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UNHAPPY - HD HomeRun Prime major issues with Intel DH67CF & DH67GD motherboard NICs - Page 2

post #31 of 67
Would adding a second USB nic for connection to the Prime maybe help?

Lesson I am slowly learning with a HTPC, don't bang your head against the wall too long if money will fix the problem, fix it and move on.
post #32 of 67
Thread Starter 
Perhaps, but I'm not sure how well gigabit USB NICs perform. I think I'd rather leave my integrated NIC at 100Mbps before doing that.
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

I just find it hard to believe that I'm discovering a bug in the Intel NIC and/or driver. This has to be such a common NIC that SOMEONE out there would have seen issues with devices other than the Prime by now.

Judging from the silence here and at the SD forums, it looks like you're either the only one with the issue or you're the only one running these NICs at GigE with a Prime.
post #34 of 67
Thread Starter 
I agree, or the only one who knows the symptoms they are seeing are related to packet loss. I was PMing with others who had pixelization issues a while back before narrowing the problem down but most were considering returning their Primes. I have not seen them post recently so my guess is that they did.
post #35 of 67
Thread Starter 
..or they've simply found a working configuration and are living with it. Things are extremely solid over here at 100Mbps and exclusive tuners. It's tempting to just live with it.
post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

Perhaps, but I'm not sure how well gigabit USB NICs perform. I think I'd rather leave my integrated NIC at 100Mbps before doing that.

Gigabit USB NICs feel pretty slow...I only used one where I had to add another port on a mATX board for Internet access (i.e., I knew it'd be faster than the slow DSL connection) and it still felt slow compared to using an ethernet card.

If it's working fine at 100Mbit for you, I'd just leave it. That's plenty fast for the HD videostreams. Or use a gigabit router instead of switch and that should change the packet flow enough for everything to be happy...
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Judging from the silence here and at the SD forums, it looks like you're either the only one with the issue or you're the only one running these NICs at GigE with a Prime.

More complexity than that isn't there.

Mother board
NIC
Gigabit speed
Prime
Tuners assigned to different PC's
Maybe I missed something too, but I would look at ALL common or unique factors in your setup, and experiment with removing and/or changing them one at a time.
post #38 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:


If it's working fine at 100Mbit for you, I'd just leave it. That's plenty fast for the HD videostreams. Or use a gigabit router instead of switch and that should change the packet flow enough for everything to be happy...

Unfortunately there are other tasks I do, moving records, etc., that would really benefit from gigabit speeds. Also, simulataneous recordings and network Blu-Ray playback.

Quote:


Maybe I missed something too, but I would look at ALL common or unique factors in your setup, and experiment with removing and/or changing them one at a time.

Unfortunately there's nothing really unique - if you read my original post, assuming they're being honest, SiliconDust claims to have duplicated my issue easily on their end using my same motherboard & NIC.
post #39 of 67
If you haven't done so already:

Set everything up like you want (gig-e, etc.). On one of the PCs, run the following from an administrator command prompt:

netsh int tcp set global rss=disabled
netsh int tcp set global chimney=disabled

Reboot, then test. If that doesn't fix it, go into the properties of the NIC and set TCP Connection Offload IPv4 to Disable (do it for IPv6 as well), set Receive Side Scaling to Disable, and set IPv4 Large Send Offload and Checksum Offload to Disable (do it for IPv6 as well). Reboot and test. Note that some of these options may be named slightly different on an Intel NIC. I don't have one in front of me right now.

I've seen the above options, when set to enabled, cause many network issues similar to yours. You can easily back them out if none of it helps.

Good luck!
post #40 of 67
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I've been through so many settings I don't recall if I've tried that exact combination, but will give it a shot when I have some time and report back.
post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

I'd be very interesting in hearing exactly what your friend is running as far as motherboard BIOS, NIC driver version, Prime firmware, switch model, etc. I'd also be interested in hearing whether he experienced any pixelization and the results of a packet loss test.

If he is interested, he can feel free to PM me.

Thanks!

Mike,

I'll check with him the exact versions, but I had helped him build the HTPC and we updated everything (drivers) at the time it was built (roughly back in July). I believe he is running the latest Prime official firmware. I asked about pixelization and he said he didn't see anything that he hadn't seen before having a cablebox.

He's not on AVS and I know his life is a bit busy at the moment so I don't want to bug him too much, but if there is anything specific you'd want to know I can try.
post #42 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I'll check with him the exact versions, but I had helped him build the HTPC and we updated everything (drivers) at the time it was built (roughly back in July). I believe he is running the latest Prime official firmware. I asked about pixelization and he said he didn't see anything that he hadn't seen before having a cablebox.

That last statement is key. When I first noticed the pixelization I thought it was normal cable signal-type pixelization. After I got my tuner reliability improved and ditched all my cable boxes I started optimizing my signal strength in hopes of reducing or eliminating it.

After getting my signal strength where it should be and still seeing pixelization I started looking elsewhere and found the packet loss. Now that I have my PCs fixed at 100Mbps I see basically ZERO pixelization, much better than with my cable boxes. To some the pixelization I was seeing might seem normal if you're used to a sub-par cable signal.

Quote:


He's not on AVS and I know his life is a bit busy at the moment so I don't want to bug him too much, but if there is anything specific you'd want to know I can try.

No, that's OK. I'd love confirmation of the BIOS & driver versions he's using, plus the results of a packet loss test, but I know what a busy life is like and I appreciate the input you did provide.

Thanks
post #43 of 67
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to follow up on this. I ended up getting a call from the CEO of SiliconDust on this issue, which I appreciated. He basically let me rant a bit and then he explained it from their side, expressing that they did spend a significant amount of time on my issue and admitting that communication is not their strong point. He indicated that their resources are limited and that they needed their CTO to be focusing on other things now that they believe the issue is on Intel's end.

While I appreciated the call, nothing about it really made me feel any better about the issue and certainly didn't make me feel like they were planning on working with Intel on the problem as they had previously indicated.

One thing I can say about SiliconDust is that they are a frustrating company to work with. If everything works for you, great, but if you have an issue their lack of communication and vagueness when they do respond is extremely frustrating. There are several threads on their forums going on now where other users with other issues are at wit's end as well.

One thing I tried to express is that although they claim they beta tested this product, it sure didn't feel like it was anything more than a very small, closed beta test. In all my years in the IT field I have never purchased a product so flawed out of the box, and I purchase a lot.

On the other hand, with the November firmware it has been rock solid running with no tuner sharing between PCs, at 100Mbps, on FIOS in my home. Unfortunately no tuner sharing and 100Mbps is just not acceptable to me.

On a side note, I did get a response from Intel indicating that they have potentially found a driver issue that may or may not be related to this problem. I'm waiting a response from them to see if they have something I can test. Fingers crossed.

I also have a Ceton tuner card on order, hope to get it on Monday.
post #44 of 67
Thanks for the update Mike. I can understand your frustration with SD. I've been fortunate that I haven't had any major issues with them, but I can understand it can be frustrating. The Prime was definitely buggy the first month or two it was out, but I've found it to be solid since then. Let us know how it goes with the Ceton.
post #45 of 67
It's not surprising your issue is not a priority to them. Your issue is not going to drive revenue. They are working on the next release, growing the pipeline and they already have your money. They need to focus on other people's money now. It's pretty typical.
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

He indicated that their resources are limited and that they needed their CTO to be focusing on other things now that they believe the issue is on Intel's end.

While I appreciated the call, nothing about it really made me feel any better about the issue and certainly didn't make me feel like they were planning on working with Intel on the problem as they had previously indicated.

While I have no clue what SD's support volume looks like, I would expect it's relatively similar to what we see. If we drew a hard line in the sand and said "oh that's an OS issue" or "Oh that's a video driver issue"and "Oh that's a MSO issue" I'm pretty sure we could cut our support volume by about 3/4 (meaning that the majority of tickets we get today really aren't our problem).
I know I'm currently working with Microsoft on a number of issues, working with many MSOs on all sorts of issues. working with a motherboard manufacturer on another issue, and working with a USB controller manufacturer on an issue between their controller and Cisco TAs.
post #47 of 67
Thread Starter 
If nothing else, if SiliconDust is right and it is an issue with my NIC and not on their end, and that they are able to easily reproduce the issue as they said (indicating everyone with my model Intel motherboard or perhaps even everyone with my model NIC would see the same issue), then I would think it would be in their best interest to work with Intel.

I mean, I did all the leg work and created a case with Intel and have exchanged emails with an Intel tech and even cc:ed SiliconDust. You'd think it would be in their best interest to ship Intel a Prime so they could test, a Prime which probably costs them $50 to manufacturer.

But, oh well, we'll see what happens.
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

(indicating everyone with my model Intel motherboard or perhaps even everyone with my model NIC would see the same issue), then I would think it would be in their best interest to work with Intel.

It'd take time for Intel to reproduce it, find the problem, then make sure the fix doesn't break anything, then release.
Unless it's something really urgent like a security hole, I don't think any company would resolve it that quickly. I haven't heard of other people complaining about networking performance on those boards so that lowers priority even more... (I'd guess on the order of months)-:

Not to excuse any foot dragging, but just saying it takes time if it's not your stuff that's broken...unless you can find a workaround w/ your stuff...
post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenyee View Post

It'd take time for Intel to reproduce it, find the problem, then make sure the fix doesn't break anything, then release.
Unless it's something really urgent like a security hole, I don't think any company would resolve it that quickly. I haven't heard of other people complaining about networking performance on those boards so that lowers priority even more... (I'd guess on the order of months)-:

Not to excuse any foot dragging, but just saying it takes time if it's not your stuff that's broken...unless you can find a workaround w/ your stuff...

The motherboard manufacturer I was working with on another issue actually reached out to us when the customer opened a case with them, and sent us one of the board in question (and we also sent them an InfiniTV to test with).

I think most manufacturers are willing to work with companies on mutual problems - I know we are willing to work with any manufacturer on an issue that affect mutual customers, whether it is our problem or theirs.
post #50 of 67
Any update?
post #51 of 67
Thread Starter 
Got the Ceton in yesterday, but just realized I need Windows Server 2008 R2 on my server to use the network host feature. My current server has 2008 (not R2). Not a big deal because I've been meaning to swing my media server over to slightly better spare hardware I have kicking around, so that would be a good time to switch to R2.

With any luck I might be tackling it tonight.

No word from SiliconDust - they've been pretty quiet on their forums about any outstanding issues actually.

No word from Intel yet either.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

I mean, I did all the leg work and created a case with Intel and have exchanged emails with an Intel tech and even cc:ed SiliconDust. You'd think it would be in their best interest to ship Intel a Prime so they could test, a Prime which probably costs them $50 to manufacturer.

I think this is the issue:

post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

Got the Ceton in yesterday, but just realized I need Windows Server 2008 R2 on my server to use the network host feature. My current server has 2008 (not R2). Not a big deal because I've been meaning to swing my media server over to slightly better spare hardware I have kicking around, so that would be a good time to switch to R2.

With any luck I might be tackling it tonight.

No word from SiliconDust - they've been pretty quiet on their forums about any outstanding issues actually.

No word from Intel yet either.

I've never tried it, but I can't think of a reason that 2008 (non-R2) won't host it. Did you try?
post #54 of 67
Thread Starter 
Hmmm, the downloaded installation just did not run - said it was an unsupported version of Windows. I didn't bother trying to extract the driver and manually install since everything I could find explicitly stated that R2 was required.

No biggie since a hardware upgrade and reinstall of R2 was in my plans anyway - this just kicked it to the top of my queue.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Boulanger View Post

Hmmm, the downloaded installation just did not run - said it was an unsupported version of Windows. I didn't bother trying to extract the driver and manually install since everything I could find explicitly stated that R2 was required.

No biggie since a hardware upgrade and reinstall of R2 was in my plans anyway - this just kicked it to the top of my queue.

Ahh we're probably just checking for the OS version as MCE on Vista fails horribly when you try and use a MOCUR.
post #56 of 67
Mike,

Out of curiosity how did you fare with the Ceton? Did it not exhibit the packet loss you had with the Prime?
post #57 of 67
Thread Starter 
Sorry for the lack of updates. Actually, I'm not sure yet. I have the Ceton installed and working on my file server, and I'm streaming it to my main HTPC and it's working very reliably. However I left my HTPC NIC at 100 Mbps - I wanted to run it for a few days to establish a baseline as far as reliability, pixelization, etc., before upping it to gigabit.

I can say that Ceton support was awesome. I had a couple of questions/issues during setup and their response to support requests was very prompt - which impressed me.

With all the holidays and crazy family stuff I haven't had time to test further. Perhaps in the next week. Will report back.
post #58 of 67
Thread Starter 
OK, finally had some time to spend on this.

I can confirm that at gigabit speeds, using the latest BIOS and driver for my Intel motherboard, I do get occasional pixelization streaming over the LAN from my Ceton. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much pixelization as I get streaming from the Prime, but it is there. If I lock my NIC down to 100Mbps the pixelization is gone. So, I have to conclude that SiliconDust is correct and that there is some kind of issue with this NIC and/or driver that will noticeably affect this kind of traffic. Nonetheless, I am still upset that SiliconDust did not follow through with Intel as they said they would.

At this point I've decided to keep both my Ceton and my Prime. I plan on moving my Ceton directly into my primary HTPC which does all my recordings and has a standard size case. This will reduce my network traffic and free up tuners for use elsewhere in my home.

I will dedicate my HDHomeRun Prime to the other small form factor HTPCs in my home and my office PC which I occasionally watch TV from.

I checked with Intel on the issue recently, and the rep I am working with indicated that he is still waiting on a driver that he can release to me for testing. I'm eagerly awaiting that, it seems that may be my only hope of resolving this issue.
post #59 of 67
I ran into this problem just now and stumbled upon this thread. My prime hdhomerun prime was running fine and I upgraded my PC with a Asus P9X79 Pro motherboard. First thing I looked at was the signals and connection, but like I said it all was fine a week ago. Next logical thing was the onboard NIC -- Intel 82579V.

Here's what I did, and am seeing much better results:

- Installed latest driver currently - V17.3.0.0 on ASUS website.

- In network connection, adapters, right click-propertis, configure. Go to link speed tab, select 1 Gbps Full Duplex instead of Auto.

- Last thing which I think is the real solution: In the power management tab, Uncheck "Energy Efficient Ethernet" and Uncheck "Reduce link speed during standby".
post #60 of 67
Wow.. Talk about digging up an old thread!
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