Micca EP950! - Page 11

Okay I just tried the tests again with the video output set to HDMI Auto. I get the same exact results. Stuttering for 23.976 files, no stuttering for 24.000 files.

I also wanted to mention again that while Playing those test files, the screen flashes vivid green for a brief instant. It doesn't happen every time I play a test clip, only sometimes. Very strange - the green flash has never happened when playing actual videos, only these test files. Any explanation for that one?

So far I cant find any proof that any Samsung displays 24p properly.
.Just becuse the set has a 24p mode...any decent one will..doesnt mean it actually works properly...it would be difficult for Micca to fix what isnt broken.

..as many articles like Cnet's suggest , if you have it fine, if you dont, dont lose sleep over it.......unless you are filthy rich..

All I know for sure is that 24p playback is tricky and some of us with the Micca are getting it and some arent.

I learned many years ago to not worry about specs and take equipment for what it is worth....unless you are filthy rich..
If we were all being purists we would all have Kuros and high-end audio-seprates.
Sorry if Im sounding ridiculous to you.....I spent many years in retail and in personal circles dealing with thousands of little problems like this and usually the solution was real simple....

To put this issue into perspective, this has all been discussed before. Realtek historically has had major trouble enabling 23.976Hz playback. I don't know why, as all Blu-ray players work correctly.

Some past threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20146878
http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26649
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.ph...c=935.130;wap2
http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&p=23253
http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=9343

If the player does not output the video at the correct frame rate, then it is highly unlikely it can be fixed in the display because the display cannot tell if the video is supposed to be that way. It is also quite unlikely that only some 24Hz-capable displays exhibit this problem because there is no communication mechanism between the display and the player that can discriminate between 24Hz and 23.976Hz (in the EDID these two are the same mode). It is probable, however, that it's easier to see the issue on some displays than others due to setup and hold and various frame rate conversions and smoothings (both of which make the video less like the original) that many displays do these days. It is also probable that some people are more sensitive to this than others (like rainbows in DLP projectors). I, for instance, am very sensitive to this issue and refuse to watch a movie when this is happening. It's like having a phone ringing every 42 seconds - it takes you out of the movie.

Amen HolySmoke

Im done dicussing it myself.....it works for me and Im happy....
Time to dance and sing

From CNET's review of the PN51D7000:

"While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above. We asked a Samsung rep about this black-level rise and he mentioned that it was due to the need to cycle the phosphors more quickly to achieve the 96Hz refresh rate required."

Can we stop with this now please?

Seriously, it's like everything I say to isolar801 is going in one ear and out the other. I have tested HokeySmoke's files with CinemaSmooth both on and off. The stuttering happens either way. Normally, I leave CinemaSmooth on myself. The blacks are still excellent. Sometimes I turn it off for certain programming. Let me repeat a part of the review above, in case you forgot already:

"While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above."

So yes, it does handle 1080p/24 sources properly, when CinemaSmooth mode is enabled. The cost is a loss of black levels. That's Samsung's fault. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. The point is, it is capable of proper cadence. And I have tested the files both ways, and they both have the same exact stutter. Even with it off, it would not cause a stutter every 42 seconds. It doesn't work that way.

But since we're at it, the review goes on to say:

"In our test clip of the flyover of the Intrepid from "I Am Legend," the difference between CinemaSmooth and Off was subtle but obvious. In the former mode the movement of objects in the frame has a regular cadence, smooth but not too smooth, that we associate with film. In the latter the cadence stuttered slightly with a sort of hitching motion characteristic of 2:3 pull-down. Such differences won't be as apparent in most scenes, but sticklers who want to see the true motion of film at all times will engage CS to the detriment of black levels on this TV."

He mentions when it is off, it has a regular "hitching motion" throughout, characteristic of 3:2 pulldown. Not a stutter of once every 42 seconds - a steady stutter like 3:2 pulldown experienced with DVD viewing for instance. Then again, even 24fps has film stutter. 24fps is not perfectly smooth. Like CNET said, it's "smooth but not too smooth".

Whether or not I decide to use my tv with CinemaSmooth on or off though is not the issue here. That's my choice, and either way, the stuttering I describe in my test results are not caused by my tv. If isolar801 can't accept at this point that my tv can handle 1080p/24 properly, then I don't know what else to say. According to CNET, it has the capability. And no matter how I set it, the test files stutter.

And, as far as I can tell, HokeySmoke didn't back up what you said in his last post here. Actually, he kind of said what I've been saying all along: it's unlikely to be happening on some sets and not others. It's more likely that either some tv's cover it up more, or some people don't notice it. Also, Realtek has a history of problems with 23.976 playback. And all blu-ray players seem to handle it fine.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

Wow. What a waste of time and effort to have to go through this. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering. Those in this thread that know the issues know what's going on. If Isolar801 doesn't get it, then I can't help that. I'm done jousting with isolar801. I want to get back to trying to see what, if anything, Micca can do about these issues.

We know that Realtek has a problem with 23.976 playback. So the real question is, can Micca/HiMedia do anything on their end to solve the issue, or is it hard-baked into the Realtek chips and nothing can be done about it firmware-wise? That's what I would like to know.

One final note to isolar801: you asked on page 10 why I don't just turn off the 24Hz in the Micca? Well, in case you haven't noticed, the Micca can play full 3D blu-ray ISOs. You cannot play full 3D ISOs at 1080p/60Hz - the limitation is 1080p@24, or 720p@60. That's a limitation of the HDMI specs for 3D, which was discussed earlier in this thread. Even if you turn off 24Hz, as soon as you try to play a 3D blu-ray, the Micca switches to 24Hz. So at the moment, I have 2 choices when playing my 3D ISOs:

- 720p@60Hz, which gives smooth motion, but it's only played at 720p! For my full 1080p ISO!
- 1080p@24Hz, which gives full blu-ray resolution, but, thanks to the 23.976 issue with this player, I get frame drops every 42 seconds.

That's a lousy choice to have to make. 720p and smooth or 1080p and stuttering. Do you understand now why it is important to get this issue resolved? If this issue remains, there is no way to play full 3D blu-rays at full 1080p resolution, without the stutter. The only option is to play it at 720p@60, and lose resolution. 2D blu-rays can play at 1080p@60, but not 3D blu-rays.

GusGus748s, glad you're enjoying it. I'm tired.

I need to check this to confirm.


We are in the process of isolating the issue and can give you a definite answer once we are certain that we have found the root cause and has a solution for all affected.

If it turns out to be a hardware issue, we will offer an exchange for all that are affected. We will work out the logistics of everything. Thus far, we believe that about 10% of the units have this issue.

Jack@Micca: Could you suggest that this player be added support for mkv3d?

Just got my 950. It's brand new with no scratches, a good start.

1. Hooked it up, turned it on and walla, it has the on/off problem.

2. Updated to 1.0.3.7. firmware, still has the on/off problem.

3. Played a few 2d videos thru USB flash drive, worked fine except a couple times after hitting the stop button to go to another video the screen went dark and hung up. Had to turn the unit on and off to get it playing again. Seems like the unit is not quite stable yet even with latest firmware.

4.Now I need to install an internal HD since my MO is to transfer files from my PC over the LAN to the internal HD and play off of that. I will probably never use the USB except for firmware updates.

My first question is about HD installation. The manual does not address this at all which needs to be corrected. In the meantime I am installing a previously used HD.

So do I: Format with NTFS in my pc and install in 950 or format in pc then also format in 950 or skip the pc and only format in the 950 and if so will the data that's already on the HD cause problems? I seem to remember reading that the player uses a different file system than NTFS or Fat32. Jack also posted something about recovering first before a HD install?

Maybe Jack or someone else can post a step by step proceedure for HD install to save me some time?? If so thanks in advance.

I will say for $150 this player is a great deal if some issues can be worked out.

If you get stability issues, try updating to the latest firmware using the recovery mode. Then use the player to format the HDD installed in the player.

Casper 77

So far for me its played every mkv3D file I have.....

HokeySmoke made a post in the HiMedia thread saying that after a new round of tests, he sees now that the Micca/Himedia stutters at both 24Hz and 60Hz, though the 60Hz is much less noticeable.

Every time I hear about another issue like this, I'm a step closer to switching to a Dune. I want this player to work out because I especially like the 3D playback and ISO support. I also think it's a well-built unit (excluding the power issue). But I thought the 60Hz mode was a "safe" video mode that would not exhibit stutter. Now it seems that is not correct, and even that mode suffers from the dropped frames. Very disappointing. I'm strongly considering my options at this point. I would really like to hear something official regarding the dropped frames from Micca because this is the main reason I am considering returning the product. If Micca has any intention of addressing the dropped frames, I wish they would let us know here in the forum. I trust eventually they will solve the power issue. But if nothing can be done to solve the dropped frames, then I don't think this player will be the answer for me. If they can solve the frame dropping issue, I would likely hang onto this player. I think if this player could get these issues worked out, it has the potential to be a very good player that deserves a place in the market. As it is right now, not so much to be honest.

I doubt that....I am not talking about regular mkv sbs movies. I am referring to these same movies but flagged with the 3D info (sbs ot t/b) These files have an extension of mk3D, and If not mistaken the popbox was the first player to support this.

Jack@micca

Jack,
Can I ask a question of you please?
I am running the latest Micca EP950 firmware 1.3.0.7

This is my TV:
Sony BRAVIA KDL55HX820 55-Inch 1080p 3D LED HDTV
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BRAVIA-KD...0149236&sr=1-3

I am using these HDMI cables:
http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Ul.../ref=pd_cp_e_1

My Micca and my TV is plugged in via HDMI into this sound bar (new model):
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YHT-S40...0150595&sr=1-1

I cannot get the 3d to work properly with the Miccia and my TV. After starting a movie I hit the menu button on the Micca remote and have tried both 3d modes (side by side and upper/ lower) (the tv auto-detects an incoming 3d signal ) but the 3d in both modes is un-watchable. It looks as if almost half of the 3d picture is on the wrong side of the screen? I have also hit the "swap left-right" option below the 3d choices but it has little to no impact.

Is my particular tv incompatible? Have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

mace77, that might be an issue you would want to call Yamaha about. That sound bar is supposed to support 3D passthrough, but a quick look on Amazon shows a review by somebody who says it won't pass through 3D. Have you tried to run the Micca directly to your tv, just to see if you get 3D that way? If so, then it is the soundbar that is the issue. Give it a try.

What kind of 3D movie are you watching? Is it an ISO, sbs mkv, etc.?

I will give that a try in the mornng. All of my movies are in ISO format. I stream them from a Windows home server.

Thanks for your input.

Well I know not to take anything you say seriously from now on.

Hello, 1995 called and want their villain back.

Microsoft? Seriously?

You're either an Apple fanatic or one of those people that think everything is still Bush's fault. Actually those are usually one in the same.

I think the problem is Americans have become too used to instant gratification and have way too much time on their hands.

Instead of productive discussions, there's a few people who seem to think forums like this are a cheap alternative to their Xanax.

If you don't like the product, return it for you $150. It's not like software where you're screwed the minute you purchase it (iTunes Store anyone?).

mace777, if it's an ISO you're playing then you shouldn't have to select anything from the 3D menu once you start playback. What type of menu are you using? Direct Play, Bd-lite or BD 1.0? If you select direct play it should start playback of the ISO and send the image in frame-packed 3D, which your tv should automatically see and go into 3D mode from there. I'm not familiar with how the Sonys work though, so maybe you have to enable something on your tv once you start playback.

Hopefully that comment above about the forum being "a cheap alternative to their Xanax" is not in reference to some of my posts (not that it matters anyways). I think I've been quite productive here, trying to get to the heart of these issues that many of us are having. There's a reason why I haven't returned this yet. A) because it is one of the few players (1186) to support 3D ISO playback, B) the price was right for me, since other similar players with the same chip cost more, C) I love the build quality, feature set, style and design of the unit, and D) because I am trying to give the company a chance to make things right. And I am somewhat offended by your comment about Americans. Nice way to lump us all together like that. I probably shouldn't even say anything since I'm hoping this thread will stay focused on the Micca EP950. But I just can't understand the attitude of "if you don't like it, return it". I wonder if Micca feels the same way? I'm betting they don't. Most companies want us to keep their products, and any decent company will work with their customers to see if a solution can be found if there is a problem. I'm giving Micca the chance to prove they are one of those companies. Most of us are here because we want to like this product, but right now there are flaws keeping us from being happy with it.

Casper 77

Never heard of MK3D.......guess the V makes a difference !

Must have been that damn Bush again.....

Eagle_2,

Once again, thanks for your response. I was hoping the player could convert (non-3d) (non-blue-ray) standard ISO files into a 3d format for my television on the fly?

This is why I went to the menu to turn on the 3d conversion feature. Not really sure what you mean by the "type of menu, Direct Play, Bd-lite or BD 1.0".

All of my iso files are movie only with no menus so the movie starts the moment I hit play.

None of the above

mace777, when I mention "Direct Play, Bd-lite or BD 1.0", those are options in the Micca. Under "Intelligent setup", under "BDMV Navigation", you have a choice of Direct Play, BD Lite, BD 1.0, or Ask When Play". I select Ask When Play because then every time I play an ISO or BDMV folder, a popup asks me which menu mode I want. For 3D you want Direct Play or BD-Lite might work also. If you select BD 1.0 you get full 1.0 menu support but then you can't play a 3D ISO in 3D, only 2D. So to watch a 3D ISO you can't select BD 1.0. Hope this doesn't sound too confusing.

As far as conversion, the Micca allows on-the-fly 3D conversion. When playing a video, bring up the main menu and select 3D Simulation. Don't expect miracles though. Instant 3D conversion is really only for fun, and it's more of a curiosity thing to me. It takes Hollywood studios months to convert a 2D film to 3D properly, and then the results range from very good to quite poor depending on the quality of the job.

I recently bought this media streamer and I'm not sure if I have a defective unit or just have the wrong settings. I have it connected via HDMI to a Pioneer VSX-1021K (with 7.1 speakers) then to my TV. Every video with surround sound I play (5.1 FLAC and AC3) will produce a loud static sound on the speakers not being used. This doesn't happen with video files featuring DTS or Dolby surround sound but.

I looked at the following link
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ers/VSX-1021-K

I saw that there is a "Required Firmware Upgrade" for that Pioneer unit regarding a DSP bug. I do not know if this is the problem, but the new firmware has:

CHANGE HISTORY:
Ver 1-151-081-111-031 (Updated on 4/6/2011)
- Fixes audio noise or no sound under certain conditions.

At the above link I clicked on "Specifications" and then then the "Decoders & Formats" drop down. Nothing there answered the question. However, AC3 should be supported by every decoder since it is a USA transmission standard for OTA.

So if it's not firmware in the Pioneer, problem could be a defective EP950 or a defective Pioneer unit.

Have you used the Pioneer with other AC3 sources that are connected through HDMI?

Are there audio conversion settings in either the EP950 or Pioneer that make a difference for this?

I have the same reciever.....make sure in the set-up menu that the system is set to the configuration you are using....I presume 7.1
And by all means run the auto-seup with the microphone...and do the firmware update also...
And set the Micca to RAW audio output..

I mentioned AC3 5.1 in my previous post the but the issue is AAC 5.1. The Pioneer VSK-1021K and EP950 has updated firmware but the sound issue still persist. AAC 5.1 (PCM conversion) played fine when I tried using a PS3 to play a video file. If I configured the EP950 to HDMI raw audio output to the receiver, I don't get any audio with 5.1 AAC and FLAC. Otherwise I have it on the auto setting which converts audio into PCM for the receiver.

Try switching the "Fixed PCM" setting on and off on the Pioneer

I am satisfied with file play from the internal hard drive and from usb. It cannot play all file types over UPNP this. I believe is a function of the DLNA spec, or the server you use on your computer? I use Serviio for windows XP.
The internet browser works without an extra keyboard, using the remote only. Push the ok button to load in the search name into Google, then press ok. Then push the red key on top of the remote to allow you to navigate to the site you want. However, many sites come up with "missing plugin". I suspect the browser does not have Java at all, or has an outdated version. Can this be fixed in a future firmware release? Jack please reply.
Also, Android cannot work at all with the remote for entering data. Can,t this be fixed by firmware update, to allow entry and navigation similar to that used for the browser?
As far as the turning on problem, I consider it a minor annoyance. All you have to do is push the on off button 3 times, about a second or two apart, and the unit will start. Total time wasted about 5 seconds.

I was about the chime in with the same recommendation. Thanks Eagle_2!

Whenever a customer contacts us regarding display/modes related issues and a receiver type device is in the signal chain, we always recommend connecting the player directly to the TV first to see if that works correctly.

Richard seen you here on quite a few topics--have you bought a media player yet or still looking.