Originally Posted by isolar801
So far I cant find any proof that any Samsung displays 24p properly.
.Just becuse the set has a 24p mode...any decent one will..doesnt mean it actually works properly...it would be difficult for Micca to fix what isnt broken
From CNET's review of the PN51D7000:"While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above. We asked a Samsung rep about this black-level rise and he mentioned that it was due to the need to cycle the phosphors more quickly to achieve the 96Hz refresh rate required."
Can we stop with this now please?
Seriously, it's like everything I say to isolar801 is going in one ear and out the other. I have tested HokeySmoke's files with CinemaSmooth both on and off. The stuttering happens either way. Normally, I leave CinemaSmooth on myself. The blacks are still excellent. Sometimes I turn it off for certain programming. Let me repeat a part of the review above, in case you forgot already:"While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above."
So yes, it does handle 1080p/24 sources properly, when CinemaSmooth mode is enabled. The cost is a loss of black levels. That's Samsung's fault. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. The point is, it is capable of proper cadence. And I have tested the files both ways, and they both have the same exact stutter. Even with it off, it would not cause a stutter every 42 seconds. It doesn't work that way.
But since we're at it, the review goes on to say:"In our test clip of the flyover of the Intrepid from "I Am Legend," the difference between CinemaSmooth and Off was subtle but obvious. In the former mode the movement of objects in the frame has a regular cadence, smooth but not too smooth, that we associate with film. In the latter the cadence stuttered slightly with a sort of hitching motion characteristic of 2:3 pull-down. Such differences won't be as apparent in most scenes, but sticklers who want to see the true motion of film at all times will engage CS to the detriment of black levels on this TV.
He mentions when it is off, it has a regular "hitching motion" throughout, characteristic of 3:2 pulldown. Not a stutter of once every 42 seconds - a steady stutter like 3:2 pulldown experienced with DVD viewing for instance. Then again, even 24fps has film stutter. 24fps is not perfectly smooth. Like CNET said, it's "smooth but not too smooth".
Whether or not I decide to use my tv with CinemaSmooth on or off though is not the issue here. That's my choice, and either way, the stuttering I describe in my test results are not caused by my tv. If isolar801 can't accept at this point that my tv can handle 1080p/24 properly, then I don't know what else to say. According to CNET, it has the capability. And no matter how I set it, the test files stutter.
And, as far as I can tell, HokeySmoke didn't back up what you said in his last post here. Actually, he kind of said what I've been saying all along: it's unlikely to be happening on some sets and not others. It's more likely that either some tv's cover it up more, or some people don't notice it. Also, Realtek has a history of problems with 23.976 playback. And all blu-ray players seem to handle it fine.
Isn't that what I've been saying all along?
Wow. What a waste of time and effort to have to go through this. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering. Those in this thread that know the issues know what's going on. If Isolar801 doesn't get it, then I can't help that. I'm done jousting with isolar801.
I want to get back to trying to see what, if anything, Micca can do about these issues.
We know that Realtek has a problem with 23.976 playback. So the real question is, can Micca/HiMedia do anything on their end to solve the issue, or is it hard-baked into the Realtek chips and nothing can be done about it firmware-wise? That's what I would like to know.
One final note to isolar801: you asked on page 10 why I don't just turn off the 24Hz in the Micca? Well, in case you haven't noticed, the Micca can play full 3D blu-ray ISOs. You cannot play full 3D ISOs at 1080p/60Hz
- the limitation is 1080p@24, or 720p@60. That's a limitation of the HDMI specs for 3D, which was discussed earlier in this thread. Even if you turn off 24Hz, as soon as you try to play a 3D blu-ray, the Micca switches to 24Hz
. So at the moment, I have 2 choices when playing my 3D ISOs:
- 720p@60Hz, which gives smooth motion, but it's only played at 720p! For my full 1080p ISO!
- 1080p@24Hz, which gives full blu-ray resolution, but, thanks to the 23.976 issue with this player, I get frame drops every 42 seconds.
That's a lousy choice to have to make. 720p and smooth or 1080p and stuttering. Do you understand now why it is important to get this issue resolved? If this issue remains, there is no way to play full 3D blu-rays at full 1080p resolution, without the stutter. The only option is to play it at 720p@60, and lose resolution. 2D blu-rays can play at 1080p@60, but not 3D blu-rays.
GusGus748s, glad you're enjoying it.