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Bluray: not seeing a difference?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
My BDT-210 came in on Thursday. My first disc was The Dark Knight (which I bought at Bestbuy for $5) and my second disc was Avatar, which I rented from Netflix. Both are on Bluray.

Oddly enough, I did not see the huge jump in detail that I expected, I'm not sure if I'm doing anything wrong. My tv is a 1080p set (TH-42PZ80U), and is connected via HDMI to the 210. I made sure that the connection was outputting 1080p, and I decided to let the player convert the 24p to 60frames (but maybe the TV would do a better job?).

In terms of picture quality, I really didn't see much of a difference. The couch is relatively close to the tv (~8ft, if that), so I don't think that is a problem. I watched the Dark Knight on DVD years ago, but I remember that it looked about the same. This doesn't really make sense, since the resolution is so much higher.

Does anyone know what I might be doing wrong?
post #2 of 19
8' is too far for such a small TV. 4' to 5.5' would be a much better viewing distance.

Also what are you comparing your BD's to (DVD, OTA, cable,...)? Are you A/B the sources in real time at the same spot or relying on memory?
post #3 of 19
It sounds from your comment as though you're comparing a BD of "The Dark Knight" to a DVD of the movie you remember seeing years ago, and that your viewing distance is too far from the TV set. First, try sitting closer; a recommended distance for HD is usually about 1 1/2 times the diagonal size of your screen (e.g., sit 60" from a 40" screen). Second, hook up your old DVD player to the TV alongside the new BD player. Put the BD of "The Dark Knight" in the BD player and the DVD of "The Dark Knight" in the other. Then switch back and forth and compare (in exact pause positions as well as in full-motion scenes). If you don't see a difference, perhaps something is wrong with your connections, cables, or eyesight.

Also, double check to see that your BD player is outputting at 1080p and 24fps. Then check your TV; assuming you haven't had it calibrated professionally, set its output to a normal or neutral color setting, with all internal processing (DNR, sharpness, etc.) turned way down or off.

It's also possible you're just expecting too much. Every Blu-ray disc I've ever compared to its equivalent DVD has looked better, but some far more so than others.

John
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi. It may very well be that 8' is too far for this TV. As my living room is very small, the very maximum screen size I could have had was ~47", but that would have required some significant alterations to the TV cabinet. The 42" fit perfectly in the cabinet. There is also no space for surround sound, so I can't experience the second benefit of Bluray.

In terms of sitting closer to the TV, would that not cause damage to the eyes? I remember that myopia is the eye's natural protection to unnaturally close reading/activity, since it accommodates to the activity by "pushing it back."

I had nothing to compare the BDs to, I thought that they would blow me away, so to speak, by their quality alone. I must admit that the close up scenes were very detailed (e.g. I was able to see Morgan Freeman's wrinkles very sharply), but during the rest of the movie, I didn't seem to notice that it was different. It seemed a bit better than OTA HD like CBS. One of my better experiences with HD is with sports. Sports in HD looks VERY good.

I did a rough measure from the TV to the back of the seating area, and it was about 2.2meters. Since my tape measure only goes up to 2m, I had to estimate the last 0.2m.

John, I think your advice to A/B the Dark Knight is an excellent idea. Given that it is one of the better BD releases, it is an idea film to test. My local library has a copy of the film on DVD. I'll go borrow it tomorrow, and do an A/B test.

The 210 is outputting 1080p, but not 24p. I could make the player output 24p, but since the tv doesn't support it, it would have to convert back to 60fps.

I thought calibration might be an issue.
I never had my screen calibrated by myself or professionally, and when I bought the TV, I just set it to the settings mentioned here, in the first thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1019763

Picture: +70
Brightness: +48
Color: +44
Tint: -3
Sharpness: 0
Color temp: Warm
Color mgmt: Off
x.v.Color: Off
C.A.T.S.: Off

Advanced Picture Settings:
Video N/R: Off
Black level: Light
HD size: Size 1

These may not be ideal, but it seemed fine. Maybe I should borrow one of the calibration discs and get it done myself, although I am not exactly confident about my ability.

The player is left in its default setting, (I believe it is called cinema) although it can be changed. If I calibrate my TV for Cable, for example, will I need to recalibrate for the 210?
post #5 of 19
TV's differ. I don't know about yours. With some sets, like my Sony, you can adjust the settings for each input. You might try deeper black levels, less backlight, tint at 0, and color setting neutral rather than warm, by the way.

Experiment with the settings in a darkened room using a still picture you know is accurate, especially one containing realistic skin tones. Get the picture as close as possible to something that looks natural to you.

Sitting closer won't harm your eyes, either. Try it. Try to duplicate the experience of a professional movie theater with you sitting in the middle of it.

John
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbird3216 View Post

My BDT-210 came in on Thursday. My first disc was The Dark Knight (which I bought at Bestbuy for $5) and my second disc was Avatar, which I rented from Netflix. Both are on Bluray.

Are you sure it is the BD? I've never seen TDK for 5.00 anywhere.

One more thing, at 8 feet you should still see a big difference. My sister has a 37" 1080p LCD, and HD content is still noticable from the furthest viewing distance in the room. I have a 42" 3D LCD in my spare bedroom and it looks great at 7' (the farthest I can sit).

Either you aren't watching a BD, or something is wrong in your setup.

Art
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi John,
My particular model allows me to have different settings for each input, so that would allow me to tweak settings that are right for each source.

I watched the beginning scene, at ~60inches away from the TV. I must say, it was a pretty nice experience. The clarity of the picture definitely held up at that distance, and it was pretty detailed. But I don't know about the stigma with sitting that close. My parents always taught me not to sit so close to the TV, and scientifically speaking, it does make sense as to the consequences (although it has apparently been "debunked"). Then there's the fact that I have to be a role model for others...

Art, it was a Black Friday sale at Best Buy. I had the last copy.
I thought that I should see the differences at ~7ft too, but it didn't seem like much. Can someone do an A/B with different distances and sources, to see if they can notice the difference? I was planning on doing it with a DVD copy of TDK, but my Library didn't have one, so I'll have to do an interlibrary loan.
post #8 of 19
What your parents used to tell you was about old CRTs and some people had a fear that it could leak ionising radiation because it's a cathode ray tube. In the old days some people even mount a screen in front. Before LCD computer monitors came out people sat right in front of their CRT monitors.

Part of the reason you don't get the WOW, apart from the things already mentioned, could be that some film grain could mask some details and that can vary from scene to scene. Watch some recent animation and see. I've always noticed it's the fine details that make the most difference, like text on the book, road signs, facial wrinkles and end credits (the biggest difference).

If there's a setting on the display for 1:1 pixel mapping you should enable it.

If you've not seen it there are charts which show distance v. perceived resolution.

Don't feel obliged to sit closer to the TV for the sake of more details. It's your TV and do whatever you're most comfortable with. I can't sit too close because I'm light sensitive and just feel uncomfortable watching things too close.
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbird3216 View Post

My parents always taught me not to sit so close to the TV, and scientifically speaking, it does make sense as to the consequences (although it has apparently been "debunked"). Then there's the fact that I have to be a role model for others...

As I'm writing this, I'm sitting a foot and a half away from a 23" Samsung PX2370 computer monitor. In fact, for thirty years now I've been sitting about a foot and a half from various computer screens, CRT, LCD, LED. It doesn't seem to have affected my eyesight any. So I say, take a chance.

John
post #10 of 19
I'm having the same issue as the OP - HD sports look great on my LG 42LV3500 LED set, but Blu Ray discs are "meh." I bought the 15th anniversary Apollo 13 blu ray with hopes to see a huge jump in quality over the DVD.

What I noticed is that colors seems "deeper." I tweaked my settings, lowering the black level to "low" and turning off the backlighting. This helped me distinguish between the DVD and blu ray a bit easier (especially during the take off sequence). Still, when I think of the normal film watching experience (sitting on the couch vs standing 6 inches from the screen ), they does not seem to be a HUGE leap from watching the DVD on my very old 53 inch Hitachi RPTV.

What am I missing?

Michael
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSilla View Post

What am I missing? --Michael

Spectacles?

If by now, years after the introduction of HD DVD and Blu-ray, some people still can't see any difference between standard and high def, I'd say it's time for those people just to fergetaboutit.

As an analogy, I enjoy music on a good sound system with accurate, floor-standing speakers (VMPS RM40s in my case) and audiophile-quality stereo music recordings, often ones remastered with loving care. Yet the vast majority of people in the world couldn't care less about sound quality and listen to their music on earbuds. All I can say at this point is, If you don't see a difference in HD over SD video quality, you don't see a difference. No one can argue you into seeing it. Live and let live.

John
post #12 of 19
The obvious thing he's missing is that Apollo 13 BD (and HD DVD) has a soft and grainy picture, possibly using an old master. Just because it's on an HD format does not guarantee that it will always deliver the maximum quality that format is capable of.

Another thing is, comparing a bright picture of HD sports shot with HD cameras to darker picture of old film transfer is kind of missing the point.
post #13 of 19
I have a 46'' Panasonic Plasma in my den and a 32'' Toshiba LCD in my bedroom. Both sets are only 720p. I have my Panasonic BDP DMP 85 set to auto for 24p and the resolution is set at 720p. I sit about 8ft from the Panny and about 5ft from the Toshiba. Most Blu-Rays I watch are 1080p movies and despite having to scale down to a lower resolution, the majority of them look stunning and have superior PQ over the films I watch on DVD.

Ian
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J. Puccio View Post

Spectacles?

If by now, years after the introduction of HD DVD and Blu-ray, some people still can't see any difference between standard and high def, I'd say it's time for those people just to fergetaboutit.

As an analogy, I enjoy music on a good sound system with accurate, floor-standing speakers (VMPS RM40s in my case) and audiophile-quality stereo music recordings, often ones remastered with loving care. Yet the vast majority of people in the world couldn't care less about sound quality and listen to their music on earbuds. All I can say at this point is, If you don't see a difference in HD over SD video quality, you don't see a difference. No one can argue you into seeing it. Live and let live.

John

Yeah, you flushed me

For whatever reason, I notice the superior quality of a 1080p picture while streaming Netflix or Vudu, but sometimes have a hard time appreciating it while watching a blu ray disc. I just watched Amadeus on Netflix streaming and was blown away. Ditto for Harry Potter Part 2 and Cars 2 on Vudu.

I ordered the Dark Knight on blu ray from Amazon. Will see if that is an equally stunning experience on my set.

Michael
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSilla View Post

Yeah, you flushed me

For whatever reason, I notice the superior quality of a 1080p picture while streaming Netflix or Vudu, but sometimes have a hard time appreciating it while watching a blu ray disc. I just watched Amadeus on Netflix streaming and was blown away. Ditto for Harry Potter Part 2 and Cars 2 on Vudu.

I ordered the Dark Knight on blu ray from Amazon. Will see if that is an equally stunning experience on my set.

Michael


I find Vudu to be have better PQ then Netflix. The Dark Night BD is one of the best I've seen. Enjoy!


Ian
post #16 of 19
The Dark Knight is a sort of botched release due to EE. Also, the movie itself is dark with very deep blacks and you should probably view it from a distance of 5~6 ft in a dark room. Try Transformers or Iron Man. They are a huge leap from their DVD counterparts.

The most important of all is checking your eyesight. People just don't do it and think their vision is normal. A visit to the Ophthalmologist should bring the true vision back on track.
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

The Dark Knight is a sort of botched release due to EE.

You must have seen a different copy then me.



Ian
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

You must have seen a different copy then me.



Ian

Yeah, many of us saw a different copy. Perhaps you should visit the TDK thread in Blu-ray section.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Yeah, many of us saw a different copy. Perhaps you should visit the TDK thread in Blu-ray section.


No problem. I'll make some copes, but they won't be cheap!



Ian
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