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Amp upgrade from EP4000 for 2 JTR Caps - Page 2

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

When did you get rca to xlr from monoprice? if you ordered in the past 2 months it was likely wired wrong so the signal was seriously attenuated... you might not need a cleanbox pro at all. monoprice seriously screwed up with this recent sh!#

No kidding!

I love me some Monoprice, but this same thing happened to me... just sent them a note tonight expressing my feelings. They sent me a set that didn't work, then sent another set that they said they tested... didn't work. I thought I had purchased a broken amp. Had a musician check it out, worked perfectly. He said 2 of the pins were tied together incorrectly. Definitely try some other cables before giving up.
post #32 of 49
for mo' money...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...79&postcount=8
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

And you're very welcome. Mine is going to arrive tomorrow, but it will be some time before I get to play with it as its supposed to be my birthday present. what do you plan on running with it? Got to love an amp with DUAL 20 amp breakers in it, lol!

I'm going to be hooking up a couple of infinite baffle subwoofers using two FiCar 18" IB3 drivers each. (so, four drivers total). I'll be giving this thing an easy 8ohm x 2ch load, I'm sure the combo will provide me with some nice, clean low notes. Right now I have two $100 Sony 12" subs... I'm expecting an improvement.
I was considering some JTR goodness, but IB has always fascinated me, and I have the chance to try it....

Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

When did you get rca to xlr from monoprice? if you ordered in the past 2 months it was likely wired wrong so the signal was seriously attenuated... you might not need a cleanbox pro at all. monoprice seriously screwed up with this recent sh!#

Whoa, good to know! Have they resolved the issue? I've always had good luck with Monoprice.
I was gonna comment that there shouldn't be anything inherently different, level-wise between XLR and 1/4" (TRS) inputs. My Denon 4311ci's RCA pre-amp outputs have plenty of juice for my EP4000's TRS inputs... I would assume all pro-amps have the same input requirements?
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

for mo' money...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...79&postcount=8

You're not joking.
That's like twice the amount of money compared to the amps we are talking about.
But it's nice to know there are fanless options out there.

As for the cables, I might go for something like Mogami that the pros use, I doubt they would have screwed up wiring:
http://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Gold-XL.../dp/B001LNN2GE

I would think a screwed up cable would be very easy to test with a multimeter, Crown shows exactly how it should be wired in the manual.
post #35 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

When did you get rca to xlr from monoprice? if you ordered in the past 2 months it was likely wired wrong so the signal was seriously attenuated... you might not need a cleanbox pro at all. monoprice seriously screwed up with this recent sh!#

Damnit!! I'm glad I posted here as I thought it was odd I got NO sound with the Xlr but the TRS inputs were completely fine. Thanks so much for the tip, I ordered in October so this very well could be the problem. I've always had great luck with monoprice in the past too. I guess at this low of a price point you have to be willing to deal with some issues.

I will call monoprice and hope they can hook me up with some new cables. And yes, has it been resolved?
post #36 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

I'm going to be hooking up a couple of infinite baffle subwoofers using two FiCar 18" IB3 drivers each. (so, four drivers total). I'll be giving this thing an easy 8ohm x 2ch load, I'm sure the combo will provide me with some nice, clean low notes. Right now I have two $100 Sony 12" subs... I'm expecting an improvement.
I was considering some JTR goodness, but IB has always fascinated me, and I have the chance to try it.

That sounds like a neat project, can't wait to read your results! As for the cables I'd give ebay/monoprice another shot though before I spend 50 plus on another set. For that price you could almost buy the Cleanbox pro and then have adjustable gain going into the amp.

Edit - some good looking alternatives I found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en (6 foot single, 5.99 shipped)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-XLR-...item4aa668a92b (9.99, single, 3 ft - looks similar to monoprice)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-XLR-...item4aa668afa9 (same as above but in 10 feet, 13.95/each)

Also - a nice slightly used Samson S-convert:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samson-S-Con...item3cc0045f91
post #37 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jholzbauer View Post

No kidding!

I love me some Monoprice, but this same thing happened to me... just sent them a note tonight expressing my feelings. They sent me a set that didn't work, then sent another set that they said they tested... didn't work. I thought I had purchased a broken amp. Had a musician check it out, worked perfectly. He said 2 of the pins were tied together incorrectly. Definitely try some other cables before giving up.

Hmm, how long ago was this? I'll check mine with a meter tonight, I'm sure it's the same issue.
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Hmm, how long ago was this? I'll check mine with a meter tonight, I'm sure it's the same issue.

Both sets were bought in the September/October time frame.

By the way, I'm interested in seeing your results once you get a chance to check the new amp. I'm on the flip side, I just purchased 2 dual opposed MFW-15 subs and am having an EP2500 delivered tomorrow to power them. I think that's a good match for them, but it's always interesting to hear user reviews moving from one amp to another.
post #39 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jholzbauer View Post

Both sets were bought in the September/October time frame.

By the way, I'm interested in seeing your results once you get a chance to check the new amp. I'm on the flip side, I just purchased 2 dual opposed MFW-15 subs and am having an EP2500 delivered tomorrow to power them. I think that's a good match for them, but it's always interesting to hear user reviews moving from one amp to another.

I'll check mine tonight. FYI for those that wish to check - Here is the common wiring scheme for a 3pin connector according to wikipedia:


Pin Function
1 Chassis ground (cable shield)
2 Positive polarity terminal for balanced audio circuits (aka "hot")
3 Negative polarity terminal for balanced circuits (aka "cold")[5]

...And here is how it should be connected to an RCA plug:


I have a feeling that positive polarity is connected to more than one of the XLR pins.

As for your setup - Funny enough one of the members on here local to me has the exact same setup as you - (EP4000 with twin dual opposed MFWs). I listed to it about a month back and though it sounded great. Lots of clean low bass and it was flat to a very low frequency in his room after some EQ. I'm sure you will enjoy!
post #40 of 49
Thread Starter 
Confirmed the issue with my monoprice cables. Both pins 2 and 3 (using diagram above) were tied to the tip (+) portion of the RCA cable. Son of a....
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Confirmed the issue with my monoprice cables. Both pins 2 and 3 (using diagram above) were tied to the tip (+) portion of the RCA cable. Son of a....

They're sending me a new pair and told me to just keep the old pair. I'm assuming mine are set up just like yours. Are you going to attempt to fix them on your own? If so, what needs to be done?
post #42 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jholzbauer View Post

They're sending me a new pair and told me to just keep the old pair. I'm assuming mine are set up just like yours. Are you going to attempt to fix them on your own? If so, what needs to be done?

I checked yesterday and they showed the 6ft version on backorder, so I didn't even bother asking them to send a new pair. I'm going to fix them myself and the fix is really easy. Luckily the sleeve behind the XLR connector is removable - take out the screws and the connector pops out, exposing the connections. If you look at the picture above they basically have a "jumper" wire that is incorrectly jumping 2 and 3, instead of 1 and 3. I'm just going to remove that wire and move it over to the correct side.
post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

James,

I hear you. In my situation my caps will be in a fairly large room around 9k cubic feet so I'll need a few extra watts to get the same effect as I would in a room half it's size. at this price I don't mind experimenting.

Also - if I were able to get my hands on new xs900s for the price you did, I would have bought 2 for sure. That indeed was a killer buy!

I'd be interested to see some frequency sweeps comparing the EP4000 vs. the XLS 5000. I read some (non-verified) chatter about Crown amps rolling off down low, but I suspect it's too low to notice.

I'd do it, but even though my XLS 5000 will be here tomorrow, it's going to take 2-4 months to get the IB drivers and build the manifolds for them. At that time, I'll be able to test the EP4000 vs. the Crown down to single digits.
post #44 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

I'd be interested to see some frequency sweeps comparing the EP4000 vs. the XLS 5000. I read some (non-verified) chatter about Crown amps rolling off down low, but I suspect it's too low to notice.

I'd do it, but even though my XLS 5000 will be here tomorrow, it's going to take 2-4 months to get the IB drivers and build the manifolds for them. At that time, I'll be able to test the EP4000 vs. the Crown down to single digits.

Mine is here now but it's my birthday gift and wrapped until jan 19th, heh. I could do some few sweeps with mine at that time. In the meantime, are you able to power yours up to see how the fan sounds?
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Mine is here now but it's my birthday gift and wrapped until jan 19th, heh. I could do some few sweeps with mine at that time. In the meantime, are you able to power yours up to see how the fan sounds?

Just got the beast unboxed and plugged in. The fan makes NO noise. It just gently pulses on and off, silently. I'm not sure if this is because it has no load on it (I won't get any XLR to RCA cables until next week to give it a signal) or it's broken. In any case, when it IS spinning, it makes no noise unless you put your ear right next to it. The EP4000 I have is a tornado in comparison.

Anyway, it looks and feels like a solid device. The power switch has a positive click and it engages a relay inside, then the lights go through a power on cycle, and they all turn off except for a blue power LED.

It does come with a very nice beefy 20A power cable, with the 20A blade plug on one end, so I had make up a 20A blade outlet to test it. When I get it permanently installed, I'll have a dedicated circuit for it, with an outlet turned on and off by a 120v relay with a 12v coil triggered by my Denon 4311ci.

That will be awhile from now, but I will test this with my main speakers. They are currently powered by my EP4000. Hopefully, the Crown will have the same low noise floor and transparency of the Behringer. I'll report back next week when I have tried this and cranked some tunes. Then I can give an update on the fan noise, also.

Oh, the box had a secondary shipping label that said "Shipped to UniqueSquared" from the Crown address... looks legit.

Here is a pic of the insides... if you like huge toroidal transformers, this is the amp for you!
post #46 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

I'd be interested to see some frequency sweeps comparing the EP4000 vs. the XLS 5000. I read some (non-verified) chatter about Crown amps rolling off down low, but I suspect it's too low to notice.

I'd do it, but even though my XLS 5000 will be here tomorrow, it's going to take 2-4 months to get the IB drivers and build the manifolds for them. At that time, I'll be able to test the EP4000 vs. the Crown down to single digits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Just got the beast unboxed and plugged in. The fan makes NO noise. It just gently pulses on and off, silently. I'm not sure if this is because it has no load on it (I won't get any XLR to RCA cables until next week to give it a signal) or it's broken. In any case, when it IS spinning, it makes no noise unless you put your ear right next to it. The EP4000 I have is a tornado in comparison.

Anyway, it looks and feels like a solid device. The power switch has a positive click and it engages a relay inside, then the lights go through a power on cycle, and they all turn off except for a blue power LED.

It does come with a very nice beefy 20A power cable, with the 20A blade plug on one end, so I had make up a 20A blade outlet to test it. When I get it permanently installed, I'll have a dedicated circuit for it, with an outlet turned on and off by a 120v relay with a 12v coil triggered by my Denon 4311ci.

That will be awhile from now, but I will test this with my main speakers. They are currently powered by my EP4000. Hopefully, the Crown will have the same low noise floor and transparency of the Behringer. I'll report back next week when I have tried this and cranked some tunes. Then I can give an update on the fan noise, also.

Oh, the box had a secondary shipping label that said "Shipped to UniqueSquared" from the Crown address... looks legit.

Here is a pic of the insides... if you like huge toroidal transformers, this is the amp for you!

Thanks a ton for testing it out and for the pics! Can't wait to hear your first impressions with the mains. also nice to know there may be some hope with the fan noise
post #47 of 49
Ok, I got the Hosa XLR to RCA adapters. $10 well spent. Now I can hook whatever RCA cable I have available for signal.

I unhooked the speaker and signal cables from my EP4000 and plugged them into the XLS 5000.
OBJECTIVE observations:
-- It really is a variable speed fan. With no signal, it doesn't spin, but with any type of load, it speeds up. Using an SPL meter, I found it to be about 5 decibles quieter than the EP4000 fan. Not a huge amount, but because it is a bigger fan, the sound is lower in tone... maybe less annoying for some people.
-- Low noise floor. Not as low as the EP4000, which is silent, but low enough so I had to put my ear a few inches from the tweeter to hear any hiss. My speakers are 91dB efficient, for reference.
-- Input sensitivity. About the same as the EP4000. That is, after my Denon's auto-calibration is run, the gain knobs on the amp turned 1/3rd of way up result in a dB adjustment of around zero... the range is -12 to +12, like most receivers.

SUBJECTIVE Observations: Sounds just like the EP4000 amps, which sounded just like the Denon 4311ci amps. I like the indented gain knobs. I like the fact it weighs 70lbs and says Crown on the front so I can brag to my friends.
Seriously, though. It's just a large simple amp. I'm going to stick in my basement and forget about it, but enjoy the clean power it give my speakers.
Thanks again for the heads up on this deal, Gorilla83!
post #48 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Ok, I got the Hosa XLR to RCA adapters. $10 well spent. Now I can hook whatever RCA cable I have available for signal.

I unhooked the speaker and signal cables from my EP4000 and plugged them into the XLS 5000.
OBJECTIVE observations:
-- It really is a variable speed fan. With no signal, it doesn't spin, but with any type of load, it speeds up. Using an SPL meter, I found it to be about 5 decibles quieter than the EP4000 fan. Not a huge amount, but because it is a bigger fan, the sound is lower in tone... maybe less annoying for some people.
-- Low noise floor. Not as low as the EP4000, which is silent, but low enough so I had to put my ear a few inches from the tweeter to hear any hiss. My speakers are 91dB efficient, for reference.
-- Input sensitivity. About the same as the EP4000. That is, after my Denon's auto-calibration is run, the gain knobs on the amp turned 1/3rd of way up result in a dB adjustment of around zero... the range is -12 to +12, like most receivers.

SUBJECTIVE Observations: Sounds just like the EP4000 amps, which sounded just like the Denon 4311ci amps. I like the indented gain knobs. I like the fact it weighs 70lbs and says Crown on the front so I can brag to my friends.
Seriously, though. It's just a large simple amp. I'm going to stick in my basement and forget about it, but enjoy the clean power it give my speakers.
Thanks again for the heads up on this deal, Gorilla83!

Thanks again for the quick review! Can't wait to try it out with my subs when the time comes.
post #49 of 49
Thread Starter 
My wife gave me an early bday present today since I finished up my wiring in the house for the new dedicated circuit.

From the JTR Cap thread...

I had a chance to test out my Crown XLS5000 with my pair of Caps this afternoon. I'm now also running a dedicated 20A line for my sub amp. Holy ##@! this amp has some MAJOR power. It's like listening to different subs now. My lamp in the back corner of the room actually fell off the table. My tv started doing weird things when the bass would really slam, heh. Since I'm not yet running a HPF I limited my listening to music for now. Yes, the fan is LOUD, but I'll see what I can do about swapping it out. It does vary quite a bit but after 20+ minutes listening at insane levels in 2 ohm stereo it was like a mini-tornado, lol. At that point the air coming out of the amp was finally warm. For the first 10 minutes or so it was still ice cold. To give you a point of reference, the loudest the fan got was 78-80db right in front of the amp and would ramp down to 68-70db-ish once the abuse settled a bit. I'll probably take a look at that fan that's in there, but I'll leave it alone for a bit. After listening to the caps blasting, the ambient noise of the fan didn't quite seem so bad anymore.

Cranked up a little dubstep, running the subs about 4-5db hot at reference. I'm talking SOLID (not peak) 125+DB from the listening position in a 8000+ cubic foot room open to at least another 6000. The meter was pegged several times as you can see from the clip below. For reference, when using my Berry with similar music it would usually average around 118ish and peak in the low 120s. After that point the EP would go into clipping hard. Even in such an open room the pressure was insane. Funny enough, the subs are nowhere near ideally placed either. I'll be experimenting with that later this week - although it's not like I really want any more output so I wouldn't really be doing it for that reason. I can't imagine what one of these would sound like in the corner, nearfield. I'd imagine 130+DB RMS at the LP easily. I can't tell you that this amp will be flat to 2hz as some are concerned with, but I can tell you there is a tremendous difference between this and my EP4000 I previously had powering them. So far LOVING this amp, it would just be nice to figure out the fan situation if possible.

For those that are truly insane, you could run 1 of these bad boys on each cap in 8 ohm bridged mode. This would give you 3750 watts per sub.

Pros: $hitloads of power on the cheap. Big, heavy, beast with tons of punch and virtually unlimited headroom. Stable at 2 ohm stereo and even runs relatively cool when pushed pretty hard.

Cons: As with almost any other pro audio amp, the fan is noticeably loud. Doesn't seem quite as loud as my EP4, but still may be unacceptable in it's unmodded state for most. Requires a 20A dedicated line, which may not be an option for all.

A sample below. Warning: My iphone camera mic apprently does not like this type of pressure being recorded so keep your volume down, heh.


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