Official JVC RS65/X90 Owners Thread - Page 3

Originally Posted by kal

Just to be clear: You're seeing this on test patterns from digital sources like the AVS709 or Digital Video Essentials test discs right? Not on actual movie (film based content). Kal

Originally Posted by kal

You've got the projector connected via HDMI correct?Kal

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

My blu-ray is a Mcintosh MVP 881 (Based on the Marantz UD9001). I also have an Oppo-BDP-95 that shows the same problems. The HDMI cable is the same one used with the Marantz. I still have the Marantz and shows no problem what so ever.

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

Hi everyone,

I recently installed a brand new RS-65 in my theater replacing a Marantz VP-11S2. First off, the RS-65 is far better than the Marantz in every department except for image noise. Even after 120 hours on the bulb, the RS-65 shows incredible amount of grain/noise in bright images; no problem with dark material.

The unit is calibrated to Rec. 709 D65 with amazing color accuracy. I noticed when calibrating the unit that on low test patters (20% - 30% - 40%) the whites shows distracting artifacts. I really don't know if this is a normal thing on D-ILA projectors since coming from a high end DLP. I've tried every color mode, MPC level, sharpness and noise reduction set to 0, to no avail. The only thing that works is applying DNR in my blu-ray player, but that kills the naturalness of the image.

Any advice on this issue?

Current set-up:

Perfectly light control room

Screen - Stewart Studiotek 130 G3 92" 16x9
18.1 - FL

User 1
Film mode
Gamma - Custom (2.3 - 2.23 calibrated)
Color Management - Custom 1
Contrast - (-6)
Brightness - (-5)
Color - 0
Tint - 0
Sharpness - 0
NR - 0
MPC Level - 2
Lens Aperture - (-12)
Lamp - High mode

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

Thanks for replying.

My contrast numbers are correct. I achieved a perfect grayscale with these settings running from 30 to 100. Colors and gamma are also spot on. The image is incredible detailed and crisp during dark images. The problems are visible during bright scenes only. HDMI is set to enhanced; in normal mode whites where crushed.

Remember that I'm coming from a very dim DLP image; around 10FL with a brand new bulb. Even dough I'm having these issues the JVC throws a beautiful image.

Originally Posted by Manni01

I am not trying to undermine your calibration. I am just suggesting, based on my experience, a few things to try to see if it has a positive or negative effect on the issue.
It is entirely up to you to try them or not.

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

Report:

It appears that in standard HDMI mode all colors are clipping in my setup. In enhance mode everything looks normal. Raising the contrast to +14 crushes not only the whites, but all colors. A +2 setting seams to tone down a lot the noise/grain problems. By Playing the with lamp/iris setup I found out that I could solve the problem but would have to sacrifice a lot light output.

I also noticed that these issues are only present on some discs (All Transformers, I Robot). I watched the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last night and didn't detect any of the problems. Image looked amazing, like razor sharp DLP with better blacks and detail. I also tried some animation (Meet the Robinsons, Rango) and no problems what so ever.

Thanks kindly for all the help and suggestions.

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

Report:

It appears that in standard HDMI mode all colors are clipping in my setup. In enhance mode everything looks normal. Raising the contrast to +14 crushes not only the whites, but all colors. A +2 setting seams to tone down a lot the noise/grain problems. By Playing the with lamp/iris setup I found out that I could solve the problem but would have to sacrifice a lot light output.

I also noticed that these issues are only present on some discs (All Transformers, I Robot). I watched the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last night and didn't detect any of the problems. Image looked amazing, like razor sharp DLP with better blacks and detail. I also tried some animation (Meet the Robinsons, Rango) and no problems what so ever.

Thanks kindly for all the help and suggestions.

Originally Posted by RapalloAV

So if you used enhance in the end what + - did you end up with for black and contrast?

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

-6 for Brightness
+2 Contrast

My avr is a Mcintosh MX150, which doesn't have a video processor. It acts only as a switcher. The Mcintosh Blu Ray has a source direct option but I don't see any difference from the auto mode.

I calibrated the projector again using Calman pro and the Eye One Pro and only had to adjust a few points in the grayscale. Colors maintained their proper settings.

Originally Posted by RapalloAV

So it seems like all your problems are resolved since you changed to enhanced.

Originally Posted by Manni01

He was in enhanced to start with, but with a very weird contrast value (-6). +2 is a bit closer to what is to be expected in enhanced, but still weird.

What's even weirder is the clipping in standard. I've never seen that on a JVC.

Apparently what made the biggest difference was the change to low lamp/different lens ap.

Originally Posted by RapalloAV


Manni was it you that said +14 contast, -7 black with enhanced?

Originally Posted by Manni01

Yes, although it might vary unit to unit, but it's closer the what's most often found.

When using hdmi enhanced, it is advised to set contrast first, as it has a strong effect on brightness.
If you set brightness first, you are likely to raise your absolute black level.

By the way, these values are meant to target 235 for contrast, not super white.
The main benefit is to deal with the slight black crush (present in hdmi standard).

However, depending on the way you set enhanced and on your lens ap settings, you can easily raise black levels and hurt on/off.

To debug, I highly recommend using hdmi standard with values at zero, zero as it's usually a safe fallback.
You are likely to have a slight black crush (level 17 might not show) but otherwise it should give you a good starting point (in a bat cave with a nominal gain screen) unless there is something going on with the avr/source.

Ymmv, yada yada yada

Originally Posted by JonStatt

If the blu-ray player is not limited to HDMI standard, some of the test discs are based on 0-255 and NOT 0-235. So crush would be seen at +14 based on those discs/test screens. It is very important that the test pattern is understood as well as all the components in the chain. I am a bit suspicious that the reason +2 was the final value was because the test material used was 0-255.

JVC projectors really don't vary much at all. You may get a +-1 variance in settings for things like brightness and contrast. More than that, and either the projector is faulty or there are other things happening in the chain.

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

For brightness and contrast I used the Oppo Forge Disc, for grayscale and color the AVS disc. With HDMI set to Standard in user 1, film mode, 0-0 (Brightness & contrast) whites, blacks, and every other color clips. By switching to enhance everything looks normal. If a raise the contrast to +14 everything again clips. I ended up with +2 at 18.5 FL with a 2.22 gamma, excellent grayscale tracking and an almost perfect CMS. Blacks look deep and bright. Remember that this is my first JVC projector coming from DLP, so any more suggestions are welcome.

Thanks again

Originally Posted by gigimonagas

Yes, that disc. Ok so I should use the AVS disc for brightness and constrast also?

Originally Posted by Andy Lammer

I just sold my RS-35 today and debating where to go to next.
The RS55 is the natural progression, but I'm also thinking about the RS65.

My rationale on the RS65 as a very long-term projector are as follows:
a) it is 4K ( well e-shift interlaced anways, and I'm OK with that - I saw RS65/X90 at CES )
b) we may be many years away from "mainstream" 4K source material
c) can native contrast get much better than 120,000:1 and how much more native contrast can my eyes appreciate
d) it is bright enough for a Da-Lite HiPower 136" wide scope screen
e) I still don't give a hoot about 3D, so its 3D issues aren't a big concern
f) I will have Chromapure/DVDO-Duo/Display-3-Pro to address calibration issues

Have any of you spent time with both the RS55 & RS65 ?
Aside from the bundled emitter & 2 glasses, is the extra contrast of the RS65 that much more noticable than the RS55 ?
Would you quantify the RS65 at 10%, 15%, 20% better than the RS55 ?

- Andy

Originally Posted by JonStatt

Yes the AVS disc is fine. It clearly labels the 16 black, and 235 white. So you "should" see clipping start at those 2 points. Don't worry if you have difficulty seeing 17 as this is a known issue with JVCs without some additional tinkering. Set HDMI to enhanced on the JVC but calibrate for 16-235 and you should hopefully now find your levels are identical or within 1 point of Manni's suggestion. It is better to keep black level down rather than raise it to see level 17, so don't feel too bad if you can't see it.

Originally Posted by RapalloAV

Jon is the AVE HD Basics disc just as good as the AVS disc for resolving 17/235?

Originally Posted by Kevin 3000

I have it, got it from the JVC site had to use my serial number before i could download it, GaryB linked to it from the avforum site, sorry lost link you will have to search.

Searched for you here you go.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/16233754-post139.html

Spyder4Elite spec lists Front projection as YES so double check on the Pro version