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Epik Legend vs. HSU VTF-3 MK3 - Page 2

post #31 of 108
Thread Starter 
alright so I'm 99% sure I will be getting the HSU VTF3-MK3...the 1% chance is because there's always a chance that one of now TWO opportunities available to me to get this sub will fall through, but I'm going to do all I can to not let that happen

So, I've read a lot about subwoofer placement in a room and calibration using "audyssey" and "avia" etc. and I have little to no knowledge about all of it.

I have a yamaha rx-a3000 receiver and from what i've heard you have to buy avia and audyssey comes in some receivers- i know its not w/ mine

would it help to post a picture of my floor plan with the 7 possible locations I can place the sub for suggestions?

also is audyssey similar to the onboard mic/calibration system that plays that static sounding noise from each speaker?
post #32 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post

alright so I'm 99% sure I will be getting the HSU VTF3-MK3...the 1% chance is because there's always a chance that one of now TWO opportunities available to me to get this sub will fall through, but I'm going to do all I can to not let that happen

So, I've read a lot about subwoofer placement in a room and calibration using "audyssey" and "avia" etc. and I have little to no knowledge about all of it.

I have a yamaha rx-a3000 receiver and from what i've heard you have to buy avia and audyssey comes in some receivers- i know its not w/ mine

would it help to post a picture of my floor plan with the 7 possible locations I can place the sub for suggestions?

also is audyssey similar to the onboard mic/calibration system that plays that static sounding noise from each speaker?

Yamaha units use YAPO, similar to that of audyssey; some say not as good. I also have the 3.3 and love it.
post #33 of 108
Thread Starter 
so there's a vtf3.3 on ebay right now and it ends tonight...currently it's at $505...the only reason I'm considering extending my budget for this one is it is several years younger than the one i'm looking at in cali for $475 shipped to me. it was purchased in 2010 for $747...

should I just wait for the owner of the one in cali to get back from vacation in ~2 weeks to ship it to me (will probably have it here in ~3 weeks) or should i try and win this one on ebay...and if so how much should i bid? i would say 550 is really maxing it out but idk if that's even worth it for me.

any ideas?
post #34 of 108
Thread Starter 
well no replies...the sub sold for $585...too high for my budget
post #35 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac7504 View Post

Yamaha units use YAPO, similar to that of audyssey; some say not as good. I also have the 3.3 and love it.

Completely different animals.They don't share anything in common.
post #36 of 108
Thread Starter 
well can you expound on that rather than just saying they're so different?
post #37 of 108
Thread Starter 
just got an HSU VTF3-MK3

super excited to get it up and going!
post #38 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post

just got an HSU VTF3-MK3

super excited to get it up and going!

Glad to see you finally joined the club! Remember to try both modes, and experiment with placement, if you are able to, that really pays off. Try front corner placement and try near-field endtable placement too, if you can.
post #39 of 108
Post a review too, when you get a chance.
post #40 of 108
Thread Starter 
I am so excited it's scheduled to arrive tomorrow! I can't believe it's only taking 36 HOURS to arrive! I will be picking it up and setting it up tomorrow late morning/early afternoon...will post listening experiences/reviews/and most importantly what everyone wants....PICTURES! hahaha

it may take me some time to get everything I want to say on a post but i'll do as good of a job as i can as fast as i can!

Justin
post #41 of 108
Thread Starter 

so the arrival date was WAY off...haven't gotten it yet will post when i do w/ the review and pics etc.
post #42 of 108
Thread Starter 
First off I want to apologize for the length of this post and thank all of you who read it and help me figure all of this out!

Also, it won't let me upload the pictures...i've already re-sized them to accommodate the max file size.

So i called in yesterday afternoon and they said it arrived a few minutes before I called! I went down to the local greyhound bus terminal to pick it up...the box was not damaged at all- the process was very simple. I'm so glad I went this route vs ups or fedex- saved myself about 75 bucks!

After getting home and unboxing it i was blown away at the sheer size and beauty of this thing! It's SO much bigger than the supercube Reference we had and the polk psw-505 and the klipsch rw-12d I had for a while. What a beast! The condition is excellent save a small surface scratch on the top corner. I snapped pictures of the process and will be posting them for you guys!

So as was suggested I placed the sub right up against the couch where i would normally sit and plugged it in. I opted for the manual setup versus YPAO b/c I could change the speakers to "small" and manually set the crossover- YPAO has them all large by default and idk how to change it to small or change the crossover (you are unable to change the crossover setting when it's set to large i believe) (if someone does please let me know as I would imagine I could attain a better sound w/ YPAO vs. my manual inputs if I could change the speakers to small and adjust the crossover)

Unfortunately my first impression was an EPIC FAIL moment...after completing the manual setup (setting crossover, angle, distance, etc.) I played some familiar music "Geneis" by Justice, "Devastator" by For Today "Slam" by Pendulum, etc. and the only way I could describe how it sounded was NOT THERE- I was totally perplexed so I turned it up a bit to around 12-1 o'clock to see if that would change it but it didn't. The driver was moving like crazy but there was minimal sound emission and there certainly wasn't the air pressurization that i'm familiar with (i honestly got more air pressurization from my mains alone running full spectrum let alone the previous 3 subs I've had before)

Now, I KNOW there's something wrong- there's NO WAY that's how this thing actually sounds. I'm not an audio idiot as far as my ears are concerned but I'm afraid my technical knowledge of setup etc. may be ruining my experience.

NOTE: I tried it in BOTH max extension mode w/ 1 port plugged AND max output with both ports open- it made absolutely no difference.

The picture shows the sub placement at the listening seat. I attempted the subwoofer crawl and really had a rough time with it b/c like I just said the sub wasn't giving much bass/nose/pressure to begin with so it was REALLY hard to tell where the "sweet spot" was- all of it sounded SOUR to me But the bass was definitely more pronounced in certain areas than in the listening seat.

I then moved the sub to the spot right of my main right speaker and the sound improved DRAMATICALLY! However, I still think this baby has got more in it but at least I am able to HEAR the bass now...idk what in the world was the deal with the placement before and how that had such an impact on EVERYTHING. I really do believe this sub has amazing potential it just seems like I have to solve a puzzle to unlock it! LOL

I really want to try two other locations (both sides of my main couch) but my cables aren't long enough :/
Is it okay to daisy chain sub cables?

So, what do you all think I should do? Keep trying new placements? Also what about the YPAO vs. manual settings?

I'm going to get back to experimenting and will check back soon for replies and hopefully some tips on how to get those pics up on here for you dudes.

THANKS!

Justin
post #43 of 108
Congrats! You'll get great sound out of that once you figure out the best placement and tweak the configuration.

And sure. You can daisy chain the subwoofer cables to get things started.

One thing that Outlaw Audio owners recommend in our forum is that you want to keep the gain (volume) down on your sub such that the receiver ends up setting the channel/trim level in between -3db to +3db, even if it seems like the gain is turned way down. Then you can bump the trim level up on the receiver a couple of db if you need a little more bass. It seems to make the bass better than having the sub gain turned way up.
post #44 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Congrats! You'll get great sound out of that once you figure out the best placement and tweak the configuration.

And sure. You can daisy chain the subwoofer cables to get things started.

One thing that Outlaw Audio owners recommend in our forum is that you want to keep the gain (volume) down on your sub such that the receiver ends up setting the channel/trim level in between -3db to +3db, even if it seems like the gain is turned way down. Then you can bump the trim level up on the receiver a couple of db if you need a little more bass. It seems to make the bass better than having the sub gain turned way up.

thanks, i'm hoping so- really need to keep trying things to see what works best.
right now the db level of the sub on my receiver is set to 0db and the gain on the vtf3.3 is about 2 o'clock...is that about right? or if not what changes do i make?
post #45 of 108
I ran the gain at about 9- 10 o'clock and used the receiver to adjust sub volume. I was in a smallish room though too. Placement is huge with the 3.3 in my opinion. I would draw a diagram of your room and email it to Pete over at HSU. They should be able to help you find the best location. Pete told me that corner placement was best. Unfortunately I wasnt able to have it corner loaded but I still got great sound out of it.
post #46 of 108
Thread Starter 
okay so here's some pics that will hopefully help












post #47 of 108
Send these pictures to HSU and see what they recommend. If I were in charge of your room, i'd rearrange it, but I realize that will not happen. The tv should be placed on the wall opposite the brown couch. As you have your room, I'd try the corner next to that brown couch where the small speaker is poking out. I can tell you, that setting these subs past the 9:30 position it too much unless they are in huge rooms.

So the good news is that it isn't the sub. I am very familiar with that sub. It is a monster.

BTW, I have 2 identical subs in 2 different rooms in my home and one is in the right spot and sounds amazing, while the other in another room in the wrong spot. The same sub sounds only so so, but there is nothing I can do right now.

Bottom line - have the experts at HSU help you.

PS: I don't know the receiver you have but there maybe some issue also with setup in it. I recall someone couldn't get the sound right with a Yamaha receiver but finally some member was smart enough to figure it out.

Don't give up.
post #48 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post

thanks, i'm hoping so- really need to keep trying things to see what works best.
right now the db level of the sub on my receiver is set to 0db and the gain on the vtf3.3 is about 2 o'clock...is that about right? or if not what changes do i make?

Don't worry about what the gain on the sub should be--use the gain that puts the receiver in that -3db to +3db range after you run mic measurements. Everyone's gain setting will be different due to room size, placement, and room acoustic factors.
post #49 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdekany View Post

Send these pictures to HSU and see what they recommend. If I were in charge of your room, i'd rearrange it, but I realize that will not happen. The tv should be placed on the wall opposite the brown couch. As you have your room, I'd try the corner next to that brown couch where the small speaker is poking out. I can tell you, that setting these subs past the 9:30 position it too much unless they are in huge rooms.

So the good news is that it isn't the sub. I am very familiar with that sub. It is a monster.

BTW, I have 2 identical subs in 2 different rooms in my home and one is in the right spot and sounds amazing, while the other in another room in the wrong spot. The same sub sounds only so so, but there is nothing I can do right now.

Bottom line - have the experts at HSU help you.

PS: I don't know the receiver you have but there maybe some issue also with setup in it. I recall someone couldn't get the sound right with a Yamaha receiver but finally some member was smart enough to figure it out.

Don't give up.

thanks for your reply..yes that setup would be nice however the reason I can't do it that way is b/c I need to accommodate more seating room than just the one couch. if it were set up the way you propose (acoustically optimal) the width of the room would not allow for two couches side by side or at a 90 degree angle to one another as they are now.

when the level is down that low- as you said around the 930 position there is minimal bass coming from it...idk why b/c from what you're saying that should be a max

my room is between 3k and 4k cubic feet all in all

i have a yamaha rx-a3000 avr - or did you mean you know what i have but you aren't familiar w/ it?

lol i didn't spend $575 to give up! : I'm going to keep trying things and using advice i get to get it right!
post #50 of 108
OP - where is the space to put the sub next to the right main speaker? I can't see anything where the sub would fit. Did you put it in front of it? I do see some real estate past the left speaker.

cel4145 - I am wrong more times than right, but I really doubt that the gain is OK at 2 o'clock. Something else must be the problem. I have been using HSU subs since the early 90s and never seen one needing such high gain. They are really sensitive.

Plus, look at the OPs room - the sub is pretty close to the LP.

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest.

Peace!
post #51 of 108
I am nor saying the MAX should be 9:30, but 12:00 and 2:00 o'clock seems way too high. But as I said, I am wrong most of the time.

Could you try the sub in that corner between the couches?

PS: I don't know Yamaha receivers at all. But there was a huge thread here once with a yamaha receiver and the OP couldn't get the sub integrated until finally somebody figured it out for him. It was a setting in the receiver that caused the issue. That is all I recall

Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post

thanks for your reply..yes that setup would be nice however the reason I can't do it that way is b/c I need to accommodate more seating room than just the one couch. if it were set up the way you propose (acoustically optimal) the width of the room would not allow for two couches side by side or at a 90 degree angle to one another as they are now.

when the level is down that low- as you said around the 930 position there is minimal bass coming from it...idk why b/c from what you're saying that should be a max

my room is between 3k and 4k cubic feet all in all

i have a yamaha rx-a3000 avr - or did you mean you know what i have but you aren't familiar w/ it?

lol i didn't spend $575 to give up! : I'm going to keep trying things and using advice i get to get it right!
post #52 of 108
Thread Starter 
Okay so hopefully this will further the effort...I cleaned my room up a bit and took some pictures of where the sub COULD go as well as some wide angel shots to show the overall layout of my HT...

Where the sub is currently in the picture is the SECOND place I've tried to place it and is where it currently is. I moved it there after its initial placement near my listening position.

I will try the corner between my two couches next and see if there's an improvement- hopefully it will be as noticeable as the 2nd position over the 1st but we'll see.













post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post




My advice would be to place the sub where this end table is. Try it with both driver facing toward the seat and driver facing the wall to see if there is a difference.
post #54 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

My advice would be to place the sub where this end table is. Try it with both driver facing toward the seat and driver facing the wall to see if there is a difference.

just put the sub right in that corner between the two couches with the driver facing the light couch and the ports facing the wall and it sounds WAY better..it actually put a on my face for the first time all day haha i can't believe how much of a difference placement makes! still going to try some more stuff and see if i can get further improvement

post #55 of 108
Looked like wally for a second lol
post #56 of 108
That was what I suggest as well

OP: glad that you are getting better results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

My advice would be to place the sub where this end table is. Try it with both driver facing toward the seat and driver facing the wall to see if there is a difference.
post #57 of 108
For the love of god, clean up your room before you post pics! Nobody wants to see your dirty laundry
post #58 of 108
Now, if you really want to know if you are getting the sub setup right, try a blu-ray from one of the 4 to 5 star movies from this list: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. If you have it, I recommend the 2009 Star Trek. You don't have to find a scene. The opening background story scene is fantastic
post #59 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Now, if you really want to know if you are getting the sub setup right, try a blu-ray from one of the 4 to 5 star movies from this list: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. If you have it, I recommend the 2009 Star Trek. You don't have to find a scene. The opening background story scene is fantastic

yes this list looks fantastic...already have severa of these on blu ray...will start tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericthemidget View Post

For the love of god, clean up your room before you post pics! Nobody wants to see your dirty laundry

bahahaha sorry about that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdekany View Post

That was what I suggest as well

OP: glad that you are getting better results.

yes me too thank you!
post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy3 View Post

yes this list looks fantastic...already have severa of these on blu ray...will start tomorrow!

Try this song, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Uo0V1DNG8

Not my choice in electronica, but it has some ultra low bass, even lower than your sub can go. Good new subwoofer test to feel those very low frequencies. Just don't start it up cranked too loud.
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