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Stentorian build - Page 8

post #211 of 253
Hey guys, sorry to come in really late on this. New to the forum and I'm going to build the Stentorians. Had a couple questions for Dusty.

1) It appears the you assembled the entire enclosure before cutting the driver holes in the baffle. Is this correct? I didn't see pictures of this activity. What is your method? Do you use a plunge router and circle jig?

2) Also, I didn't see you put anything about polyfill (or similar). How did you do this and how much did you use?

3) Lastly, the 3/8ths holes that were drilled in each section, on the middle one where the crossover goes, it appears that the crossover would cover the hole. Does this create any performance issues?

Thanks alot. If this thread is not being monitored anymore, I'll post in a newer one.
post #212 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

1) It appears the you assembled the entire enclosure before cutting the driver holes in the baffle. Is this correct? I didn't see pictures of this activity. What is your method? Do you use a plunge router and circle jig?

You can cut the drivers holes before or after assembly. Depending on the tools you have, it's probably easier to cut them beforehand. I think Passing Interest cut the drivers holes later because he was on a deadline and started building the cabinet before he had the drivers on hand.

I don't know the method Passing Interest used, but a plunge router with a Jasper circle jig is how I cut my driver holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

3) Lastly, the 3/8ths holes that were drilled in each section, on the middle one where the crossover goes, it appears that the crossover would cover the hole. Does this create any performance issues?

The holes should not be covered.
post #213 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

1) It appears the you assembled the entire enclosure before cutting the driver holes in the baffle. Is this correct? I didn't see pictures of this activity. What is your method? Do you use a plunge router and circle jig?

I used the Dusty ShopFloor name for this one build only, so don't be confused by that.
I guess I didn't take enough pictures. I was a little rushed on this build.
You're right, I cut the driver holes after cabinet assembly, using a plunge router and a Jasper jig, like BeerParty said. Elaborating a little, I cut driver pass-through holes in the cabinet, a little oversized to allow the drivers to breathe, then I cut the driver holes again after installing the final front baffle.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

2) Also, I didn't see you put anything about polyfill (or similar). How did you do this and how much did you use?

I used 3 pounds of loose Polyfill per driver, as Curt recommended in his Cabinet Construction drawing. I just stuffed it in there.


Edit: 4 1/2 months after the project, reflecting back, I thought that I had used that much stuffing.  I'm sure now that I was mistaken.  I apologize for the error and any confusion this may have caused.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

3) Lastly, the 3/8ths holes that were drilled in each section, on the middle one where the crossover goes, it appears that the crossover would cover the hole. Does this create any performance issues?

The standoffs on the crossover board were thick enough to make sure there would be no interference with the aperiodic vent. So, even though you can't see the hole under the board, the air flow is fine.

I hope this helps.
Enjoy your build.


Edited by PassingInterest - 4/11/13 at 9:52am
post #214 of 253
Thanks for the replies guys. That explains alot. About the polyfill, did you use 3 pounds per driver or 3 pounds for the entire speaker? Just looking at the price for polyfill, it seems that with 3 pounds per driver, I could have as much money in this material as I do in the speaker itself.

Thanks.
post #215 of 253

Oops! I meant to say that I used 3 pounds per sub-section.

 

Edit: Wrong again!  I was on a tight timeline and moved pretty fast.  When this question came up 4 1/2 months later, I was mistaken in my response.  Again, I apologize for any confusion I may have caused with the incorrect answer.


Edited by PassingInterest - 4/11/13 at 9:56am
post #216 of 253
Thank you so much. This was a big help.
post #217 of 253
I'm so sorry, just one more question please. You cut out the baffle holes first at 6 inches correct? Was this so you would have some room for error since you were adding an additional 3/4" baffle to the front which you also had to cut driver holes in? Thanks.
post #218 of 253
No, I oversized the holes to allow the woofers to "breathe."
3/4" twice, minus the recess depth and the backside of the woofers pass through about 1 1/4" or so of plywood. This is why people often chamfer the inside of the woofer hole--to allow the woofer to breathe. By oversizing the woofer holes before adding on the final 3/4" baffle, I eliminated the need for a chamfer.
post #219 of 253
How much power needs to be pushed to these to get the best sound?
post #220 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

No, I oversized the holes to allow the woofers to "breathe."
3/4" twice, minus the recess depth and the backside of the woofers pass through about 1 1/4" or so of plywood. This is why people often chamfer the inside of the woofer hole--to allow the woofer to breathe. By oversizing the woofer holes before adding on the final 3/4" baffle, I eliminated the need for a chamfer.

Thanks for the reply. That makes perfect sense. I'll try to incorporate the same technique in my build.
post #221 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide0323 View Post

How much power needs to be pushed to these to get the best sound?

Others can answer that better than I can.
I only listened to a few songs on the night that I finished them and they were delivered the next morning. I haven't seen or heard them since, so I'll leave this question for others. You can ask Curt through his web site. He has spent a lot of time listening to them. More than I have, anyway. Sorry I can't give you a good answer.
post #222 of 253
PI, I hope you don't mind me continuing to post here but I have started my Stentorian build and will have a few questions for you along the way. My simple question now is this. On the first page of the build you stated that you needed two tops and two bottoms cut at the full depth of the speaker (15"). Was this correct or should it have been two tops and two bottoms cut at 13 1/2" to account for the front and rear pieces? Thanks.
post #223 of 253
Mathu126--I'm glad you asked. It should be 13 1/2". After I caught the error, I forgot to go back and correct the original entry.
post #224 of 253
Ok. That helps me out alot. I was also wondering, you didn't go into alot of detail on the driver installation. How deep did you recess your drivers? Also, what method did you use to secure them? Did you use self driving screws or hurricane nuts? I am using MDF so I didn't know how the self driving screws would perform in this application.

By the way, on the MTM braces, did I see that you used two different size holes? Was it the same on the regular sized braces? I have a 4 inch hole saw that I thought would be ok on the larger ones and maybe a 3 inch and 4 inch together on the smaller ones.

I'm thinking of doing the same thing you did with cutting holes in the front after assembly and then the same with the baffle on top. Did you find this easy to did you have any troubles. I guess my fear (obviously) is getting the think glued together and then messing something up on the baffle.

Thanks.
post #225 of 253
mathu126--I'm glad you're asking such good questions. It tells me that I should include more detail in my build threads. I'm always afraid of boring everyone with too much detail. Now I'm sure I haven't included enough to be very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

How deep did you recess your drivers?

I don't remember the number off-hand, but I used digital calipers to determine the thickness of the driver face-frame, including the gasket and used a drill-bit of that same diameter to set the depth on my plunge router. Here is what I mean.




An alternative is to use the actual driver face-frame itself to set the plunge depth without any measuring at all. Here is what I mean. Both these photos were from another build--a small 2-way project.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

Also, what method did you use to secure them? Did you use self driving screws or hurricane nuts? I am using MDF so I didn't know how the self driving screws would perform in this application.

I did not use self-driving screws. I pre-drilled the holes and used regular screws. I don't think you will have any problem doing the same thing in MDF.

Here's a tip--after you pre-drill the driver mounting holes, drive the screws into the holes, then back them out--without the driver present--to cut the threads into the holes and to make sure the screws will go in easy when you install the drivers. This way, you pretty much eliminate the risk of accidentally slipping and putting a hole in your driver cone, because you are not using much pressure on your drill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

By the way, on the MTM braces, did I see that you used two different size holes? Was it the same on the regular sized braces? I have a 4 inch hole saw that I thought would be ok on the larger ones and maybe a 3 inch and 4 inch together on the smaller ones.

I did use two different size hole saws on the MTM braces (only), but it turns out that I didn't need to. I used the larger size to open things up all the way out to the edge of the brace, since it is centered over the tweeter. Then it looked like I didn't have much room to fit the larger hole size toward the rear of the brace. I later realized that I accidentally cut the brace too short, so I could have used the larger hole saw on both holes in that brace, if I had cut the brace to the correct size in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

I'm thinking of doing the same thing you did with cutting holes in the front after assembly and then the same with the baffle on top. Did you find this easy to did you have any troubles. I guess my fear (obviously) is getting the think glued together and then messing something up on the baffle.

Once you get your router set up for cutting the holes for the two different drivers (tweeter and woofers), do a test cut for each on some scrap to make sure you will have a good fit for each and use a sharpie marker to mark the pair of pinning holes for each driver, meaning outer recess diameter, and the through hole. Once you've got your jig marked, you should be okay.

If you are still concerned about making a mistake on your glued-up cabinet, you needn't worry too much about the first set of holes in the cabinet face, because it will be covered anyway when you glue on the final outer baffle.

So, you can take all the worry out of it by routing the final outer baffle before you glue it on the cabinet. If you cut the final piece 1/8" oversize in each dimension, you will have to trim or sand the remaining 1/16" from each edge (1/16" overhang on top plus 1/16" overhang on the bottom equals 1/8" overall) and it is really easy to perfectly center 1/16" overhang during glue-up. But, even if you are off by a few microns--nobody will know once they're finished, not even you. So, nice and easy and all the worry is gone.

I hope this helps, my friend.
post #226 of 253
Oh my gosh. I'm learning from Yoda here. Those are awesome pictures and tips. I would have never thought to put the actual driver flange in the router height adjustment to get the thickness. Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

mathu126--I'm glad you're asking such good questions. It tells me that I should include more detail in my build threads. I'm always afraid of boring everyone with too much detail. Now I'm sure I haven't included enough to be very helpful.

Well, I'm sure you have plenty in your threads for a normal speaker builder but I am a complete novice. I've stepped off into this and I love it. So far, so good though.


Quote:


I did not use self-driving screws. I pre-drilled the holes and used regular screws. I don't think you will have any problem doing the same thing in MDF.

Here's a tip--after you pre-drill the driver mounting holes, drive the screws into the holes, then back them out--without the driver present--to cut the threads into the holes and to make sure the screws will go in easy when you install the drivers. This way, you pretty much eliminate the risk of accidentally slipping and putting a hole in your driver cone, because you are not using much pressure on your drill.

Sorry to be anal about this one but it's something that I'm really struggling to understand (even though so simple). Do you have any pictures from a build of the actual process of installing drivers with screws and nuts? Do you have to countersink the hurricane nuts or do you just reach in through the driver holes and hold the nuts while turning the screws? Sorry.


Quote:


I did use two different size hole saws on the MTM braces (only), but it turns out that I didn't need to. I used the larger size to open things up all the way out to the edge of the brace, since it is centered over the tweeter. Then it looked like I didn't have much room to fit the larger hole size toward the rear of the brace. I later realized that I accidentally cut the brace too short, so I could have used the larger hole saw on both holes in that brace, if I had cut the brace to the correct size in the first place.

Ok. I used the 4 inch on the main braces and the MTM braces.





Quote:


Once you get your router set up for cutting the holes for the two different drivers (tweeter and woofers), do a test cut for each on some scrap to make sure you will have a good fit for each and use a sharpie marker to mark the pair of pinning holes for each driver, meaning outer recess diameter, and the through hole. Once you've got your jig marked, you should be okay.

Yea, I tried this today. The flange width came out good but my hole ended up a shade small based on the dimensions Curt called out so the driver was too tight. I'll just add about 1/16th when I test again just before I start cutting the baffles.


Quote:


So, you can take all the worry out of it by routing the final outer baffle before you glue it on the cabinet. If you cut the final piece 1/8" oversize in each dimension, you will have to trim or sand the remaining 1/16" from each edge (1/16" overhang on top plus 1/16" overhang on the bottom equals 1/8" overall) and it is really easy to perfectly center 1/16" overhang during glue-up. But, even if you are off by a few microns--nobody will know once they're finished, not even you. So, nice and easy and all the worry is gone.

I hope this helps, my friend.

Yes, this has been a huge help. Thank you so much. I am travelling this week so I won't get to work on it again til next weekend. Looking forward to it.
post #227 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu126 View Post

Sorry to be anal about this one but it's something that I'm really struggling to understand (even though so simple). Do you have any pictures from a build of the actual process of installing drivers with screws and nuts? Do you have to countersink the hurricane nuts or do you just reach in through the driver holes and hold the nuts while turning the screws?

For your first build, I would avoid the hurricane/T-nuts and just use wood screws. I used T-nuts in my first build and they were a pain in the butt! You can read about the problems I had here. Pre-drill the holes for the wood screws per PI's direction, then screw the wood screws in once most of the way without the drivers present. If you buy a box of wood screws, it will tell you what size drill bit to use when pre-drilling the holes.
post #228 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post








I wish I would have seen this a few weeks ago. So simple...
post #229 of 253
PI, I can get the total height of the crossover recess from the plan I have but there's not a width callout. Can you tell me the dimensions you used? Looks like it'a about 3 inches wide but I can't tell exactly. Also, while I'm asking questions do you have an exact location you put the whole for the binding post cup or did you just estimate on each boyx? Thanks alot.
post #230 of 253
Mathu126--I don't recall the dimensions on the crossover cutout and I don't have them any longer to check. I'd say assemble your crossover first or at least be sure you know the size of your crossover board in advance and cut an opening to fit.

On the connector cup, just make sure you have good clearance inside the box, before you locate the hole. You really have a lot of flexibility with that.

By the way, yesterday, I talked with the two singer/guitar players that use the Stentorians in small coffee shop type venues and they are very happy with them. They also used them in an outdoor park venue and after their hour, two different DJ's used them to play techno music through them for an hour each with no problems or complaints. In fact, they keep getting asked about the Stentorians, where they got them, what are they called, where can others get them. People like them. Just thought I'd mention it, in case anyone has any reservations about building a pair.
post #231 of 253
Hey, thanks again PI for all the input. I am coming along very slowly with my build but it's going pretty well. I have one glued together now and have just cut out my holes on the front panel. I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

1) On your front panels, I know you cut out 6" holes for the woofers but what size did you cut out for the tweeter hole? When I cut my 6" holes, I had about 3/8" in between each hole. So, wanting to leave 3/8" between the tweeter and each woofer hole, I could only cut a 2 5/8' hole. Does this correlate with what you saw?

2) Do you use a caulk or a sealer on all joints in the box?

3) Even with the bigger 6" holes in the front panel, did you still chamfer or bevel the back of the holes once you installed the baffle to give the drivers room to breathe?

4) I forgot to drill through holes in my braces without holes for speaker wires to pass through. Any tips on how to get the holes in there now? What size did you use?

Think that's it for now. Thanks for the good advice.
post #232 of 253
mathu126

1) The tweeters are sealed at the back, so the feed-through hole size is less critical than the woofers. I think 2 5/8" should work, but you can be sure by doing a test route in some scrap. Do the recess and through hole in the same thickness material as your final outer baffle and see what kind of clearance you need at the backside.

2) You can run a bead of Tite Bond II wood glue along all seams inside the box, to insure a good air-tight seal.

3) I did not chamfer the woofer holes. After I routed the recess and through holes for the woofers in some 3/4" plywood, I saw that there wasn't a need for a chamfer, as long as I oversized the holes in the inner baffle piece. That makes it nice and easy.

4) I think I drilled my holes after-the-fact, as well. Hopefully you have access to a drill that's small enough to fit inside your woofer cutouts. As for drill bit diameter, use one large enough to accommodate your speaker wire size.
post #233 of 253
So I'm close to completing the first of three Stentorians. I have the baffle on and all holes drilled inside for routing the wires. PI, did you use a foam tape under the drivers? Also, what type of speaker wire do you use the most? There are so many types, it's hard to decide on a good one. I used a standard 14 gauge speaker wire for all my runs in the theater room but didn't know if there was a preferred type inside. Lastly, I don't know if I mentioned it or not but I'm putting a 7.1 system in my theater and my plan is to build 4 of the Sten II's for the rear and surround speakers. In your opinion, would it be better to build these or just go with a good speaker like the Infinity Primus P153? From my calculations, it would cost me about the same amount either way.

Thanks.
post #234 of 253
Mathu126--I did not use any foam tape under the drivers, but it wouldn't hurt to use it.
I just use affordable 14 gauge speaker wire inside the cabinets.
I haven't heard the Sten IIs or the P153s, so I really couldn't say either way as far as sound quality comparisons go.
But, I would think that by going with the Sten IIs, you would have better tonal matching around the room.
post #235 of 253
PI, I'm looking to use the same type of paint (the garage floor paint) but am having a difficult time finding it. Can you tell me where you got it? Was is a base paint that you had tinted black? I've Googled it but it's not coming up. Was it expensive? I have debated even painting them at all since they will be behind my projector screen but I think I will.

Thanks,
post #236 of 253
mathu126--The Quikrete brand water-based 1 Part Epoxy Garage Floor Finish appears to have been discontinued. I'm sure Sherwin-Williams stocks something similar. SW may even be the company who makes the Quikrete paint. You should be fine with a good latex paint.
post #237 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

mathu126--The Quikrete brand water-based 1 Part Epoxy Garage Floor Finish appears to have been discontinued. I'm sure Sherwin-Williams stocks something similar. SW may even be the company who makes the Quikrete paint. You should be fine with a good latex paint.

I guess I wanted to go with this paint because you talked about not needing a primer with it. I liked the look as well. My experience with regular latex based paint (on furniture and such) is that it is usually a bit soft and easy to rub off. I am ok with applying any type of finish but I want to make sure it looks good and is tough.

Thanks.
post #238 of 253
Hi PI. I am getting into my crossover build and am realizing what a newbie I am. I have some questions if you don’t mind. These may be silly but I truly don’t know the answers.

1)This one is not so hard- What size and type of board did you use for the crossover board? It looks like just some 3/16 or ¼ pine board or something.

2) Looks like you used a lacquer (gloss) and then a multipurpose black gloss. Is this correct? How many coats of each?

3) The top two and the bottom two woofers go together on a “woofer net” per Curt’s design. Now here is where I am totally new. What I am thinking here is: Positive from woofers 1 and 5 go to one of the 1.5 inductor leads. Does negative of woofer 1 jumper to positive of woofer 2? And does negative of woofer 5 jumper to positive of woofer 6? Then negative of woofers 2 and 6 go to ground?

4) On the other woofer net (that’s with the tweeter), the top woofer positive goes to the other 1.5 inductor lead. The negative jumpers to the second woofer positive and the negative of the second woofer goes to ground. Right?

5) The tweeter positive goes to the .1 tweeter inductor and the negative to ground?

6) Do the inductors/ caps/ resistors have positive and negative?

7) Did you solder straight to the terminal cups or use terminals?

8) How did you attach the finished crossover to the speaker? Hot glue/ screws/etc..?

Wow. That's alot. Sorry for all the questions. Think of it this way, you are teaching someone the art of crossover building. Anyway, thanks so much for all the help and advice you have provided.

Matt
post #239 of 253
Matt,

1) I use pegboard. The holes make it easy to zip tie the components down.

3,4,5) The wiring is all color coded for you on my site. See the pics below:

6)Genrally they are not. There are some boutique caps that have an input and an output, but most poly caps are not polarity sensitive. Electrolytic caps on the other hand, are polarity sensitive, but they should not be used for crossover work unless they are labeled NPE. (non-polarized electrolytic)

7) Your choice here. Either method will produce fine results. A good solder joint is forever. Terminals can become intermittent or even loosen and fall off with time or vibration.

8) Also your choice. I usually screw them down over a small piece of foam to keep things from rattling around. Make sure the resistors are not covered up and can get airflow over them.

C
423
426
post #240 of 253
Quote:
3,4,5) The wiring is all color coded for you on my site. See the pics below:

Thanks alot Curt. Your advice has been huge for me during this build as well. The reason I asked questions 3,4 and 5 was that, even after reviewing your schematic, I didn't really understand the wiring between woofers. Do you just jumper from the negative of one to the positive of the other? If I can understand this, I think I'm fine.

Thanks,

423
426[/quote]
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