Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread - Page 38

[quote=wnielsenbb;21706975]"If you do the last advance step, you will get this."
yes, that is not a red crosshair though, which that picture has.

QUOTE]

Ok, sorry, think I am confused...

It isn't likely you will get perfect white lines throughout the entire screen on an Epson 5010 because it is my contention that it only "fakes" moving the line by interpolating between lines (see additional discussion on this below). The best you can do is move the lines one pixel-width at a time. You can, however, get all red and blue pixels within 1/2 of a pixel or better of the green pixel. If you get a 5010 that can be converged "exactly" you are extremely lucky.


The red cross-hair pictures were taken from my Epson 5010 (which was delivered on December 21st) on a grid near the center (after adjusting the corner grids) with the red option and the red & green only display. No photographic manipulation was done other than cropping. This is the way the grid looked.

I see no evidence of motorized alignment on my projector. When I first got my 5010, I thought I was able to get perfect pixel alignment. It was only when I looked at it more carefully that I realized it wasn't perfect. It is easy to think you are getting perfect alignment because the combination of green and another color is very bright which makes it harder to see the edges of the red and especially the blue. That's why I used the red-only crosshair for my example.

My 5010 only has what you refer to as "digital pixel alignment". Others have made similar observations in this thread. I can not of course say that all Epson 5010's are the same or if there is some conditions where it uses motorized and others that interpolate in software or if there is something defective with 5010's that work like mine do.

You gave me the incentive and I did it today. It fact it did make a difference. After I got an almost perfect grid with the pixel alignment I went though the focus and advanced sharpness adjustments again and, oh surprise, this time I could really rech perfection. I used advanced sharpness patterns from my QD780 and it was more than satisfying but then I remembered that on the Disney WOW bluray there was an excellent sharpness pattern that also involves text and that is what gave the cherry on the topping. I could really see the difference when moving one unit up or down each of the advanced sharpness settings, whereas before the pixel alignment it was more like guessing and averaging.

Thank you

thanks.

Someone should do a video exactly how to align the pixel. I would be happy to donate some money. The cross hair confuses me. If the corss hair aligned, than the long white lines are off lol.

I agree, I still don't think I totally get it.

I don't mean to imply that you should necessarily use the cross-hair when you converge, though you can. If you use the cross-hair, move the red or blue cross-hair line up/down and left/right so it lines up with the the green pixels on the vertical and horizontal lines, just as you otherrwise would do if looking only at the grid lines. You should use the green/red and green/blue display option so you just see one color (red or blue) in the cross-hair. The advantage of using the cross-hair is that you can see just one color which doesn't change color as you move it on top of the green pixel.

also, crank the red way up and left so you can see your seperate red grid and green grid. Then it is much easier to see as you move it back on top of the green grid. You don't need to look inside the box, just in that area.

I found the red crosshair. It turns out we were both right. If you adjust the 4 corners you are doing motorized panel alignment. The pixels move. The intersection is a different adjustment. Obviously the panel can't bend in the middle, so this is a digital adjustment, which indeed needs to be in increments of 8, but really shouldn't be touched at all. Adjust the 4 corners and call it good.

Frustration coupled with determination has forced me to re-post this information from another vaguely similar Thread, to here where it will hopefully prevent any other potentially sad and ridiculous misinformation from spreading it's insidious grasp on unsuspecting PJ Enthusiasts.

......and of course, All Ya All are welcome!




There is absolutely no need to do that!!!

The Chief RPA-168 Mount's "Projector Adapter Plate" is fully "Cross Model Adaptable" with the Epson 8100, 8500, 8700, 8350, 9100, 9350, 9700, 3010.5010,..............and yes, the 6010 as well.



If it wasn't so terribly sad....it would be "Knee Slappin' Hilarious. But it ain't.

Chief Tech, eh? You mean a "Tech at Chief" I hope so...because one so clueless and uninformed that some Rube from down in the Bottoms has to correct his misinformation is "No Tech at all".

I'd like to believe you are right. However, I spent some time playing with pixel alignment awhile back and convinced myself that that the 4 corners adjustment was also doing software pixel interpolation. I'll experiment again when I get a chance.

Even if the corners are accurately aligned, it doesn't necessarily follow that the middle pixel alignment on everyone's 5010/6010 will be as close as they are on yours. My red is off by more than one pixel near the center even after I have the 4 corners aligned. It is more important that the middle of the picture be accurately converged than the edges. If you are correct about the 4 corners, then it might be better to sacrifice some accuracy on the corners to get better middle alignment. You are right, it would be better to avoid software pixel alignment if possible.

When I do my corner alignment I am looking at the lines about 2 feet toward the middle. You probably should do two rounds around the corners since adjusting the next corner a lot might throw off your first adjustment a bit.

I will have play around a bit more too. It is fun really. Logically, you should only be able to move one corner, and then rotate the opposite corner. You can't move the panel right on the left side , and left on the right side. That would make the panel smaller, so maybe there is a mix of things going on. I wish Epson would explain it exactly.

Excellent observations. I'd love to see what is going on under the covers during pixel alignment or at least see a diagram. As you suggest, perhaps only two corners (or even just one) move the panel and the rest is software.

I thought when I was first aligning pixels that I could see the pixels move incrementally but when I went back a couple times later I couldn't duplicate it. Maybe I was just adjusting a different corner. More experimentation is in order.

Got my $100. How about a rebate on that Lumagen?

Epson advertises that the 5010/6010 has "motorized pixel alignment". If it isn't the panels that move, do you know what is motorized?

Hey, I bought one from Mark, I want my rebate.

The 5010 or the Lumagen.....

lol, I want to see what his answer too.

I dont know about that product, but I use AV-817U Universal Projector Flush Ceiling Mount. It works with my Epson 8700UB and now my Epson 5010. Work nicely.


http://www.visualapex.com/accessorie...number=AV-817U

I have the 6010 and Panasonic BDT220 Blu Ray Player.

I am playing a Side by Side 3D MKV movie file through the USB Flash drive.

From which source should I change the 3D setting to Side by Side? From the PJ or the BD?

Does it matter? Does the quality worsen or get better with either choice?

p.s. leaving the 6010 in "AUTO" mode does not automatically recognize that it is a side by side and change it accordingly. I would think that it would since they called it "AUTO."

when converting 2D content to 3D it's pretty much what look better to you. Mainly what have lesser ghosting, picture artifacts, and have better depth to you. 3D mkv file it's not 3D. It's just 2D if don't know that already.

I dont follow. If I have, say Avatar 3D (vs regular Avatar) as a MKV file, how is that not 3D?

It is 3D. I have played 3D MKV trailers and they were SideBySide 3D format.

I have an Epson 6010 too, normally have it in the 3D auto setting but like you state when playing a 3D MKV I have had to switch Epson to 3D SideBySide then all is good, plays in 3D.

Yes, i do that as well. But I also have the option to choose the side by side option from the BD Player. Does it matter (quality wise) which one should be selected? From BD Player or from Epson?

More important question, am i being too nitpicky?

Full 3D blu ray disc/Iso have two streams in one file m2ts. Anytime you remux/downsize it or convert to MKV you take away the 3D. What you see when you play some the MKV or remux/downsize m2ts file is side by side convert 3D, it's not actual real 3D from the blu ray disc.

Here's Avatar 3D Bluray disc info, notice two streams ? When you are converting to MKV or remux/downsize the 3D iso you only get the AVC without the MVC. MVC is what you need for raw 3D from the blu ray.

Disc Size: 49,937,237,876 bytes
Protection: BD+
BD-Java: Yes
Extras: Blu-ray 3D
BDInfo: 0.5.7

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name: 00800.MPLS
Length: 2:41:41 (h:m:s)
Size: 48,214,788,096 bytes
Total Bitrate: 39.76 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-4 AVC Video 21166 kbps 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 MVC Video 10608 kbps




You really don't know how 3D work do you ? Side by side is conversion not 3D. You can put any movie and do a side by side to make it 3D. Either it's your software, TV, Projector, or Bluray player is converting in real time while playing. What it does is that it zoom in the video so it can have two pictures side by side. Go and play a mkv movie file and do the 3D side by side Vs Actually full 3D iso and watch the quality difference

Thank you for this Charlie. Quite helpful. So, how would you watch an .iso file? I simply converted to .mkv and thought that did not take anything away.

I have lots of .iso files that I would like to be able to put it on my hard drive and watch them.

You're welcome

yep, i keep everything full iso for 3D, and all the 2D movies either i remux them or make a MKV. I store all my movies on the 24TB HTPC system lol.

To you play 3D or 2D iso is really easy. You need a 3D player software either powerDVd or Arcsoft Total Media. I like Arcsoft. Also you need Daemon tool to mount the iso and it's free

Daemontool lite "free" http://eu-uk1.disc-tools.com/request...e4453-0297.exe

Arcsoft total media theatre "15 days trial"
http://www.arcsoft.com/totalmedia-theatre/

Lol, Sorry, but I've never tried doing 3D from the computer, I'm a total noob for that. I do have two 3D ISOs on my PC right now that I was planning to burn to BD50; I have no idea whatsoever how I could view them directly on my 26" computer screen in 3D, though. Would you be able to use shutter glasses with a computer LCD screen, and if so, how would the glasses sync with the image? Or, would I have to connect an HDMI cable from my PC video card to my 3D projector as the only way to play them? Also, I have PDVD 10, not sure if that supports 3D or if I need a newer version.

I think the method he is suggesting is NOT viewing directly from your laptop screen, but instead connecting the computer to your projector or TV and viewing the content on your screen that way.

I dont know if you can use the shutter glasses with the computer screen. My guess would be no. My Epson glasses stop shuttering when there is no 3D signal coming out of Epson anyway.