Greensboro, NC - HDTV - Page 220

Maybe because it isn't HD? There are no local stations producing news in HD, yet.

I'm going to share that one in my local threads!

Go ahead! I got it from an engineering bb!

ok, maybe it was a stupid question. and for that i apologize.

but i really don't get it. they're doing SOMETHING, but what is it? how does that picture look so much better than the 480i pic on analog? and, why the 16x9 picture (including the blue bars)?

it's like they're feeding the news in HD but as you said they aren't producing it in HD yet. so what they feed is a 4x3 image inside a 16x9 hd mask? why? just to make me ask questions?

again i'm sorry if this is a dumb question. as you know from my previous questions, i'm no expert, but i do try to understand this stuff.

-amos

Analog transmission OTA as specified by the National Television Standards Committee (also known as the NTSC) are based on late 1930's technology, revised as much as possible and still be backwards compatible. And herein lies the problem. For many years, the SD PQ in the studio has been better than what could be broadcast because whatever improvements that were made to the NTSC standard had to be compatible with ANY TV set that operated on the NTSC standard meaning that a NTSC manufactured TV from 1946 has to be able to operate in 2009.

In the digital world, they basically started with a clean slate and those SD images you are seeing is what we in the business have been seeing in house for years. The bandwidth of analog NTSC transmitted pictures are limited to 4.2 MHz. Digital SD is only limited to the bandwidth of the digital stream, which is 360 mbs which has a higher bandwidth resolution with no analog artifacts therefore it appears sharper. In 2003 when we put our current news set on line, posters in this thread asked if we had installed HD cameras because the set looked so sharp on digital. The studio cameras we currently use are 1995 vintage, but they are SD component cameras that go straight to SD digital at the camera head and so they do not have any of the NTSC artifacts and appear sharper than the same analog pictures when viewed via digital. You do a side-by-side comparison. Look at the picture on a digital set at the same time you view them on an analog set. It is the same picture, transmitted two different ways and you can see the NTSC artifacts on the analog where you do not see them on the digital signal.

As far as the difference in aspect ratio, analog transmissions are 4:3. Have been since the start. When digital began, depending on the format being transmitted, determined the aspect ratio of the picture. HD formats use 16:9 formats. Since you can't change resolution formats on the fly, the stations broadcast the same format no matter what the source resolution is. For WFMY, WXII and WCWG it is 1920x1080. For WGHP, WXLV, WMYV, it is 1280x720. Both HD formats use 16:9. For sources that are 480i 4:3, the must be converted to either 1080 or 720 and then either the 480 picture is stretched to fit the 16:9 screen which looks HORRIBLE, people become short and fat when you do that or you kept the 4:3 aspect and put side bars on the side to fill out the 16:9 screen so people don't look short and fat.

thanks!!! some of that, like the backward compatibility, i knew. but you sort of brought it all together for me with that.

just to clarify about the bars (and not changing resolution formats). does that mean that when i'm watching the OTA digital channels, and i see a 4x3 image with black bars, that the station is putting those bars on (as opposed to the tv set doing it?). i thought it was the tv set, but that does explain why one station had grey instead of black bars (i think that was one of the atlanta stations). so wxii is just putting blue bars on during their newscasts, i guess...

noticing their blue bars fooled me into thinking their picture was better than before, but that was only comparing it with the ntsc feed, i understand now.

amos

Yes, the bars are put on by the station.

Anyone know these people?

Super Bowl May Spur Fewer TV Sales as Retailers Fight Slump
By Chris Burrit, Bloomberg - January 30, 2009

With her new 46-inch flat-panel television mounted above the fireplace, Theresa Nelson is ready for the big game.

“I wanted a new TV before the Super Bowl,” said Nelson, a 45-year-old brewery engineer at MillerCoors LLC. She paid $1,499 for the Samsung Electronics Co. TV at the Best Buy in Greensboro, North Carolina. The TV, which replaced her 10-year-old set, was $600 off and better than Circuit City’s price, she said.

Best Buy Co., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and bankrupt Circuit City Stores Inc. are making a last push to sell as many TVs as possible before the Feb. 1 National Football League title game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Arizona Cardinals. Faced with the worst U.S. job market in almost 16 years and plummeting home prices, fewer people may buy new TVs to watch the game even as retailers offer deep discounts and interest-free loans.

“People are saying, ‘I want to see the Super Bowl in high definition,’” Gary Severson, senior vice president of home entertainment at Wal-Mart, said in a Jan. 23 telephone interview. “Customers are also looking for the best value they can find.”

The week before the Super Bowl is typically a peak for TV sales, and retailers are trying to fight off record lows in consumer confidence. Unemployment is close to a 16-year high, and home prices have fallen 25 percent on average since mid- 2006, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city index.

Even as more Americans plan to watch the Super Bowl, usually among the highest-rated broadcasts of the year, fewer will buy new TVs to view it, according to a BIGresearch survey for the Retail Advertising and Marketing Association, part of the National Retail Federation, a Washington trade group.

Mostly Food

The online poll of 8,850 adults conducted Jan. 1 through Jan. 8 found that 2.7 percent planned to buy a new TV for the game, down from 4.1 percent in 2008. An estimated 167 million adults may tune in to General Electric Co.’s NBC on Sunday, 9 million more than last year. They’ll spend $9.6 billion for the game, most of it on food and drink, the survey found.

U.S. flat-panel TV sales rose 25 percent to 16.3 million last year, according to NPD Group Inc., a market research firm based in Port Washington, New York. Growth slowed from a 59 percent increase in 2007, signaling that “market saturation and the economy” are eroding demand, said Stephen Baker, a consumer-electronics analyst for NPD.

Retailers in the U.S. sell more TVs during December and January because of the holidays and the Super Bowl, said Baker, who is based in Herndon, Virginia. Stores offer markdowns the week before the big game to exploit the surge, he said.

Newspaper Circulars

Newspaper circulars this week showed five discounted flat- panel TVs from Wal-Mart and six from Target Corp., plus price cuts on 11 sets in the first three pages of Best Buy’s flier. Among 39 flat-panel TVs displayed on the back wall of Wal-Mart’s store in Greensboro, 23 are discounted with “rollback” prices.

“This is the big event that causes them to purchase,” Josh Will, Best Buy’s vice president of televisions, said in a Jan. 28 telephone interview. He wouldn’t disclose January sales. “There’s not a huge urgency in February or March.”

Best Buy has outpaced Wal-Mart on the New York Stock Exchange since Nov. 10, when Circuit City, once the No. 2 U.S. electronics chain, sought bankruptcy protection. Richfield, Minnesota-based Best Buy has climbed 16 percent since then, while Wal-Mart has dropped 13 percent.

“I’m thinking big,” said Wal-Mart customer Tim Overby as he eyed a 42-inch flat-panel TV from Royal Philips Electronics NV. The set is marked down to $798 from $998 this week.

“I want to feel like I’m in the movie theater,” said Overby, 36, who was buying cleaning supplies Jan. 23 for his Greensboro tax-preparation service.

Free Installation

This month Best Buy offered free home installation of flat- panel TVs costing $999 or more “with the Super Bowl in mind,” said Doc Gower, home-theater manager in the Greensboro store.

The average price of a 42-inch plasma flat-panel TV was $902 last year, down from $1,181 in 2007 and $1,706 in 2006, according to NPD. Liquid crystal display TVs of the same size cost $982 last year on average, down 42 percent from $1,693 two years ago.

Wal-Mart, based in Bentonville, Arkansas, increased marketing and cut prices of consumer electronics this year. Its flat-panel TV sales jumped 25 percent the first weekend of January from a year earlier, Chief Executive Officer H. Lee Scott told the National Retail Federation’s annual conference in New York on Jan. 12. The company won’t comment on sales since then, Severson said.

In Greensboro, Overby said he may not be able to watch the game because of his second job as a machine operator at a Tyco International Ltd. factory. Still, he scoured newspaper circulars from Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City, which is liquidating, for the cheapest price for a big TV.

“Any way I can save money, I’m going to save money.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=exclusive

I meant to post this picture the other day and forgot to. Here is a picture of the completed conversion to digital on the stand by channel 8 transmitter. In the picture it is actually operating into the station dummy antenna even though it is a little tough to see it.

The bad thing about it is a lot of these people that want to buy a HDTV for the Super Bowl won't hook up an HD source to it. Instead they will just stretch the picture and think it is HD.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...14&newsLang=en

FoxENG, Exactly! As you've noted, no stations are currently broadcasting news in HD so the bars serve no purpose.

The Transition Date delay saga continues. The House has sent the FCC a letter requesting how many stations are operating at their post transition facilities who could turn off analog and not have to stay on analog until the new date arrives. By my count, there are approximately 1200 stations out of approximately 1800 stations that are operating with their post transition facilities. All stations in the Triad except WGHP are among that 1200. WGHP is among approximately 600 stations that need to change channels to complete the transition. 1200 plus 600 equals 1800. The House has requested the FCC provide that information by 3pm Tuesday, Feb 3rd. The letter was written today, Feb 2nd.

Bottom line, unless Congress mandates stations can't shutdown until the new date, something I don't think would stand constitutional muster, Congress can push the date all they want and it may not matter if stations decide to end analog on schedule. Best we (those on AVS) can tell via FCC on line records, approximately 600 stations have already applied for Feb 17th shutdown in case the date is pushed and more are on the way. That is the catalyst for this request of the FCC by the House. They are becoming alarmed at the number of stations preparing to bail out. They see the intent sliding away and they can't do anything about it.

Here is the URL for the letter:

http://republicans.energycommerce.ho...rman_Copps.pdf

Congress changes its mind all thr time, occasionally even in public.

Why do think delaying the shutdown is unconstitutional?

Mandating stations MUST remain on in analog may be unconstitutional. It is basically saying a company MUST sell a certain product because the government thinks that is a good thing to do.

but only if they want their license to broadcast on public air waves for the public good. I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV, but I think use of the public airwaves issue allows the government to say "Here are the rules. You don't have to like them." They used to require that favorite from my youth, the "pause for station identification."

On a related, one of the Tivo forums, somebody mentioned about transition plans for some stations including low power operations. Since we're talking about competing plans for frequency assignments, this seems like a good place for disaster. Any thought?

On a more distantly related topic, some companies want to starting using unused frequencies, apparently on a per market basis, for other uses. This sounds like disaster to me. John Q has his equipment designed for, say, Wilmington, and leaves it on as he drives to, say Roanoke, knocking out occasional stations along the way. I can see some guy driving up I-95 with the equipment sitting in his trunk, turned on and creating rolling blackous all the way up the coast. Am I right? Any thoughts?

The letter is a hoot. Congress sends it out to Mr. Copps yesterday expecting a detailed reply by 3pm today.

They expect to vote tomorrow on the legislation without any hearings to determine if the plan will work. "Unfortunate", indeed.

Oh, and if Acting Chairman Copps can not provide an exact number of stations that can transition before the delayed date, well how about his best guess.

As my Grandmother from Belfast used to say: "Saints preserve us".

Joe

Sometimes we get what we deserve. Remember this every time you vote.

Well we got our first scare today, related to the 2/17 analog cutoff. Our wireless microphones in the 698 and up mh range will be worthless. Oh, did I mention that I am producing Music Man Jr. right now and we open Feb 19?????

Since this has been posted on the FCC website I will post here. WGHP has filed to terminate analog service on channel 8 effective Feb 17th and to cease digital service on channel 35 and begin digital services on our aux tower on channel 8 also on Feb 17th.

So if I have a UHF only antenna I won't get 8 anymore OTA? I do get 8 from Directv.

It will depend on the antenna you have and how far away from the tower you are. DirecTV will carry our channel 8 DTV signal.

From CNN.com...
Rabbit ears get reprieve in digital TV delay
American TV viewers have four extra months to get ready for the day their local stations shut down their analog transmitters, thanks to a delay in the digital TV transition approved by Congress Wednesday. The House, by a vote of 264 to 158, passed a Senate bill that would reset the death of analog TV to June 12, a measure President Obama is expected to sign.

(sigh...)

The FCC claims that 61% of all stations can transition on Feb. 17 without the wait.

Let the confusion begin.

Joe

The FCC's figure is low. I'd guess more like 80% could when you include those like foxeng's station - going back to their old analog assignment for final DTV. How many WILL is an open question.

Maybe we can, maybe we can't. Our channel 8 digital is based on no analog stations on the air. With the extension, the FCC may not now allow us to go on channel 8 digital until June 12th citing analog interference issues. This legislation has given the FCC a legal reason to prevent some stations from transitioning. Are we one of them, I don't know yet. So even though we have filed to shut down on the 17th, the FCC ultimately may not allow us to. We have now been thrown into limbo. As of right now, every station in Triad CAN turn off analog if they want EXCEPT us because all they have to do is turn off an analog transmitter and they are finished with the transition.

It has also been announced the President will sign the bill either today or tomorrow officially pushing the date. Until that happens, and the FCC states what the new rules are, we have to continue as if the 17th is still the date, causing even MORE confusion about the date. What a mess.

Foxeng, couldn't you shut off analog on Feb 17th and then just wait till June 12th to move your digital channel back to VHF? Or is that just something you don't want to do?

I can't speak for management because I don't know they are thinking right now, but from a PR standpoint, since I will be the one directly dealing with it, I would rather not. The confusion factor would keep me on the phone 24/7. "You said digital 8 and then digital 35 and now back to digital 8." I can do without that.

Plus I don't know if the FCC will allow that in the new rules. It is all uncharted territory at the moment.

Believe me - I have a lot of sympathy for you and the others right now - Congress took something that should be (and was scheduled to be) clean and made a mess of it.

Here is a summary of the new transition rules released from the FCC that are valid when the bill is signed by the President.

1 - Stations that wish to terminate their analog signal transmission on February 17, are required to provide notice to the Commission and their viewers. Stations must notify the Commission no later than Monday, February 9, 2009 (11:59 p.m. EST), of their intention to terminate analog service on February 17.

2 - Stations that have already notified the Commission about their intention to terminate on February 17 must again notify the Commission confirming their intent to terminate on that date and their performance of the required viewer notifications.

3 - The Commission reserves the right to limit or reconsider this partial waiver in the event that it determines that analog termination on February 17 by a station or group of stations is contrary to the public interest. In such event, the Commission will promptly notify the affected station or stations.

4 - Stations terminating on February 17 are required to broadcast a crawl on their analog channel regarding the station’s termination of analog service, for the seven day period from February 10 (11:59 p.m. EST) through the termination of the station’s analog signal on February 17 (11:59 p.m. EST).


5 - Stations that terminate their analog service prior to the June 12 transition date, may operate only a digital facility that is approved for pre-transition service. Stations that want to begin operating prior to the transition date on a post-transition digital facility that differs from their pre-transition facility must first file a request for digital Special Temporary Authority (STA) to seek Commission approval for an early transition. A station may request permission to operate its post-transition facility before the transition deadline, provided it demonstrates that it will (1) not cause impermissible interference to any authorized analog or pre-transition digital stations; (2) maintain at least its current digital service; and (3) commence full, authorized post transition operations on the transition deadline. Stations requesting such approval must also indicate whether such early operation would result in loss of their own analog or digital service.

6 - After February 17, stations that wish to terminate analog service before 11:59:59 pm on June 12, 2009 must comply with the requirements in the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order.

7 - Stations that have previously terminated analog service may request permission to resume analog broadcasting. Stations that have already terminated their analog service and desire to resume analog broadcasting must file a request for STA.

8 - Stations that previously notified the Commission that they intend to terminate their analog service on February 16 or earlier, and have not yet done so, must confirm whether they intend to terminate their analog signal prior to February 17 or if they intend to remain on the air with regular programming on their analog channel beyond February 17. These notifications must be submitted no later than Monday, February 9, 2009.

Well Washington DC at their best once more.


Forget points 1 & 2, #3 is the killer. Says to me that notice is given: Stations, keep your posteriors out of drafts and just chill till until June.

My eyes glaze over trying to make sense out of the rest.

If this kind of stuff had happened back in the dawn of NTSC Howdy Doody never would have made it to the airwaves. My fond memories of Buffalo Bob, Clarabell et. all (at age 4 at the bitter end of the run, hey I'm not that ancient ) never could be.

Good luck foxeng.

Joe