LT for the heck of it....same result.
post #372 of 390
I have the JVC RS-45 (x30)

Yah, my JVC also has too much green which results in a yellow tint in some scenes to the image, mostly in scenes that are pre-disposed to yellow tinting.
I just live with the off-color for extra brightness for now, I might re-calibrate again later. The JVC has gamut issues is the main cause.

You can try calibrating Wide mode gamut or use Natural or Film instead of Cinema, as you get a little more RED out of some of those modes, but WIDE will be oversaturated but as the lamp gets older a calibrated Wide gamut (even without external CMS) might actually look better, since BRIGHTER is better and the JVC gamut isn't accurate anyhow. The Rs-45 isn't the most color accurate projector, it could really benefit from a CMS. You could try using an HTPC - CMS to fix it and get more brightness.
post #373 of 390
If anyone is looking to add spare bulbs PM me, I have two of the new design available.
post #374 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Rs-45 isn't the most color accurate projector, it could really benefit from a CMS. You could try using an HTPC - CMS to fix it and get more brightness.

Isn't the other issue with JVC's how quickly it goes out of calibration, compared to other brands/techs?

Especially the gamma?

Is the reason due to the type/brand of lamps they've used or the Lcos panels?

To me, who is not one that enjoys the calibration process, it's one of the top reasons I've been hesitant to go JVC (along with lamp dimming issues).
post #375 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I have the JVC RS-45 (x30)

Yah, my JVC also has too much green which results in a yellow tint in some scenes to the image, mostly in scenes that are pre-disposed to yellow tinting.
I just live with the off-color for extra brightness for now, I might re-calibrate again later. The JVC has gamut issues is the main cause.

You can try calibrating Wide mode gamut or use Natural or Film instead of Cinema, as you get a little more RED out of some of those modes, but WIDE will be oversaturated but as the lamp gets older a calibrated Wide gamut (even without external CMS) might actually look better, since BRIGHTER is better and the JVC gamut isn't accurate anyhow. The Rs-45 isn't the most color accurate projector, it could really benefit from a CMS. You could try using an HTPC - CMS to fix it and get more brightness.

I actually have it dialed in pretty well. All de's under 2 and gamma as flat as I have been able to get....a little too high on the low end, and little too low at the high end, but still not losing shadow detail or hurting contrast. I used user 1 and the normal mode and the gamut is pretty good all dots in the squares, maybe not perfectly centered but darn close. Image is fantastic, no tint at all.....I just meant in order to get it that dialed in I had to cut green a lot.
post #376 of 390

I have a RS2 and an RS 35U averaged 2000 hours :(  

 

I wish JVC would use LEDs I am not looking to buy new bulbs evry year and new projectors every three years!!

post #377 of 390
I am hoping (and I am sure I am not alone) that somebody steps in an makes an LED replacement and we can use CMS to calibrate and be done with bulbs. If I have any more troubles with JVC I will most likely sell my stuff and wait for LED or laser to mature and re-enter the market then.
post #378 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletrax View Post

I am hoping (and I am sure I am not alone) that somebody steps in an makes an LED replacement and we can use CMS to calibrate and be done with bulbs. If I have any more troubles with JVC I will most likely sell my stuff and wait for LED or laser to mature and re-enter the market then.

I bought the 67" Samsung LED powered rear screen projection unit when it first came out about four years ago. Had it calibrated by an ISF pro shortly after. Today the brightness is still the same and the colors have not moved a degree, to my eye. LED is the answer. That being said however, with 4K coming along, by the time a long life bulb wears out the new technology will be the step to take.
post #379 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletrax View Post

I am hoping (and I am sure I am not alone) that somebody steps in an makes an LED replacement and we can use CMS to calibrate and be done with bulbs. If I have any more troubles with JVC I will most likely sell my stuff and wait for LED or laser to mature and re-enter the market then.

The other issue about lamps is they need to be re-calibrated as they aged so 450 per lamp + 500 for calibration  :(

post #380 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

I actually have it dialed in pretty well. All de's under 2 and gamma as flat as I have been able to get....a little too high on the low end, and little too low at the high end, but still not losing shadow detail or hurting contrast. I used user 1 and the normal mode and the gamut is pretty good all dots in the squares, maybe not perfectly centered but darn close. Image is fantastic, no tint at all.....I just meant in order to get it that dialed in I had to cut green a lot.

Did you check saturation tracking, this is the most problematic thing on the JVC, it usually yields worse results at different sat points. You must have gotten a lucky sample for color, yah I imagine there is some variance to the gamuts on these. On mine, the green gamut is over-saturated and the blue luminance can never be fixed correctly. By eye it always appears there is too much red or green and not enough blue, no matter what I do, if I fight for too perfect for RED or GREEN balance, then blue gets hurt worse, so I have to concede things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman 
Isn't the other issue with JVC's how quickly it goes out of calibration, compared to other brands/techs?

Especially the gamma?

Yes, the gamma is a pain, that is why some have bought the Chromapure Auto-Cal packages for the Lumagen.

If comparing to projectors 5+ years ago, the JVC has ok color, it's not as bad as some projectors used to be. However, when A/B'n to modern projectors, like the Benq, Viewsonic, or Mits, then you can clearly see the JVC has color issues no matter how much calibration you do. The gamut cannot be calibrated because it does not have a CMS, and a Lumagen can only fix certain aspects because even the wide gamut is not completely over-saturated at all sat tracking points, so you win some you lose some when it comes to the color of the JVC. More importantly, out of all the recent projectors I have owned, the JVC has one of the worst OOTB color as far as accuracy goes. You really have to crank green down and by that time you lose a lot of lumens.

The JVC color looks ok in many bright scenes, it's mainly the evening scenes that cause me the most problems.

My lamp is actually doing fairly ok at 900 hours for uncalibrated lumens, a little more than a normal lamp, but the main issue is if I calibrate I lose a lot of lumens now.
post #381 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Did you check saturation tracking, this is the most problematic thing on the JVC, it usually yields worse results at different sat points. You must have gotten a lucky sample for color, yah I imagine there is some variance to the gamuts on these. On mine, the green gamut is over-saturated and the blue luminance can never be fixed correctly. By eye it always appears there is too much red or green and not enough blue, no matter what I do, if I fight for too perfect for RED or GREEN balance, then blue gets hurt worse, so I have to concede things.
Yes, the gamma is a pain, that is why some have bought the Chromapure Auto-Cal packages for the Lumagen.

If comparing to projectors 5+ years ago, the JVC has ok color, it's not as bad as some projectors used to be. However, when A/B'n to modern projectors, like the Benq, Viewsonic, or Mits, then you can clearly see the JVC has color issues no matter how much calibration you do. The gamut cannot be calibrated because it does not have a CMS, and a Lumagen can only fix certain aspects because even the wide gamut is not completely over-saturated at all sat tracking points, so you win some you lose some when it comes to the color of the JVC. More importantly, out of all the recent projectors I have owned, the JVC has one of the worst OOTB color as far as accuracy goes. You really have to crank green down and by that time you lose a lot of lumens.

The JVC color looks ok in many bright scenes, it's mainly the evening scenes that cause me the most problems.

My lamp is actually doing fairly ok at 900 hours for uncalibrated lumens, a little more than a normal lamp, but the main issue is if I calibrate I lose a lot of lumens now.

I only did the basic CIE chart plotting at 75% stimulus. I am sure that points in between are not perfect. Without a side by side reference projector, color looks very good to me.....at least what I would consider believable with something standing out as looking off. I am used to viewing a professionally calibrated 60" Tv, so really obviously bad color bothers me. OOB color was bad. Mine, I feel, looks pretty natural once replaced the lamp and re-calibrated with an i1pro. Evening scenes look good too. What scenes in particular are problematic for you?

Yeah I had to make some compromises, but almost all displays have that issue to some degree. Are you using the multipoint gamma controls to do your grayscale/gamma...or are you just using the grayscale controls? I gave up on the multipoint. It would work great up until about 60 IRE....then the controls stopped working correctly.

I just wish the lamps had more red in them, then I would have a much brighter calibrated result. But every time I watch it lately, I can't help but think this looks WAY better than any commercial theater I have been in lately.
post #382 of 390
I did a mix of multipoint gamma and gray-scale, but yah it was a major pain and I didn't do it across the entire levels. I haven't re-calibrated in a while. I think some JVC's are a tad luckier than others when it comes to color though.

I agree, not enough RED in the cinema and natural mode and the PJ likes to emphasize green and yellow, and non-best modes with more red have too many other issues. Also the blue luminance issue is a problem in brighter scenes with certain shades of blue, I can see it when A/B'n. It's ok though, certainly not terrible color, I guess I just need to recalibrate with my C6 + Spectracal and do an A/B again and try to do some "by eye" post-calibration patchwork adjustments to the color (voodoo techniques I know, but when all else fails, get out the voodoo doll). I would even rather have a bit cooler of an image away from D65 if I can get rid of some more of the yellow. I'll update next time I try to re-calibrate.
post #383 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I did a mix of multipoint gamma and gray-scale, but yah it was a major pain and I didn't do it across the entire levels. I haven't re-calibrated in a while. I think some JVC's are a tad luckier than others when it comes to color though.

I agree, not enough RED in the cinema and natural mode and the PJ likes to emphasize green and yellow, and non-best modes with more red have too many other issues. Also the blue luminance issue is a problem in brighter scenes with certain shades of blue, I can see it when A/B'n. It's ok though, certainly not terrible color, I guess I just need to recalibrate with my C6 + Spectracal and do an A/B again and try to do some "by eye" post-calibration patchwork adjustments to the color (voodoo techniques I know, but when all else fails, get out the voodoo doll). I would even rather have a bit cooler of an image away from D65 if I can get rid of some more of the yellow. I'll update next time I try to re-calibrate.

I know what you mean by vodoo methods! I made compromises with the green controls to help bring gamma in line....still managed to keep dE under 2. After I was done, I still felt it looked a little too green so I just cut green but a few clicks by eye. Ultimately, if you get close with calibration so you know you're not WAY off and then you adjust a bit by eye because it looks better to you that way, that's all that matters.

I will save when it comes to contrast and over all image quality, it's better than anything else I have seen. Some of the outside night sequences in the new resident evil movie (I know bad movie, but great A/V) has so much depth to them.

I do wish I had a c6 to go with my i1pro. It would be faster and easier to get those lower IRE's....though I sometimes wonder with as dark as the JVC is at 0-20 IRE how well the c6 really does. I figure down that low, if there is no noticeable tint to blacks, I'm OK.
post #384 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

If anyone is looking to add spare bulbs PM me, I have two of the new design available.

The new bulb PK-L2210U is no longer available, if anyone wants one with 25hrs on it, please PM me
post #385 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

The new bulb PK-L2210U is no longer available, if anyone wants one with 25hrs on it, please PM me

Could you explain which bulb the l2210u is. The -003 with the flapper? If so, why would it not be available any longer?
post #386 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

The new bulb PK-L2210U is no longer available, if anyone wants one with 25hrs on it, please PM me

Pretty sure that is not true jvc and avs both still lists them. Plus the rs45 series uses them as well...
post #387 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

Pretty sure that is not true jvc and avs both still lists them. Plus the rs45 series uses them as well...
He is saying that he no longer had it available for sale as I bought it smile.gif
post #388 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

The new bulb PK-L2210U is no longer available, if anyone wants one with 25hrs on it, please PM me

Sure it is still available. We have stock and more coming to us. All of them are the 003 version with the flapper.
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post #389 of 390
Have any of you RSx5 owners tried cleaning the glass that the lamp directs its light through? It was posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1223098/please-post-experience-of-jvc-hd750-350-550-950-bulb-lifetime-lamp-brightness-drop

Not sure if it applies to newer models but these owners claimed dramatic improvements in brightness after cleaning a hazy film off of that glass.
post #390 of 390
My Lux readings Replaced X90 Batcave.

iris open
standard/6500k/normal/other settings 0/
126"diag 1.2gain 2:35/16:9 screen/13`7" throw
Service menu white pattern
60 mins warm up
Center screen readings

Low/High lamp
106 hours
207/340 Lux 16:9 87" wide
124/208 Lux 2:35 117" wide

158 hours
207/325 Lux16:9 87" wide
124/197 Lux 2:35 117" wide

488 Hours
110/167 Lux 2:35 117" wide --- In 330 hours only a 30 Lux drop at high lamp.

680 Hours
Same readings as last time 167 Lux on High lamp 117" wide

1051 Hours
High Lamp 117" wide 2:35 151 Lux a drop of only 16 Lux in 563 hours
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