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Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread - Page 15

post #421 of 3038
1/3/12 at 3:22pm
Thanks my PJ dealer was great to work with but he only carries the higher end screen Black Diamond I might end up with one if the screen gets pushed back further.
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post #422 of 3038
1/3/12 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

3D HDMI cable?

Hi, so far I can only find max 25' high speed HDMI cable but as I am planning to buy the 5010 and the ceiling mount is like 32' from the AVR after going through the ceiling, could a 35 or 40' standard speed HDMI cable do the job?

Or buy adding a HDMI extender in between 2 20' high speed HDMI cable would do the job as well?

Any of the HDBaseT HDMI to Cat5e/6 setup without needing a power source that can use for my setup?

so, which is best for a 3D 5010 and most cost efficient?

1. 40' standard speed HDMI cable

2. 2 x 20' (or any combination that made up to 40') high speed HDMi cable + a HDMI extender

3. 2 x 1m HDMI 1.4a cable + HDbaseT Cat5e/6 network cable (40-50'), or

4. Just get the 5010e version and save the cable problem (but how about performance?)

I have about 35' feet also that I have to run through the ceiling. I think i'm going to do the Rainbow Fish fiber optic HDMI so I wont have to run it again.
I also wonder how well the wireless HD signal does.
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post #423 of 3038
1/4/12 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arts715 View Post

I also wonder how well the wireless HD signal does.

I have the 5010e, but no screen yet. I will provide some further observations (and questions) in a separate post, but can say that the wireless HDMI works very well, with minor exception. Wireless setup was a breeze and took literally a minute or two. One issue I have encountered is it seems you must turn off the wireless transmitter each time you turn the projector off and then turn it on when ready to use again. Otherwise the signal does not lock in and I get a message that wireless connection "failed." Not a big issue, since it makes sense to turn it off when not in use. Further, on New Year's eve, we had alot of people in the room and the signal went blank a few times, which I am guessing was because there were too many people standing between the transmitter and the projector. However as it is supposed to work through walls and my projector is only approx. 12 feet from the transmitter and ceiling mounted, this is a bit disappointing. I should note, the transmitter is in an open unit about 3 feet off the ground and sending an HDMI signal from the output of my Pioneer Elite receiver.
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post #424 of 3038
1/4/12 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Extreme lens shift may cause chromatic abrasion.
2 pixels off is to much. Get a replacement.

Btw: if you search the jvc rs45 thread, people have claimed/seen convergence look worse when a good amount of lens shift is used.


I want to buy this projector and was happy to see the pixel alignment feature. I've been a DLP user before this and never had to look at alignment issues. But is it true it's still not a cure for a projector with bad alignment, say 2 pixels off, and one must return for a replacement in that situation anyway? How useful is the pixel alignment?
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post #425 of 3038
1/4/12 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpappas View Post

But is it true it's still not a cure for a projector with bad alignment, say 2 pixels off, and one must return for a replacement in that situation anyway? How useful is the pixel alignment?

There are two issues with the Epson 5010/6010 pixel alignment. The first is that it is not enabled in the European version. There is a way to turn that feature on but it may violate their warranty if they do that.

The second (and only pixel alignment issue I know of for U.S. buyers) is that despite Epson referring to this as "Motorized Pixel Alignment", it appears to be a software-only feature. This can still fix alignment to less than one pixel but can't move in increments smaller than one pixel. (It apparently fakes it by reducing the intensity of one pixel and increasing it in the adjacent pixel so it appears it is moving in sub-pixel increments.)

Regardless of how the Epson pixel alignment feature actually works, it certainly does provide the ability to converge close enough that you once you are done aligning it you can't see any misconvergence more than 2 or 3 feet from the screen, or at least I can't on my 133" screen.

Even with nearly perfect convergence, you'll probably be giving up a little bit of single-chip DLP sharpness when you go to any other type of projector. Whether this is worth the advantages of the Epson 5010/6010 (brightness, contrast, etc.), is your call.
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post #426 of 3038
1/4/12 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpappas View Post

I want to buy this projector and was happy to see the pixel alignment feature. I've been a DLP user before this and never had to look at alignment issues. But is it true it's still not a cure for a projector with bad alignment, say 2 pixels off, and one must return for a replacement in that situation anyway? How useful is the pixel alignment?

Yes, if it's 2 pixels off, get it exchanged.

The pixel alignment will help if you are 1 pixel or less off and only to a certain degree.

This is because usually when a pixel is off alignment, it's usually not the entire screen but in certain areas. So you can do some tweaking and get it close to "perfect" or an acceptable tolerance.

*Even with pixel alignment, I don't believe there is any 3LCD/LCOS projector capable of perfect convergence.
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post #427 of 3038
1/4/12 at 11:12am
Thanks! Straight up information like this is very helpful and appreciated.

My basement ceiling is 7 feet high which worked fine with the Infocus 4805 ceiling mounted, but I'm thinking I need Lens shift when I upgrade to HD. I might stick with the Epson but now I can be realistic about this alignment feature.
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post #428 of 3038
1/4/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Yes, if it's 2 pixels off, get it exchanged.

The pixel alignment will help if you are 1 pixel or less off and only to a certain degree.

This is because usually when a pixel is off alignment, it's usually not the entire screen but in certain areas. So you can do some tweaking and get it close to "perfect" or an acceptable tolerance.

I disagree. Many of my 5010's red pixels were off by at least 2 pixels out of the box. After pixel alignment, the worst misalignment anywhere on the screen is 1/2 of a pixel or less. I believe you should be able to correct to 1/2 pixel or less any misalignment of up to 3 pixels (24 steps at 1/8 pixel per step) anywhere on the screen using the 5010/6010 pixel alignment feature. You can align small areas (I forget how many) separately. Like any convergence option I've ever used, this effects adjacent areas to lesser degrees but repeated convergence should be able to bring the entire screen into close alignment unless there is some serious optical problem unrelated to LCD panel misalignment.
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post #429 of 3038
1/4/12 at 12:15pm
Replacing my older HS20, with the 6010. Can't wait to finally get an upgrade. I was wondering if anyone had experience or knows if my HDMI switch will work with 3D material. My older Onkyo isn't hdmi and wanted to save some cable runs. Will be connecting to a Panasonic 3D player and Dish 722. The switch in question is here,

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Supports high-resolution display settings:
480p, 720p, and 1080i(with up to 50ft Monoprice 28AWG, 24AWG, and 22AWG Tin and Silver-Plated Copper HDMI® cables)
1080p(with up to 25ft Monoprice 24AWG, and 22AWG Tin and Silver-Plated Copper HDMI® cables)

Its been a great product for what I've used it for. Thanks

Oh, cable run is app. 15' to my projector.
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post #430 of 3038
1/4/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnabq View Post

Replacing my older HS20, with the 6010. Can't wait to finally get an upgrade. I was wondering if anyone had experience or knows if my HDMI switch will work with 3D material. My older Onkyo isn't hdmi and wanted to save some cable runs. Will be connecting to a Panasonic 3D player and Dish 722. The switch in question is here, ......

I don't know about your switch, but when I tried to use this 3D rated splitter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
Neither my 3D Blu-ray player nor DirecTV would recognize my 5010 as a 3D ready projector. When I connected the projector directly, everything was ok.
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post #431 of 3038
1/4/12 at 5:44pm
[The is with the Epson generated pattern.[/quote]


Quick question, Is there only one Epson generated pattern? I have the 6010 and installed it myself with the mount. Everything was close but not quite with menus left to right the bottom was uneven. CBS telecast of the UK/Lville game included a boarder during Seth Davis half time analysis. I used that to go back and check that the projector, mount were level. I was able to dial it in pretty well I think. Glad the Epson is a very forgiving projector to install.

I need to look again I didn't get a manual with the projector or is that whats on the CD that came with it. There was a manual for the mount but I don't recall seeing one for the projector. I would think my only real disapointment is the noise level in the standard mode. Eco is fine but the standard is to loud. I still haven't watched 3d, need to buy a 3d blueray.
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post #432 of 3038
1/4/12 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbm911 View Post

I just installed the 5010 (106" screen, PJ mounted appox 11.5 feet (where old one was)). Got the picture lined up on screen even and fully hitting the top and the bottom of the screen. I was able to line it up the sides perfectly straight with no keystone. However, the picture extends 1.4 inches over the screen on each side (its into the black border, but even/same 1 1/4 " from top to bottom and on each side).

How do I adjust the sides in without losing the height or screwing up the straight sides?


Thanks

It's not the Epson, its my screen! I just measured my screen (a 4 year old Elite tensioned 1.0 ) ). It measured 91 by 52 1/2 . Therefore it's actually 2 1/3 inches too narrow for its height. Instead of a true 16 / 9 it's more like 15.6 / 9. So, the projected image is about right, the screen is too narrow! The funny thing is although I used it with my last PJ (a BenQ PE8700+) for years and didn't see any apparent overscan., in retrospect maybe it was there, but the projector was so dim compared to this one that the image didn't reflect through the border enough for me to notice it.

Sorry Epson! Curse you Elite!
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post #433 of 3038
1/5/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post

I don't know about your switch, but when I tried to use this 3D rated splitter
Neither my 3D Blu-ray player nor DirecTV would recognize my 5010 as a 3D ready projector. When I connected the projector directly, everything was ok.

I have the same splitter and it is doing fine with my pj. Try to do a power cycle of the splitter after all devices are connected and powered up. After that test your 3D again.
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post #434 of 3038
1/5/12 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
The picture looks fine from normal viewing distance but I noticed that if I look at the Main menu text from a foot away, it seems like there is a ghosting/blur above each letter.

So I decided to pull up the LCD alignment menu and noticed that some of the vertical lines(mostly on the left side to the middle) look a little blurred to the point that I can not see pixels moving when I tried to adjust them.

Anyone else notice that the vertical lines look blurred compared to the horizontal lines when viewing the LCD alignment issue or ghosting above the text when viewing the Main menu from a foot away?

*Not sure if this has to do with the amount of lens shift I'm using or not and seeing some kind of distortion. I did not notice this when I first setup the projector.
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post #435 of 3038
1/5/12 at 7:14am
So, I know that the 5010 has the ability/flexibility to be placed in a variety of locations, and through vertical and/or horizontal lens shifting to still fill a screen properly, but what is the ideal location, to minimize the need for the lens shifting? Even with the top of the screen?
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post #436 of 3038
1/5/12 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettStah View Post

So, I know that the 5010 has the ability/flexibility to be placed in a variety of locations, and through vertical and/or horizontal lens shifting to still fill a screen properly, but what is the ideal location, to minimize the need for the lens shifting? Even with the top of the screen?

Mine is even with the top of screen but ideal is no lens shift at all.
Meaning projector is about centered with the screen.
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post #437 of 3038
1/5/12 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Mine is even with the top of screen but ideal is no lens shift at all.
Meaning projector is about centered with the screen.

Ah... well, that won't work at all in the room, so I'll be using vertical lens shift!
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post #438 of 3038
1/5/12 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

The picture looks fine from normal viewing distance but I noticed that if I look at the Main menu text from a foot away, it seems like there is a ghosting/blur above each letter.

I'm right there with you on this one Plasmaman. I noticed this also while watching the weather report (bright text with hard edges) but now I see it everywhere if I'm close to the screen. I'm using ceiling mount which is a few inches above the top of the screen so I'm using a lot of v-shift, which I think is the source of the issue.

I ran a few patterns using my PC to investigate further. I ran a black background and then set a few white pixels at various locations around the screen. I noticed that all the pixels have a little comet tail that goes up and to the left, just about 11 o'clock. The tail is about 1-2 pixels long, but fortunately isn't nearly as bright as the pixel itself. I also observed that the tail is longer and more noticeable the lower down the screen I go.

I tried cleaning the lens hoping that it might be due to dust/smearing, but saw no improvement.

I'm still not sure why they go the left because I'm not using the h-shift at all. I'd really like to run this test with the PJ center-aligned to the screen, but doubt I'll get that motivated to take it off the mount for such a test...if I do, I'll post the results so we can see if it's truly a product of lens shift.
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post #439 of 3038
1/5/12 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

I'm right there with you on this one Plasmaman. I noticed this also while watching the weather report (bright text with hard edges) but now I see it everywhere if I'm close to the screen. I'm using ceiling mount which is a few inches above the top of the screen so I'm using a lot of v-shift, which I think is the source of the issue.

I ran a few patterns using my PC to investigate further. I ran a black background and then set a few white pixels at various locations around the screen. I noticed that all the pixels have a little comet tail that goes up and to the left, just about 11 o'clock. The tail is about 1-2 pixels long, but fortunately isn't nearly as bright as the pixel itself. I also observed that the tail is longer and more noticeable the lower down the screen I go.

I tried cleaning the lens hoping that it might be due to dust/smearing, but saw no improvement.

I'm still not sure why they go the left because I'm not using the h-shift at all. I'd really like to run this test with the PJ center-aligned to the screen, but doubt I'll get that motivated to take it off the mount for such a test...if I do, I'll post the results so we can see if it's truly a product of lens shift.

I believe we are seeing the same thing.
I also have mine ceiling mounted at center about even with the top of the screen.
So only using vertical lens shift.

Have you looked at your LCD alignment screen/grid?
On mine, most of the vertical lines from center to the left have some sort of ghosting/blooming. The horizontal lines look nice and clean.
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post #440 of 3038
1/5/12 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I believe we are seeing the same thing.
I also have mine ceiling mounted at center about even with the top of the screen.
So only using vertical lens shift.

Have you looked at your LCD alignment screen/grid?
On mine, most of the vertical lines from center to the left have some sort of ghosting/blooming. The horizontal lines look nice and clean.

I'm seeing the same thing with the same positioning. Horizontal lines are clean.
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post #441 of 3038
1/5/12 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shk_sg View Post

I have the same splitter and it is doing fine with my pj. Try to do a power cycle of the splitter after all devices are connected and powered up. After that test your 3D again.

I guess I should have experimented more. I have already run a second HDMI cable. I managed to find another use for the splitter.
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post #442 of 3038
1/5/12 at 4:51pm
I heard that Epson will be releasing firmware to fix the terrible input lag for gaming on the 5010. Is that true or just a rumor?
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post #443 of 3038
1/5/12 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassage View Post

I heard that Epson will be releasing firmware to fix the terrible input lag for gaming on the 5010. Is that true or just a rumor?

May be you can start with you posting your source and we can back track from there.
Also, how does someone propose the FW update be done ?
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post #444 of 3038
1/5/12 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Also, how does someone propose the FW update be done ?

It does have an RS-232 connector on it.
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post #445 of 3038
1/5/12 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassage View Post

I heard that Epson will be releasing firmware to fix the terrible input lag for gaming on the 5010. Is that true or just a rumor?

I find this very doubtful. Gamer mode is a feature. Consumer Electronic guys define features well ahead of any product development and then develop the product to those features. They don't add features after a product is released.

Epson marketing said it wasn't important this year, IMHO. You know, sadly they are probably right. At least until

1) more people complain
2) reviewers start taking lag seriously and include it in official reviews

I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

... Altan

(FWIW, I tried writing Mike Isgrig at Epson (VP consume sales / marketing) about this in early december. Either he didn't get my email or he didn't respond...)
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post #446 of 3038
1/5/12 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

It does have an RS-232 connector on it.

lol
Ya, because every PC has a serial port.
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post #447 of 3038
1/5/12 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

May be you can start with you posting your source and we can back track from there.
Also, how does someone propose the FW update be done ?

http://larchive.avsforum.com/www.avs...9#post21337659

sorry, that was for the 3010, not the 5010. my mistake. but if they can fix it for the 3010, maybe they can do it for the 5010?

I got around to calling customer support about the latency issue when console gaming, and I had a bit more luck than others who have tried to contact Epson about it. I had to force my way past several customer service associates who tried to tell me to try a different HDMI cable or game console, but I finally got high enough in the ranks that I got to talk to someone who actually knew what they were talking about.
They assured me that they are very aware of the problem and are working to fix it as quickly as possible through a firmware update. They didn't have any sort of estimate or details on a release, but they promised a fix and would contact me with any information that came up.
If Epson comes through with this, I will be a very happy camper.
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post #448 of 3038
1/5/12 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

I'm right there with you on this one Plasmaman. I noticed this also while watching the weather report (bright text with hard edges) but now I see it everywhere if I'm close to the screen. I'm using ceiling mount which is a few inches above the top of the screen so I'm using a lot of v-shift, which I think is the source of the issue.

I ran a few patterns using my PC to investigate further. I ran a black background and then set a few white pixels at various locations around the screen. I noticed that all the pixels have a little comet tail that goes up and to the left, just about 11 o'clock. The tail is about 1-2 pixels long, but fortunately isn't nearly as bright as the pixel itself. I also observed that the tail is longer and more noticeable the lower down the screen I go.

I tried cleaning the lens hoping that it might be due to dust/smearing, but saw no improvement.

I'm still not sure why they go the left because I'm not using the h-shift at all. I'd really like to run this test with the PJ center-aligned to the screen, but doubt I'll get that motivated to take it off the mount for such a test...if I do, I'll post the results so we can see if it's truly a product of lens shift.

I done some testing with lens shift and confirmed this blooming/ghosting issue is from vertical lens shift.
If I center my lens shift, the blooming/ghosting is gone.

Also, if you have the AVS calibration disc, there is a convergence cross hatch pattern.
If you display the one with the small squares with the dot in each square, the dots are now actually dots when the lens shift is centered(no lens shift).

If I have the vertical lens shift back where I need it for ceiling mount and projector level with the top of my screen, the dots have the blooming/swoosh going to the left like you described.
Not all dots but primarily from the center to the left.

*The zoom does not appear to be causing any issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if others have this issue if they are using a good amount of vertical lens shift. You have to be about 1-2 feet from the screen to see this issue.

*My screen is 117" and projector is about 15 feet away.

I'm going to get a 6" pipe for my ceiling mount and see if I can curb the issue some what by using less vertical lens shift.
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post #449 of 3038
1/5/12 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I done some testing with lens shift and confirmed this blooming/ghosting issue is from vertical lens shift.
If I center my lens shift, the blooming/ghosting is gone.

Also, if you have the AVS calibration disc, there is a convergence cross hatch pattern.
If you display the one with the small squares with the dot in each square, the dots are now actually dots when the lens shift is centered(no lens shift).

If I have the vertical lens shift back where I need it for ceiling mount and projector level with the top of my screen, the dots have the blooming/swoosh going to the left like you described.
Not all dots but primarily from the center to the left.

*The zoom does not appear to be causing any issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if others have this issue if they are using a good amount of vertical lens shift. You have to be about 1-2 feet from the screen to see this issue.

*My screen is 117" and projector is about 15 feet away.

I'm going to get a 6" pipe for my ceiling mount and see if I can curb the issue some what by using less vertical lens shift.

Does the projector have to be EXACTLY centered to eliminate blurring or can there be SOME vertical shift and still be okay? I have my projectors on a rack in the back and it's "close" to being in the center but might need some slight vertical shift.
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post #450 of 3038
1/5/12 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I done some testing with lens shift and confirmed this blooming/ghosting issue is from vertical lens shift.
If I center my lens shift, the blooming/ghosting is gone.

Also, if you have the AVS calibration disc, there is a convergence cross hatch pattern.
If you display the one with the small squares with the dot in each square, the dots are now actually dots when the lens shift is centered(no lens shift).

If I have the vertical lens shift back where I need it for ceiling mount and projector level with the top of my screen, the dots have the blooming/swoosh going to the left like you described.
Not all dots but primarily from the center to the left.

*The zoom does not appear to be causing any issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if others have this issue if they are using a good amount of vertical lens shift. You have to be about 1-2 feet from the screen to see this issue.

*My screen is 117" and projector is about 15 feet away.

I'm going to get a 6" pipe for my ceiling mount and see if I can curb the issue some what by using less vertical lens shift.

Glad to hear you were able to confirm it is the lens shift, you saved me quite a bit of work! If you get that pipe please post what (if any) relief it provides. My setup prevents me from mounting the unit any lower, but I suppose I could move my screen up a few inches instead.

Just to close the loop on your earlier post, I also noticed that my vertical lines are sharp and only the horizontal lines have blooming. Seems all three primary colors are about equally affected, and all are worse towards the bottom of the screen (greatest angle from the centerline).

I'm going to fire up the PJ tomorrow to see if the effect is uniform across the screen or if it impacts one area more than another (using white dots). Though it's a bit off topic, I have noticed that I cannot seem to get the lower right part of my screen into focus no matter how much I adjust the ring. Now I'm wondering if that's where I'll see the most dramatic evidence of this effect.

One question I have though...when you did ran your test w/o lens shift, how were the corners? I'm wondering if there was some slight blooming as you get away from the center of the screen even with shift disabled.
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