Micca EP950! - Page 12

I realy wish we could get some kind of confirmation from Micca on whether or not this stuttering/framerate issue can be sorted out. If it is an issue with the chip and can't be corrected in firmware, please let us know so that those of us who have issues with the stuttering can make a decision on whether we want to keep the unit or not. If it can be fixed in firmware, please let us know because at this point there are many concerned customers who just want to know if this can even be resolved or not.

Stutter issue.
The issue reported here has been observed on 3 different brands of the players based on the the Realtek 1186 chip, by two different users, in 2 threads or more threads.

The issue is that when playing content on the micca, iconbit and himedia players based on the Realtek 1186 chip, some users are reporting a periodic stutter in the playback video, when observed on the TV.

The stutter is an extra frame or dropped frame, causing a lack of smooth motion in the content being played, when viewed on the connected monitor.

The stutter lasts for only a fraction of a second. The first stutter occurs at a random time after playback starts, but within 42 seconds of when playback starts. The next stutter occurs about 42 seconds after the previous stutter, thus being periodic in nature and related to the frame rate of the video content and frame rate of video playback.

To help isolate and replicate the problem, a user (avsforum name Hokeysmake) generated these test files. These files can be downloaded at either of the following links.

7 files inside a 7zip file requires 7zip extractor
http://st7.us/MotionBarsH264.7z (26MB)

Or get this
7 files uses the extractor built into windows (larger zip file)
http://st7.us/moving-h264-7files.zip (104MB)

The files inside the two zips at the links above are the identical 7 files. The links differ in the type of lossless compression used to make a single file download pack.

The test files use motion bars with frame counters.

File Names Describe Frame Rates
MotionBars_720p50.000.m2ts
MotionBars_720p59.940.m2ts
MotionBars_720p60.000.m2ts
MotionBars_1080p23.976.m2ts
MotionBars_1080p24.000.m2ts
MotionBarsSBS_1080p23.976.m2ts
MotionBarsSBS_1080p24.000.m2ts

If ordinary video was played instead of test files, an observant user would notice the stutter if there was motion in the playback video at the time of the stutter occurring.

The stuttering occurs when the 1080 playback is selected, for the files that have frame rates of 59.94 and 23.976.

Playing the test files that have names indicated frames rates other than those listed, which are included in the test set, does not result in a stutter.

It is conclusively shown that the stutter occurs when the subject player is directly connected to the TV, and is not caused by a slow hard drive, nor LAN bandwidth problem, nor AV gear in the HDMI connection.

The stutter has been shown to occur on more than one brand of TV, although there is evidence that some TVs do not display the stutter, while other TVs do. It is not conclusive that this is an interoperability issue with specific TVs, though the possibility exists.

One of the users has reported that a different brand and model of a media player, which does not use the Realtek 1186 chip, does not produce the stutter with any of the test files. Importantly, the same user reported that with the same TV connected to the Realtek 1186 based player, the stutter occurs. Therefore, although there may be an interoperability problem between specific TVs and the Realtek 1186 based players, it is not deemed to be the fault of the TV.

This analysis indicates that there is a lack of ability in the Realtek 1186 based players, with currently available firmware, to smoothly play all frame rates, while other type of players can play smoothly, with all other conditions the same.

The stutter can be be eliminated by playing the files at 720 instead of 1080, but this forces the user to adopt a reduced resolution in the played back image quality.

The requirement and variability of TVs and a human observer can be eliminated from testing by using HDMI capture and test equipment connected to the HDMI output of the player being tested. None of the users reporting this stutter problem have yet reported using test equipment to analyze the problem. All testing was done by human observers on retail purchased TVs. Some observers are more adept at seeing the stutter than others, since it was reported that when there is more than one person watching at the same time, not all the people watching see the stutter. It is just for a fraction of a second every 42 seconds, and can be lost in a blink.

Since the stutter has been reported by several users and with several brands, it is less likely this is a defect in the particular player, and more likely a chip design or firmware issue.

The above description contains diligently collected information from several individuals. It was posted here to inform those who are associated with the vendors of these players.

Thank you, Richard. That is a very accurate assessment of the current situation with these 1186 based players, and I truly hope that Micca/Himedia take notice and address the issue.

If I knew there was truly a fix possible, and in the works, I would very likely hang onto this player. But the silence regarding this stuttering issue is worrying. I believe Jack when he says they will work out a fix for the power issue. But as far as the stuttering problem goes, it is the one reason I am strongly considering getting a refund and jumping to a non-1186-based player. If this can be fixed, please let us know. I want to hang onto this player, but not if the stutter problem cannot be corrected.

I think a bit of patience may be warranted, as there are certainly other bugs to fix as well. I pointed out a rather severe color space conversion problem on the Sigma chips (including the Dune at the time), and it took more than a year to correct. It eventually required intervention from Sigma's VP of Product Marketing (who is a video guru himself). See below for the whole thread:

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/sh....php?tid=19366

(or for a shorter AVSForum version, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1208518 )

Unfortunately it's always the customers that suffer when issues like this arise. I bought a media player because I need something to play my movies with now, not in 6 months or a year. If I want to watch anything in 23.976fps this weekend, I have to either watch it with stuttering or watch it in 720p. I understand these fixes take time, but it doesn't help when a company remains silent on an issue, and you are left to wonder if anybody is even planning to do anything about it or not.

And when a customer just paid close to $200 for a media player, and is told he could be waiting months or longer for a possible fix for a rather serious issue, which affects his enjoyment of the player, unfortunately the customer ends up re-considering his options. I can either wait and see what happens here, and maybe there will be a fix, and maybe not, and meanwhile, I can't watch any 23.976 3D ISO material without stutter, nor any 23.976 material in 1080p without the same issues, or I can go with a different player.

I don't mean to sound impatient, but really, there's nothing worse than buying an expensive product (yes $200 is a lot of money for some of us) and looking forward to using it, only to find you can't really enjoy it until the company issues some fix that may or may not ever happen.

I think the power issue alone is reason enough to send it back. If it is hardware related, which I think it is, then chances are you will be paying the shipping to them to have it fixed since that's their warranty policy and who knows how long it will take. If you got it from Amazon then it's free shipping back to them if it's defective. If the power issue is prevalent on only 10% of players then I don't know how it could be firmware related.

Well I guess I will consider myself lucky because my 950 is working great. Watched a 1080p 3d iso with the fam and it was fantastic, great picture, depth and smooth all the way through. Sorry you guys ended up with lemons, I would think getting a replacement couldn't end up much worse from the sound of things. Good luck.

Thank you Micca for a working version of a great media player.

Just noticed there is a new himedia firmware this morning with a lot of fixes. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

djc11369, I think you may be correct. If it's only 10% of units affected by the power issue, then it's got to be a hardware issue. So I could get an exchange for free from Amazon and hope for a non-defective unit, or wait until Micca offers a fix, but probably have to pay for shipping to get it fixed/replaced.

That's a question for Jack maybe. Jack, once Micca offers a fix for the power on/off issue, will we be required to cover shipping for the unit or will it be covered?

eagle_2, I had a thought based on an hp printer that I have. It has issues waking from sleep mode if it's plugged into a power strip, plugged directly into a wall the issue disappears. It apparently has to do with a lower voltage from the strip from what I read. I know it's not an apples to apples scenario and doubt it's the issue but it might be worth a try if you do have it plugged in this way.

Well I have it plugged into a surge protector. There's no way I'd trust this plugged into a wall without a protector.

I did a safe install with the new himedia firmware, and tested HokeySmoke's files. The stutter issue still exists, so that hasn't improved.

I noticed there's now an option for depth under 3D settings when in 3D mode.

What are you driving? I'm driving the vip displayer and h5360 with my Himedia
and don't see their problem of dropped frames. Watched about six different movies to date.

It's likely you cannot see it because of the 120Hz display you're using. When I run the patterns into a 120Hz display, the frame repeat is difficult to catch due to the increased motion problems created by the 2:3 cadence when converting from 24Hz to 60Hz. Essentially, the noise floor is increased so the "bad" signal is masked. I believe it is still there. There is no logical mechanism I am aware of that would cause it to be there with some displays but not others.

Amazon's generous policies are time limited. Be sure to check their time limits for returns prior to waiting too long.

Could you point me to this new firmware? I have been searching for it but I keep coming up with old versions.

Regardless of the percentage affected, users should not have to wait for Micca to take care of this Quality Assurance issue. Micca should go through their inventory and take out all units that have this defect, and offer an immediate exchange for this, which would otherwise be a potential class action.

Time is of the essence. This admitted defect should be remedied immediately. Speculation (not even an opinion) is that Micca is waiting for people's 30 day warranties to run out so they don't have to fix the units.

Then I am lead to speculate (not even an opinion) as to why 10% of the Micca units are affected with this power button issue. Maybe they buy defective internal boards (common to these 1186 based players) that are rejects from other vendors. This could allow Micca to have the lowest price on the market, which Micca seems to have.

Usually when I post flaming messages like this, I fully expect some anonymous personal attacks. It's useless attacking the messenger, though I do get a grin out of it.

Here is a link to firmware I found at the post which is also linked below.

firmware
http://dl.himedia-tech.cn/HD900B/HD900_1.0.3.8.tar.gz

post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21707642

mace77, it's posted on page 41 of the himedia thread. Post #1216.

EDIT: Richard beat me to it.

I'm wondering if there's any difference in the generic 900 firmware vs 900B firmware. I believe I loaded the generic firmware one time and it didn't work right but installed the 900B firmware and the unit played fine. It was the problem with iso starting to play for 1 second then it would freeze.

Since the MIca supports an internal drive the 900B seems would be the preference.

Did not fix the issue. Should I exchange the unit with Amazon?

if this is true shouldn't I see an eye flip? if it's there it hasn't affected my viewing to date in either 3D iso's or sbs.

actually I should see ghosting occur gradually as opposed to eye flip. I can also run at 60 hz with my 60 hz projectors with the vip displayer.

The Micca Ep950 continues to frustrate me, and I'm not sure if I have enough faith to trust the problems will all be resolved.

Tonight I realized the same problem I had previously experienced trying to fast forward through previews of a DVD ISO, and after 5 chapter advances, I could not get a file to play from the HDD at all.

I gave up, and just played it from my network file.

Several times the audio dropped, apparently from interference or just network email refresh usage. Several times the audio dropped when making some popcorn in my microwave (the problem was isolated and replicated by the microwave) and then later I had the same problem for no apparent reason, perhap email refresh/network bandwidth (?)

Are you kidding me, interference from a microwave???

Regardless of why this is happening, I have really begun to lose my patience with all the problems with this product. My plan has been to convert my hundreds of DVDs and BDs to ISO for easy management, storage, selection, and playback. I mean I have all the DVD and BD discs, and it is far less trouble for me to just play them than go through the trouble of converting them to ISO and have all these hassles...

This product has so many bugs, it was clearly released before it was ready for marketing to the public. While my previous media player did not have the same "1080P or 3D capability" of this media player, I never once had a single problem playing any DVD ISO from my network. I have realized I really do just want a media player that plays what I give it reliably, and if I have to give up 3D for reliablity, I guess I am ready to make that concession until a reliable 3D media player comes on the market.

Sorry for the rant,

Cheers and good night, Dave

One thing is to make sure the microwave door closes and latches correctly, since they can be a bio-hazard to people and pets if they leak actual microwaves.

Even if not leading microwaves, the Interference from microwave ovens are a problem for me too, since the radio noise they put is out strong. At my house, wifi is ok for portable phones, computers, tablets, etc. When I am in the kitchen with my bluetooth headset on a call, turning the microwave on makes my bluetooth drops out.

I live in a rural area with very little interference from nearby neighbors, and yet even for me, a wired Lan connection for streaming video is more dependable, or should I say - mandatory for my wife's sanity.

No. The VIP is locked to the source. The eyes remain in sync because the source is frame packed.

No. Your display is frame locked to the VIP and the VIP is frame locked to the source. The VIP is running at 24.000Hz and the display is running at 120.000Hz. There will be no drift. The stutter occurs upstream of the 3D synchronization. It occurs inside of the player.

All viewing is done on 55" lg passive led lcd. Not the best tv but i really have no complaints picture and 3d wise.

My power on issue vanished some time ago btw.

I had problems with drift in my 60 hz projectors with frame lock until I used my hdfury2 and went in through component. I will try this to see if I notice anything
since this will me 60 hz and not 120 hz although I will see flicker in bright scenes.

Richard, you make some very valid points, and I do appreciate the summary of the problems you've posted in this tread, it has helped to keep the discussion focused.

For any product issues we encounter, we first find the root cause, then we take three separate actions - to address it with existing owners, address it with existing stock, and address it with current/future manufacturing.

Right now we are in the root-cause phase on the two main issues of power and 23.976 judder - and we do apologize for all the users who are affected by these issues. Prior to finding the root-cause and developing a course of action, we do not make decisions based on guesses.

The nature of the power-on problem is such that I have already indicated we will correct this problem with any customer who has an affected unit. We hope our conduct up to this point reassures our customers that we will follow through with a fix. For those customers that are not comfortable with this, Amazon's excellent 30-day return policy guarantees that the customer has zero out of pocket expense for doing a return. As a general rule, companies who have chronic product quality or customer service issues would not rely on Amazon for selling their products for fear of poor reviews and high return rates.

For the 23.976 judder, we need to determine which layer this problem exists in the firmware. If it exists at a deep enough of a layer, we will be limited in terms of what we are able to do to fix it and must rely on Realtek to address it in a future SDK release.

Once again, I want to acknowledge all of the good information posted in this thread; it has been invaluable.