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Altec VOTT Reborn!! - Page 3

post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Wow, that is some impressive stuff. I'd like to see the Iwata-300/950Pb/Truextent from about 400-1500hz crossed to the TPL-150H. It would be a very expensive speaker, but I bet it would be a pretty amazing performer. It would be pretty constant directivity from ~1500 and up with controlled directivity down to ~600hz.

That is goal/point. Right now it is just a paper idea, but we shall see. Below this I have AE TD15Xs with dual PRs in a 5cuft boxes. The sensitivity of those isn't as high, so biamping will likely ensue. However, they have their first surround resonance ~500+hz, so a good place to cross.
post #62 of 95
That is a setup I've considered although I going in a rather different route soon. I would probably try to play the Iwata section as high as possible until it narrows too much for a good directivity match to the TPL-150. Based on the Iwata measurements I've seen I'm guessing 1500hz but you should definitely drag them outside and measure off-axis.

Bi-amping with a stout SS amp on the TD15X's would be ideal. You should be fine with a 3-5W SET amp on the top.

This is a setup I would love to hear.

Edit: It would be very cool to set it up with a switch so it could go from a 3-way with TPL high and a 2-way with just the iwata covering the top end. it would be a little complicated to do with matched levels.
post #63 of 95
Thread Starter 
I am running my IWATA 300's crossed 18dB per octave at 650Hz. I have been running Truextent beryllium diaphragms in JBL 2446 bodies for a few months now. I am really happy with that combination. Mine is a 2 way setup with optimization using Dirac Live. And I'm not looking back!
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #64 of 95
I don't know if I am using something above them or not. Maybe just a B&C DE35 for the top end. All depends. However, I am not going to use DSP as this is a big tube/vinyl system and it just seems wrong, irrational or not.
post #65 of 95
AJ,
Some could argue that your SE tube amp operates as an eq, but one you cannot control.

However, something like Dirac Live actually serves a purpose that your tube "eq" would be highly unlikely to address, the distorting effects of the room. In essence, a product such as Dirac Live could give you better access to the sound you crave. Just something to consider
post #66 of 95
I build some of my own tube amps. I am pretty careful about distortion spectrum over the intended operating range. The thing I like about simple tube amps is the distortion spectrum tends to be low order and very low as low levels (even lower then SS often) which is where you listen 99% of the time. There is a purity of sound that is hard to deny, but it isn't always more realistic, sometimes it is though.

At the end of the day, its the recording that gets you though.
post #67 of 95
I'm far from an expert in the tube amp or even SS amp arena, but I've seen SET designs that measure quite accurately. I would still want a quality SS amp on bass myself, but I wouldn't assume that SET means inaccurate.

I do think the idea of signal purity is silly, but I think AudioJosh has acknowledged that his motivation is irrational. I can understand wanting to keep things simple though. There is something elegant about all analog and tube even if it does not perform as well.

AJ- I'm not sure what you would use the DE35's for. I thought you were suggesting you would use the TPL-150H as the HF driver above the IWATA as a mid.
post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

AJ- I'm not sure what you would use the DE35's for. I thought you were suggesting you would use the TPL-150H as the HF driver above the IWATA as a mid.

I just want to try all things. I will definitely try the TPL first. Lower sensitivity though, so need to step down the Iwata a bit.
post #69 of 95
Don't get me wrong, I like tubes. In stereo mode I like the body (warmth) that some tube designs impart. I was just remarking on his concern for purity, especially since SE tube amps can often diverge from purity because of their high output impedance (thus my reference to "eq"). That being said, I do think there is something truly alluring about the system AJ is trying to put together...if I had another room to fit the IWATAs, I might have considered a similar rig wink.gif However, it would be nice to bring a FP every now and then to use them to watch the movie Brazil cool.gif
post #70 of 95
My initial experiments will KISS. I'll use the Iwata all the way up like Carl does. I imagine the Truextent diaphragm can hold its own for a bit. I am just pretty picky about beaming sound. Its not my cup of tea and therefore I don't like Lowthers and the like. Nor do I like Tractrix setups that are allowed to run way up.

I love a good simple tube amp that isn't allowed to distort but operating in its natural limits. There is something right about that sound that isn't like many PP tube amps, SS amps, feedback employing amps in the same volume range. Granted the others can do bass....and I agree with the above statements about letting a competent amp do the bass. I have some Hypex UCD amps, plus a handful of other SS amps for that kind of thing. The split to where to mix to tubes is controversial online, but IMO comes down to what music you like and are biased towards.
post #71 of 95
Took a simple raw picture of my Iwata on my bass bin. iwata 004.JPG 146k .JPG file
post #72 of 95
post #73 of 95
Josh can you just upload the image so we don't have to DL it.
post #74 of 95
yeah I am trying to figure that out. Call me slow.



Edited by AudioJosh - 12/16/12 at 5:31pm
post #75 of 95
hopefully that worked
post #76 of 95
That looks awesome. It would look a little funny with the TPL on top. Maybe build a small box to put it in between.

Have you listened to them yet?
post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

That looks awesome. It would look a little funny with the TPL on top. Maybe build a small box to put it in between.
Have you listened to them yet?

Nope.... Need to figure out how to biamp them and cut the top end enough. I've been too slow in trying anything yet.
post #78 of 95
"I am from Canada, they say I am slow eh"
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

"I am from Canada, they say I am slow eh"

But I am not from Canada....I just live here. And I don't say, eh!
post #80 of 95
Hi Carl,

Was just curious. I think I saw a photo on one of the sites where you were using a new bass portion of this. Did you sell off the old VOTT cabinets?
post #81 of 95
thnx for the bump ... just re-read this thread, wonderful stuff for sure.

I don't know about Carl's, but how's your system Josh?
post #82 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

Hi Carl,

Was just curious. I think I saw a photo on one of the sites where you were using a new bass portion of this. Did you sell off the old VOTT cabinets?

Josh,

I haven't sold them but I have pulled them out of service. I am currently running a pair of JBL 4648 cabinets (each 2 x 2226h) that I got a deal on. I cannot say that the JBL cabinets are an improvement. The JBL cabinets are tonally different and are what I often worked with when I was doing commercial cinemas and mixdown studios. In that regard the JBLs are familiar but I cannot say better than the ALTEC/ GPA bottoms that are described in this thread. When EQ'd they sound quite similar. I have yet to pick a real preference. Today my mood is to wax poetic about the Altec/ GPAs.

Of late I am toying with the idea of mounting SEOS 24 waveguides on top of the Altec cabs (assuming that you are familiar with the SEOS waveguides). I already have the waveguides and have been twitchy to buy a pair of Radian CDs for them that are loaded with Be diaphragms. We shall see!

If I do I will be sure to document them here.

________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #83 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Josh,

I haven't sold them but I have pulled them out of service. I am currently running a pair of JBL 4648 cabinets (each 2 x 2226h) that I got a deal on. I cannot say that the JBL cabinets are an improvement. The JBL cabinets are tonally different and are what I often worked with when I was doing commercial cinemas and mixdown studios. In that regard the JBLs are familiar but I cannot say better than the ALTEC/ GPA bottoms that are described in this thread. When EQ'd they sound quite similar. I have yet to pick a real preference. Today my mood is to wax poetic about the Altec/ GPAs.

Of late I am toying with the idea of mounting SEOS 24 waveguides on top of the Altec cabs (assuming that you are familiar with the SEOS waveguides). I already have the waveguides and have been twitchy to buy a pair of Radian CDs for them that are loaded with Be diaphragms. We shall see!

If I do I will be sure to document them here.

________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Carl, what is the point of switching out the iWata 300's for the Seos-24's? What are you hoping to accomplish by this? How are you liking the duel 2226's per side with the Be Radian 950's?
post #84 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Carl, what is the point of switching out the iWata 300's for the Seos-24's? What are you hoping to accomplish by this? How are you liking the duel 2226's per side with the Be Radian 950's?

My IWATAs are running JBL 2446 CDs with Be diaphragms and I like them a lot. If I move forward on the proposed project the SEOS 24s would go on top of, or inside my Altec cabs where an Altec 511 horn would usually go. I've got another pair of empty VOTT cabinets in the garage that are waiting to be restored. Maybe I'll do a modern version of the old Altec VOTT Magnificent. I've got some cherry veneer that my wife would like.



Altho the SEOS 24s might reach a little higher because of its' smaller throat than that of the IWATAs, I would not expect the SEOS 24s to improve upon the IWATAs. If they do I would not expect it to be by much.

I simply enjoy building things. Building loudspeakers (especially when I am reviving aging classic designs) is what I do to relax and entertain myself. My wife doesn't mind. She points out that my hobby is cheaper than buying and driving exotic sports cars like what a friend of mine does. biggrin.gif
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #85 of 95
That is such a cool build, Carl! It sure is refreshing to have some new projects going right now!
post #86 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post


Not shown in the PICs are the two 7 foot tall linear arrays that I am using for surround fills

Pics?

JSS
post #87 of 95
I have been quite busy with moving extra kit out of my place and haven't spent much time finishing my projects. I know it is easy, so I'll have a go very soon. Part of my problem had been space to set it up since I moved and had too much crap.
post #88 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Pics? JSS

Here you go. They are two columns of 24 drivers (ie: 12 ribbon tweeters and 12 cones per side).



____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #89 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Some of you on this forum think of me as a 'bit of a nutter' when I post my ideas on loudspeaker designs, so let me offer up proof that you just might be right! A few months ago I bought a pair of Autotech IWATA 300s from Erich in his original Group Buy.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/iwata300.html.


I love those horns! The sound is BIG, dynamic and not at all 'horn like'. I originally matched my IWATAs and JBL 2446 CDs to unused JBL Cinema cabinets, each loaded with a single 2035 woofer. It worked well. However I knew that the mid bass could be improved upon. It just didn't have the 'live punch' that I was looking for.


Recently I stumbled upon some empty and aging Altec A7 828 cabinets on EBay. They were plywood and well built but clearly needed a little TLC. They were just a couple hours away so I bought'em! And then spent the next few weekends in my garage tweaking, filling and painting them. Add in a new shiny pair of 416-8C drivers from Great Plains Audio and I was ready for business. Last week I rolled them into the house.


My wife did wince when she saw how large they were as she helped me nudge them thru the door but was kind enough to say little.














And they are ASTOUNDING! I have them configured using active crossover at approx 700Hz. I used a Datasat AP20\\ RS20i Audio Processor for the active xover to transition from the 828 box to the IWATA horns. I set Bass Management to extend the cabs at 48kHz using a pair of JBL Cinema 4645 subwoofers. I then applied Dirac Live room optmization. When I was done with the 828\\ IWATA\\ 4645 combination I had a reference level system that worked well from 26Hz to 18kHz with huge dynamics and headroom to spare. Now that my wife has heard them, even she likes them! I'm keeping them.

_____________

Best Regards,

Carl Huff

Gorgeous speakers! BIG and BOLD just the way I like them. I bet they sound amazing!
post #90 of 95
you guys might be some of the few who will actually appreciate something like this:
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