david vs goliath (Supercube 2000 vs FV12) - Page 2

Uh yea, right... I haven't actually been to pandoras nor have I heard a futuristic shuttle ascending but apparently you have? Sigh... I can see where this is going and quite frankly I don't have the time to waste.

Then what is the point of your initial post if all you are interested in is your subjective opinion? That IS more of an Amazon testimonial, or even a Facebook wall post.

Not at all. Amazon is a great place for people to post subjective opinions where they aren't interested in discussing the science of subwoofers. If you really feel that how it sounds to you is all that matters, that might be a better place to post. But if you post here, you should expect to be challenged to go beyond the subjectivity.

+1 if you enjoy the sound that's great! If you tell people...."I enjoy the sound, I don't really know any real world specs", that's great! But if you bring into the equation....I'm getting x spl at x Hz.....then some real world measurements will be necessary to back your claim. You don't have too...but to be taken seriously you would.

I guess if your focus is, pardon me, chick flicks or movies made more than 5 years ago you might find relatively little deep bass. But I just don't think it's deniable that any recent movie with action scenes is going to do plenty below 30 Hz. If you don't care, that's cool. It makes your system okay for you, but not objectively good. Just lime mine is for me, at this point in time.

You claim that this is the Audio Video Science forum, which its is, but many of you don't deal with science at all and I might add, even logic. Some of you folks determine what is and what isn't a good subwoofer based on feeling and not on hearing.

Audio= hearing
Video= seeing.

Some of you go out and buy that subwoofer that can hit ULF (below 20hz), but who can hear ULF? You say, well it isn't about hearing its about feeling.

Feeling is sense that doesn't deal with Audio Video Science. Sex comes under area on feeling, so if you want to the discuss the tactfile sensation you get from feeling ULF it would better discussed in a forum that deals with tactile stimulation like having sex, getting a massage, or taking a soothing bath etc.

What percentage of movies? If you going spend a money on a sub don't you want enough content to justify your purchase? Or are you going to purchase 4 SVS Ultra 13's for a few mindless, stupid, dumb movies, that go boom boom and skip to your favorite loud bombastic scenes to impress your friends?

That doesn't seem like science to me, that seems illogical and a bad investment.

The FV12 was measured with high levels of distortion at high volumes do to the fact that designers did not use limiter because they sub to produce high output.

Is this the discussion of the FV-12 by Rythmik to a Supercube 2000?

Most people can hear ULF under 20hz, though in combination with tactile response. And ULF tactile "feeling" can be measured.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here, but it isn't based on solid scientific theory or practice. Sounds like you might be better served moving your commentary to the kinds of forums that deal with the topics you list.

Nice semi-veiled slam at anyone who likes movies outside the art house and "chick flick" realms. I think it would be better if you didn't project your requirements on others and their choice of investment in HT.

By your logic, why buy anything related to enhancing the HT and Music experiences? We can all listen through our TV speakers, right?

Two questions:

1. Have you ever actually experienced ULF while watching any movies?

2. If you have, does it sexually stimulate you?

If so, isn't that all the more reason for a good ULF sub or two?

If that's your view, fine. But you oughta know better than to believe your values and preferences MUST be universally accepted and followed. To each his or her own. I like what I'm able to get from IRon Man, which I thought was a decent movie, or dozens of others. I'm not one to rent a movie just for the bass except once in a blue moon to see how my system seems to respond to it.

What's your point? Is it audible? At some point yes. What is a person to do? Turn it down!!! So terribly difficult! Or know going in that it will produce adequate clean vloume for your listening levels in your room. Or you can buy a subwoofer that turns itself down with a limiter. If the 2 are otherwise identical, operated within their limits, they will perform exactly the same. You have to stay out of the limiter range in order for the limited sub to be linear. You have to stay out of the distortion range for the unlimited sub to be clean. No big deal.

You seem to be saying that any sub that can be driven to sigificant distortion is no good. Would you say the same of your mains? No unpowered main speaker that I know of has a limiter. Every speaker, driven past its clean limits, will by definition distort a bit, then more, then more, then it will die from being overpowered. Are they all bad? Or do those of us who use them within their limits get to enjoy their clarity linearity etc within those limits without feeling badly that we could not fill a stadium with them?

Actually I believe it was the F12 not the FV12 that was measured.

Link to test summary; http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...html#post48248

I don't know why people are having sex with their subwoofers.

Cuz we don't have sheep.

It wouldn't have mattered. He's just trying to discredit Rythmik in an attempt to bolster Emotiva's poor performance.

For a moment there I thought I was on the Emotiva thread.

Maybe that's why some people like ported subs--because of the hole

This discussion is about the FV12. Also, isn't the FV12 considered the higher end model between the two?

Show and prove where I said one thing negative about the FV-12. I'm waiting.

You're hopeless.

In my opinion, to some degree the subwoofer forum has run amok. It has gotten away from the rules set forth by the administrator. It has, to a great degree, drifted away from audio science, logic, praticality.

You were talking about the measurements (THD distortion) of the FV12 (it was never measured).
If price is the indicator, then the F12 which is $200 more would be the better unit.

Which is a good reason for you stay in the Emotiva threads.

No. FWIW, Rythmik describes the FV12 as their entry level sub. And FWIW, when I thought I was about to buy a sub a few months ago, they semigently steered me away from it on the grounds that, for my goals, in my room, etc. the rest of the lineup would deliver higher sound quality . . .. So it's good for what it is, but unlike hipness, it cannot be what it ain't.*

*paraphrasing What is Hip, by the Tower of Power (for all you younguns.)

Well, if you are arguing it has drifted away from science because we talk about ULF < 20hz, that seems a personal definition of audio science that would be at odds with the scientific and manufacturing community. Dr. Hsu is published on low frequency effects. Audio companies put money into research and development of subwoofers that produce ULF. Audio engineers are adding them to movie LFE tracks.

Better to understand audio science as about sound waves.