Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread - Page 10

Yes, completely dark when I'm done building the HT. I'm moving my HT from our lounge room to a room previously used as a workshop. Dimensions are 7.8m x 5.6m.

Dave.

To everyone who went from the 8700 to either the 5010 or 6010 how would u say it compares as far as 2d of course.

Thanks that is a relief. Now if only can find the access to pixel alignment. Disappointing left out of user menus in non US models.

I just watched the "IMAX: Hubble 3D" Blu-ray disk (a Christmas present) on my Epson 5010. I can't image a better demo disc. It really shows off the contrast and black level of the Epson, the 3D is impressive, and as a documentary it is first rate. I certainly didn't miss the 5010's iris.

Hello to all of you guys...
I wish you a merry Xmas and a happy new year...And to all of you who have the 5010/6010 (or in good old Europe EH-TW 9000 (W)) with the pixel alignment missing in the normal menu, the new year may now become even a bit happier, as I have found a hint how u can activate the pixel alignment in the french Cin&Son-forum (cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/epson-tw9000w-3199-euros-t34302-315.html)
1. Press the Menu-Button and hold for 8 sec.
2. Press the ESC-Button twice
3. Press the "Left-Arrow"-Button
4. Repeat Steps 1-3
Then a new submenu should appear in the "Advanced"-Submenu, where you can correct the pixel alignment...
In the french forum, they say to do like this could void warranty...as I am Anesthesiologist and no Attorney at law, I'm not quite sure, but I think this is unlikely, as Epson themselves have built in this feature...and any change to the alignment should be reset by a general reset of the PJ...As I am not at home until tomorrow afternoon, I can't try it myself at the moment, but I will try tomorrow and then report here...
Best wishes to you from good old germany...
Michael

I went from the 8700UB to the 5010.In my short time with the 5010 I would say that it beats out the 8700 in every way.Better blacks, slightly sharper, brighter,better build quality and much better remote.In short 2D performance is fantastic. Ron

While I run an Epson 8350, I've been scouring the world for access to the service menu but to no avail.

So naturally I'm going to try this sequence and see what happens!

I'm experienced with such things, so please remember a few key points:

Rule ONE: The first commandment.
Wherever you are in the menu, RECORD ALL THE ORIGINAL DATA. Take a quick snapshot with a note stuck to the screen if needed, write it down, have a video cam running, any or all of these. You must have a contingency plan to get back to square one in case of an error.

Two: Don't guess on ANYTHING. If you don't know what a parameter is, it is entirely possible to get to an unrecoverable state. An example: I know Sony (you may have guessed that!) It's possible to set a parameter that blanks the screen (total image cut.) That can be written and saved. If set, it will be sheer hell to navigate back to it and reset it.

Things like this are why manufacturers hide the service menu.

That said, are there obvious instructions on data change and saving?

There is going to be a bunch of bold souls going into the vast unknown of The Epson Void. Good luck to all who dare! ;-)

So... anyone got any 8350-specific info...?

Final Rule: See Rule One.

To me it does not do enough to merit me using it.

Epson boldly advertises motorized pixel alignment on their 5010 "Key Feature" page:

• Amazingly sharp, crisp images — motorized pixel alignment

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/j...sku=V11H398020

You mention above that you were "able to determine that moving 8 horizontal increments is the equivalent of one pixel". I assume you mean that one increment is equal to one-eighth of a pixel. This is consistent with what I observe. If so, how would you imagine that software could cause 1/8th or any fraction of a pixel to light up?

However Epson's pixel alignment works, I found that converging the 5010 to be very effective which is a good thing since out-of-the box convergence on my unit was off by nearly 2 R/G pixels throughout much of the screen. (B/G convergence was better.) I also found Epson's pixel alignment to be reletively easy. When I was done the picture was noticeably sharper.

Epson's motorized convergence was one of the main reasons I decided to get the 5010 and at least on my unit, it lived up to my expectations.

To demonstrate my point, I'm attached a test image which will demonstrate that the pixel correction is being performed in software. This pattern is meant to demonstrate that X-axis corrections to the red alignment result in artifacts being introduced by the software.

Make sure that you display the image full screen at 1920x1080. Set the LCD adjustment set to Off you should equally sharp, evenly spaced vertical red lines. Now turn it on and set an uneven adjustment, e.g. 16 in one corner and 0 in another.

Take turns flipping between LCD Adjustment On and Off. You should see the red lines will have strange patterns introduced when the correction is being applied. The effect is most noticeable if you look at the whole screen in a dark room while standing a few feet back because the patterns impact whole regions of the screen (no pixel-peeping required). The aliasing patterns are due to the software interpolation that is used by the correction process.

While I still believe that the feature is useful and beneficial, I wouldn't want to use it to correct a half-pixel, for example. If you run this image through a "4" shift (~1/2 pixel), then you'll see that the screen becomes a nearly even shade of blurred red and it's very difficult to even distinguish the lines at all. As you noted, it is impossible to light 1/2 of a pixel without motorized alignment, so the software instead blends one pixel across two adjacent pixels at 50% each. This is why the lines are nearly extinct using 1/2 pixel adjustments.

I'm zipping the file because it exceeds the resolution allowed by the forums. If you don't trust a ZIP, you can easily recreate this pattern by drawing a series of alternating red/black vertical 1-pxel wide lines using Paint. If you do try this test then let me know what happens.

 

red_hpattern.zip 0.5400390625k . file

Thanks. I know what Art and Bill said but I wanted some real in-home comparison reviews.

From what I have gathered, the motorized pixel alignment only occurs when you adjust the center point for convergence.

Maybe it uses motorized alignment for up and down alignment at center point and software alignment for tilting (using the corner alignment points)?

Using the 2d-3d conversion or changing the depth aspect.

OK, I see what you saying. I'll try your demonstration and see if I can get the same results. I imagine I will.


Interesting hypothesis .. It is easy to see how motorized alignment could move all the pixels of one color equally in any direction but more difficult to imagine how it could change them in one direction in one area but another direction in another area.

When you say "From what I have gathered" is this based on experimentation? If so, can you describe your experiment?

I don't see any evidence that adjusting the center point is any different that adjusting any other point in the screen. No matter which point I select, moving the line vertically or horizontally causes the line to bow out at the maximum amount at that point, somewhat less at nearby points, and not at all at distant points. Whether this is done strictly by software or some combination of software and motorized panel movement, I don't know.

Here's an experiment I just tried: What happens if you move the corner of R or B away from center? If the panel is being moved, you should be able to see the color move the maximum amount way from center. If it is software, then it would not move the maximum amount away from center because there is no more panel left (unless the panels are larger than 1080 X 1920).

The answer is that the it does not move the maximum amount which seems to support the software theory. And as I stated above, moving the center point doesn't move the corners at all in any direction.

I was going mostly by this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21361324

I do not have the 5010 YET, but hope to soon. So, don't take my word on it. I don't know why they would state a "motorized" alignment, but then use software. Seems like opening the case would put this whole thing to rest....or maybe some info from Epson.

ubob800:

My PC can't be easily connected to the Epson at the moment but I trust your observations. However, I'm not sure your results rule out that Epson isn't using a combination of panel and software adjustment. It doesn't seem like it, though.

Thanks Dr Michael. So doing this makes the feature appear in the menus.
I wonder what the commands are to make it disappear again if it or maybe a warranty issue?

Haven't done the above but from what Michael is saying the procedure creates the Pixel Alignment option in the user menu's as per the US 5010

what are the best and/or cheapest glasses to use with the Epson? I heard the Xpand 103 will not work with it and I've got 2 sets

Does the 5010 come with glasses?

Hi all,

A bit of a newbie question perhaps, but thought I'd ask. I'm trying to deside between a 6010 (TW9000 in Australia) or a Panny AE7000. From what I've researched, the Epson is the better projector in terms of general picture/better blacks etc and still good 3D even without the dynamic iris in 3D mode, but the Lens memory/recall features of the Panny are a nice thing - especially if I go down the anamorphic screen path (and not need an expensive anamorphic lens with the Panny). Not wanting to buy an expensive anamorphic lens, although 80% of the content watched will be 2.35:1 movies.

I have a dedicated home threatre room in a new house ready for fitout... I'm thinking of getting a larger 16:9 screen with the Epson rather than an anamorphic screen the same width with the Panny (with lens memory). The Panny resizing 16:9 content on the anamorphic screen will make the 16:9 image smaller when fitting onto the anamorphic screen is another bummer going down the anamorphic screen path - although it does make the room look more "cinema like".

Anyway, my question is, if the Epson is setup on a 16:9 screen and set to the correct distance and zoom to fill the screen, if a 2.35:1 movie is played, will the width of the screen still be filled and just have the bars on top and bottom of the picture without needing to re-adjust the projector all the time to fill the screen (zoom and resize)? Same applies with 4:3 content (understanding there will be bars to the left and right with 4:3 content).

The reason I ask is I had an older DELL 16:9 720p projector and everytime the aspect ratio of the content changed, the projector had to be re-zoomed etc to fit... annoying!

Bottom line, I'm hoping once setup in 16:9 correctly, it will just work like playing content on a HDTV (with the bars around the image depending on content played, but auto sized to fit the screen appropriately).

Thanks in advance for your help.

After a lot of research on these two projectors I decided the Epson is best for me as it is brighter and I am going with a 135" 16:9 screen.

Dave.

I assume you've read the Projector Central and the Projector Review comparisons of the 5010 to the AE7000D. (The Projector Central review comparison is at the end of the Mitsubishi HC7800D review.) The Projector Central comparison is interesting because they expand on their original statement about preferring the 2D blacks on the AE7000D over the 5010. In mid-level brightness they prefer the AE7000D blacks. In dark levels, they prefer the 5010 blacks and shadow detail. However, they also say that you wouldn't notice the difference in the picture without side by side comparison and even then it is close.

All reviews are unanimous that the 5010 is significantly brighter. Both projectors use the same Epson LCD panel which helps explain why there isn't much difference in picture quality. For me, it was a tradeoff between the brightness of the 5010 with its pixel adjustment (whether or not it is motorized is still up for debate), and the motorized lens on the AE7000D. My projector is in a separate projector room. My previous projector had motor controlled lens and I hated to give that up. But I have a 133" screen and my projector location puts it near the far telephoto end of the lens so brightness was the major consideration.

If it comes to flipping a coin and brightness isn't an issue, I'd compare the list of features of each projector and pick the one whose features are most important to you.

As to your 16:9 screen question, yes, the Epson (and probably all other 16:9 projectors) works the way you stated.

Just concluded three days of daytime viewing and have to say there is no doubt about it...the 5010 is substantially better at handling ambient light that the old Mits. With the Mits, a little background light (even indoor lights) left me seeing only the brighter parts of images. The only way to get back the full picture was to pull the blinds closed or turn out the lights.

With the Epson I haven't felt this need at all, at least not when viewing standard material like sitcoms and sports. So much already stands out from the background light that I could only imagine having to do this for darker movies, or maybe certain types of games.

Speaking of gaming, I fired up the PC and logged some time there too. Unfortunately, I have to report that the dreaded lag is for real on the 5010. It was obvious as soon as I started clicking around the desktop...my brain just started telling me something wasn't quite right as I swept the mouse around the screen. Convinced that lag was in play, I performed a little test using my digital camera and found that on average, the 5010 was 88ms behind a 23" LCD monitor I also had sitting around. I didn't compare to my Mits because it's already packed away, but I might see if I can do so because now I'm curious how it would've scored.

I did end up playing some games anyway, and would say that if you're a serious gamer you should probably look elsewhere. I'm more the casual type, playing maybe 2-4 hours a week so the lag is not a deal breaker for me. However, it is definitely a factor when playing FPS-style games and definitely can get under your skin at all the wrong times...

On the plus side, the Epson was giving me WAY more shadow detail in Crysis, truly a major improvement over the Mits. As an example, I had been struggling to get through one of the darker levels using the Mits a few weeks back. On Sunday, using the Epson I breezed through on the first try because I could finally see what the heck was going on! And it wasn't because the gamma was cranked up or anything like that, it was more that the Mits always seemed to fade to black in areas that should've really been dark gray. I'm tempted to start the game over now just to see all the detail I missed the first time around.

As far as comparing the 5010 to a plasma is concerned, I can't really offer much. I did take a trip through my local Frys before I took the dive, but honestly the plasmas were just too small! I guess I've been spoiled by 5+ years of viewing a 106" screen and there's no turning back now. My wife was of the same opinion, so I crossed that option off my list right then and there.

Received my 5010e a few days before Christmas and thought i'd post a few comments.

Set up is a 135" Elunevision tab tensioned reference screen. Projector is mounted about 14' back. Theatre room is not completely light controlled but is in the basement so also not many light sources.

This is my first projector so don't have much to compare it to, however, for any high def source the picture is simply amazing. Watched Hubble 3D and Under the Sea IMAX and the 3D is better than any 3D IMAX or theatre i've seen.

Tried the 2d to 3d conversion out on Star Wars Ep VI Blue Ray and Polar Express and the effect in normal mode is fairly good. Kids certainly thought it was pretty cool.

2D sources are excellent as well. The colour as several have mentioned is pretty spot on out of the box.

Played a few XBox games - Halo Anniversary (in both 2D and 3D) and Skyrim mostly. Don't notice any lag vs the usual Pani Plasma. Again, the picture quality is pretty amazing and you can't beat it for almost literally being in the action.

Can't say i have any complaints. Only quirk i've noticed is that the wireless hd seems to interfere with the remote for my tv box (telus). Occasionally the remote will stop working for a few minutes.

Also now need to invest in a good universal remote with five remotes now to juggle!

It is probably NOT the HDMI repeated - it is MOST LIKELY the
IR transmitter sending 3D to your GLASSES.

Hello again...

Now I have tried the thing with the pixel-alignment. It works as follows:

1. Switch on the PJ

2. Press and hold the Menu-Button for 8 sec.

3. Press the ESC-Button twice

Now a new Window with Informations about the Beamer appears. With the
"Arrow-right" and "Arrow-left"-Button you can see several other Information-Windows.

4. Press again the Menu-Button for 8 sec.
5. Press again the ESC-Button twice.

Now a new Windows appears. On the left side you see 6 lines named
"DIP-SW1" to "DIP-SW 6". Move with the "Arrow-down-Button" to "DIP-SW 6" and press "Enter".

On the right side there are 8 lines named "Bit 0" to "Bit 7" and then "0" and "1" with a white (=deactivated) or green (=activated) Rectangle before the 0 or 1.

Move now with the "Arrow-down"-Button to the line named "Bit 5" and then activate with the "Arrow-right"-Button.

Don't change other bits or DIP-Switches!

Now press Enter and then leave the menu by pressing ESC twice.

Now switch off the PJ and then on again.

Now you can find a new submenu named "LCD Alignment" in the "Advanced"-Submenu. Here you can adjust the pixel alignment, you can activate or deactivate the adjustments or reset them.

The "LCD Alignment"-submenu will appear now permanently in the "Advanced"-Submenu until you deactivate "Bit 5" in DIP-SW 6.

The function of the other bits and DIP-Switches is unknown so far...I will play with them a bit and then report here...

Warning: As the function of the other bits and DIP-Switches is unknown, any change might cause problems and/or void warranty...so use it on your own risk...!

Best wishes from good old germany
Michael

Yes I notice this while watching Direct TV 3D, my remote only works once in a while.

Both

OK, what's the best way to know what screen sizes would be supported by the 5010 or 6010 at a given distance? I'm using this:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...ulator-pro.htm

When I put in 14 feet for the distance from the projector to the screen, it's showing me a screen width of 106" - does that mean that's the largest possible screen I can use from 14 feet away? Or is that the smallest screen size? I'm assuming that the projector's zoom feature would give me a range to work with, but I'm not sure how to determine what that range would be from 14 feet away.