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Audyssey DSX and Bipolar Speakers

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I've asked this a couple of times in other threads but it seems to get lost in the mix so I figured its time to make its own thread...

I mainly wondering if anyone has used all bipolar speakers with the Height and Wide speakers of Audyssey DSX. I know Chris over at Audyssey recommends all monopole/direct except for dipolar surrounds. However, there is a sale going on for Def Tech bipolars, and Ive found a used system consisting of 2-BP7002's, 2-PM1000, Mythos 3 Center, and a Denon 7.1 receiver for under 1500. I've never heard bipolars but Im worried that the expanded sound field will "cancel out" the height and wides.

Id eventually like to take advantage of the full DSX. My current setup is:

Denon 3312
ProCenter2000
PM1000 x 2
PM800 x 2 (surrounds)
Epik Legend x 2

As you can see my speakers are kind of my weak spot. I bought these only a few months ago and though they sound great, they cant handle the action scenes at louder volumes very well. Clarity gets lost and its like certain parts are cut out (if that makes sense).

Couple of other things:

-Is there any difference going from a procenter2000 to a mythos3 center? It seems the 3 has smaller drivers and a longer cabinet. If there isn't that much of a difference then whats the logical next step for a center?

-My budget is 1500-2000 and I was wanting to move the PM1000 to the wide channel and the PM800's to the height. And maybe get a new center.

-If bipolars are out I was looking at the Mythos series.


Room is 13 x 17 with a 110 inch projector. I can add pictures if needed.
post #2 of 10
Thread Starter 
Bump for getting lost again.
post #3 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidDroid View Post

I mainly wondering if anyone has used all bipolar speakers with the Height and Wide speakers of Audyssey DSX. I know Chris over at Audyssey recommends all monopole/direct except for dipolar surrounds. However, there is a sale going on.

Why are you trying to force something that has been recommended as not a good idea or shouldn't be done.

No matter the sale, if it's a bad idea, it's a lost of money.
post #4 of 10
I use ERD-1's in Bipole for heights in my 11.2 system because I can't make monopoles fit in my setup with the ceiling clearance that I have in my house (13x18x8, main seating is 11' back).

Just because it isn't optimal, doesn't mean you don't do it at all.

Also, Atlantic makes bipole heights SPECIFICALLY for PLIIz height channels. Audyssey insists they will mess the world up and suck.

My personal experience differs. The sound is hands down amazing. Would it be better if I could set it up optimally and put identical voice matched monopoles 14' up the wall and pointed down at the correct angle?

Probably. But since I can't crap out 6' of additional ceiling height in my living room, my meager 11.2 setup with Bipole heights will just have to cope with being "Imperfect".

Way better than not having heights at all, or having monopoles in the complete wrong configuration.

For wides, you need to match the other speakers in your main soundstage (L, C, R) as closely as possible. A crapload of information comes to those channels and you will notice a difference in voice matching.

For the record, my 11.2 system consists of:
Denon 4311CI
Emotiva XPA-5 Left, Center, Right, Wides (MC305)
Emotiva UPA-2 Rear Surrounds (MC305)
Emotiva UPA-2 Side Surrounds (ERD-1, Dipole)
Emotiva UPA-2 Front Heights (ERD-1, Bipole)

7x CSW MC305 MTM Acoustic Suspension LCR's (80hz-22khz, 92db, 150watt)
4x Emotiva ERD-1's (80hz-25hkz, 89db, 200watt)
2x Klipsch Synergy Sub-12's

Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 sets my MC305's at 70Hz or 80Hz (I run @ 80) and my ERD-1's at 90Hz and the sound is, hands down, amazing.

I run everything in A-DSX and it sounds perfect. Even if it's "designed for monopoles bla bla bla", bipoles as ambiance/effects channels, bipoles do a pretty good job, and there is so little information coming from your heights, you really shouldn't need super-large, powerful speakers up there.

Rainstorms and thunder sound like they are coming from the sky, helicopters, flyovers and dragons (ie, how to train your dragon bluray) all sound exactly the way they "should".

If you want them, and have the money for them, pull the trigger (although I'm not certain dipoles would be right for your front soundstage by design, if they switch to bipole, I'd do it in a heartbeat).

When I do a real home theater in my basement in a few years, I'll follow the Audyssey recommendations. But since I can't right now, bipoles do the job quite nicely.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Why are you trying to force something that has been recommended as not a good idea or shouldn't be done.

No matter the sale, if it's a bad idea, it's a lost of money.

Because I'm not an audiophile who hangs on to the tiniest bit of improvement. If it sounds good to great then I'm satisfied. I'm looking into other speakers and want to go down every avenue before I purchase them. Surely there is someone who had bipolars before then added the wide and height channels without replacing their mains and surrounds. I'm just looking for opinions.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goros View Post

I use ERD-1's in Bipole for heights in my 11.2 system because I can't make monopoles fit in my setup with the ceiling clearance that I have in my house (13x18x8, main seating is 11' back).

Just because it isn't optimal, doesn't mean you don't do it at all.

Also, Atlantic makes bipole heights SPECIFICALLY for PLIIz height channels. Audyssey insists they will mess the world up and suck.

My personal experience differs. The sound is hands down amazing. Would it be better if I could set it up optimally and put identical voice matched monopoles 14' up the wall and pointed down at the correct angle?

Probably. But since I can't crap out 6' of additional ceiling height in my living room, my meager 11.2 setup with Bipole heights will just have to cope with being "Imperfect".

Way better than not having heights at all, or having monopoles in the complete wrong configuration.

For wides, you need to match the other speakers in your main soundstage (L, C, R) as closely as possible. A crapload of information comes to those channels and you will notice a difference in voice matching.

For the record, my 11.2 system consists of:
Denon 4311CI
Emotiva XPA-5 Left, Center, Right, Wides (MC305)
Emotiva UPA-2 Rear Surrounds (MC305)
Emotiva UPA-2 Side Surrounds (ERD-1, Dipole)
Emotiva UPA-2 Front Heights (ERD-1, Bipole)

7x CSW MC305 MTM Acoustic Suspension LCR's (80hz-22khz, 92db, 150watt)
4x Emotiva ERD-1's (80hz-25hkz, 89db, 200watt)
2x Klipsch Synergy Sub-12's

Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 sets my MC305's at 70Hz or 80Hz (I run @ 80) and my ERD-1's at 90Hz and the sound is, hands down, amazing.

I run everything in A-DSX and it sounds perfect. Even if it's "designed for monopoles bla bla bla", bipoles as ambiance/effects channels, bipoles do a pretty good job, and there is so little information coming from your heights, you really shouldn't need super-large, powerful speakers up there.

Rainstorms and thunder sound like they are coming from the sky, helicopters, flyovers and dragons (ie, how to train your dragon bluray) all sound exactly the way they "should".

If you want them, and have the money for them, pull the trigger (although I'm not certain dipoles would be right for your front soundstage by design, if they switch to bipole, I'd do it in a heartbeat).

When I do a real home theater in my basement in a few years, I'll follow the Audyssey recommendations. But since I can't right now, bipoles do the job quite nicely.

Thanks Goros. I was interested in the Bipolar fronts and side surrounds, then direct wides and heights....but what you say is interesting.

This is an example of I'm talking about. Bipolars aren't recommended for heights, but yet he utilizes them and thinks they sound great and blend in nice. Thats what I'm looking for; opinions like that.
post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidDroid View Post

Thanks Goros. I was interested in the Bipolar fronts and side surrounds, then direct wides and heights....but what you say is interesting.

This is an example of I'm talking about. Bipolars aren't recommended for heights, but yet he utilizes them and thinks they sound great and blend in nice. Thats what I'm looking for; opinions like that.

Don't forget to turn on your TV speakers when you do this, it adds an effect also, you may like that too.
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Don't forget to turn on your TV speakers when you do this, it adds an effect also, you may like that too.

No TV. Projector.
post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Don't forget to turn on your TV speakers when you do this, it adds an effect also, you may like that too.

God, yer a dick.

They also say that you shouldn't put your side or back surrounds close to your ceiling because of all the issues it causes, but that didn't stop you....did it? (especially on the dipole/bipoles!, at least the direct radiators can be angled down)

Maybe you should be running a 3.2 system since you can't optimally install your surrounds the way you're "supposed to".

Let the guy spend his hard earned money how he wants, and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, fyi.
post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by goros View Post

God, yer a dick.

They also say that you shouldn't put your side or back surrounds close to your ceiling because of all the issues it causes, but that didn't stop you....did it? (especially on the dipole/bipoles!, at least the direct radiators can be angled down)

Maybe you should be running a 3.2 system since you can't optimally install your surrounds the way you're "supposed to".

Let the guy spend his hard earned money how he wants, and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, fyi.

So sorry, I didn't mean to mess with your boyfriend. Interesting comment about people in glass houses shouldn't.... Yet look who's talking.

I didn't know about being too close to the ceiling, maybe you wouldn't mind giving me a link on that information.
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