Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 5

Joker: how did you get this thing to do 2D > 3D? Whenever I even touch the 3D menu on mine it locks up for 1-2 minutes and then defaults back to the previous setting. It took me almost 10 minutes tonight to get the projector in side-by-side in order to play my xbox360 in 3D. BenQ needs to fix this and fix it fast.

Edit *modifying pic size*

Anyone, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
maybe the pre-production model he has was different, but based on what I saw last night, the only difference between 2D and 3D's is that the 3D forces the lamp into high. I had full control of all the other options including gamma, color controls, etc when it was sync'd in 3D mode.

regarding glasses, I believe someone else mentioned that other DLP glasses worked (non benq), but these are my first DLP link glasses i'm seeing compared to the original JVC, Xpand 103, Sony (2 different models), Nvidia 3D vision and Monster Vision 3D.

@ Petri - from everything I can tell, the W7000 is strictly a DLP link projector, I don't see any means of switching it. I haven't tried the Nvidia 3D vision setup, but I will if there is time over the weekend.
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Thanks Zombie. So you can put the Picture Preset Mode to Dynamic while watching 3D content? If so then I'm really confused why people are saying the image isn't very bright in 3D considering the projector has 2000 lumens and Dynamic usually really pumps out the lumens. Perhaps the problem is the DLP-Link glasses are eating up way more lumens than 3D glasses do on some other projectors? Trying to get my hands around this because with 2000 lumens I thought we'd finally have 3D bright enough for fairly large screens (without having to resort to extreme high gain screens which will result in less than ideal 2D images).

I read the owners manual and no mention of 2D to 3D conversion that I read which is odd because someone says it does it...

Does anyone know if there are "better" DLP-Link glasses than the BenQs for this projector or are the BenQ glasses the way to go?

Has anyone contacted their dealer or BenQ about the lockup problems with the 3D menu?

After watching Monsters vs Aliens 3D on my X30 for about an hour, I shut it down and went back to the W7000.

While the JVC's 3D image was brighter than the W7000's, the JVC ghosts and flickers like crazy in certain scenes on this disc. There's NO ghosting or flickering at all with the W7000.

A good/easy way to test for this is the start of chapter 14 (50:09) - when the gang makes a first stop in Modesto. In the scene - the poles, power lines, trees, and the gang ghost big time and there's a lot of flicker too. This occurred with my 'new' JVC glasses and with my Xpand 104's. This scene is clean with the W7000.

When I first looked at the W7000, the image was too dim for me. I found that raising the contrast from 50 to 70 increased the brightness of the image to an acceptable level.

The glasses are still too heavy for me however. Are there lighter/more comfortable DLP-LINK 3D glasses on the market???

P.S.
Zombie, if you have the time, please post 3D settings with the accent on brightness over blacks and color, for lumens freaks like me (no techie here).

For unlike 99.999% of the posters on this forum, I don't SUFFER from what I have coined as being "D65itis". TIA

Bummer. On the W6000 it is just last menu, then -- up down up down and you are in. I think this was the same for the W5000/10000 as well. Sorry it did not work.

What size sreen are you using? Sorry if you've already stated this, I'm too tired to reread through the thread.

I'm concerned that after the 100 hr mark the bulb will start to dim and the 3d will be even less bright than it is now.

upppp

Technology should be easy and convenient to use, but clearly not here. There are multiple issues occurring simultaneously which vary by user. The issue can change in an instant by simply pressing a button, rebooting or opening or closing applications.
It took about 10 years to finally clear up HDMI 2D issues. Now we enter into the 3D switching era. That is takes 60+ seconds to switch is indication there are loops of conflict occurring with the HDMI logic of the Benq. Note: switching between 2D and 3D can easily take 10 seconds under current technology (it does for my Sharp/Samsung flat panel system).

Since the issue here is poor black level lets just concentrate on it

Black levels and automatic switching between refresh rates has always been a major issue for HTPCs using HDMI. My endless task has been to disable all this unauthorized performance degrading "features" after updating drivers.
What would occur if the video cards dynamic black was enabled then TI’s secretive (set only in the service menu) dynamic black was also enabled? Then the projectors dynamic iris? Then Brilliant Color? Then the wrong gamma? Then the mismatched black levels between the player and the projector?
The average person and even most geeks will not be able to solve this mess of multiple issues occurring simultaneously, and worse they would each report different symptoms, that is assuming they could figure out something coherent enough to write (I feel your pain).

Note1: the root cause of all this dynamic spoofary can be traced back to inadequate NATIVE contrast/black levels.

Note2: it is a fact that TI has become the ever more secretive about DLP technology over the years. Just like on Wall St, its what they don’t state that matters most. Today DLP manufactures can’t even specify DC2, DC3 or DC4. Specifying native contrast is also forbidden. The absurdity continues with the advent of DLP 3D, as even specifying dynamic contrast is also forbidden. Manufactures can only specify an undefined “contrast” (typically 50,000).
From experience, this must be because they are scaling the black level within their DLP processing firmware (that internal secretive dynamic black). This is why the latest brilliant color implementation is so coarse looking. Owners are a bit bewildered and asking where is the setting for the dynamic iris (damn it used to be in the menu!).

Note: dynamic contrast can be electrically and/or mechanically implemented
Note: Video/cinema gamma also drastically effects grey scale

The end result is they are able to fool most of the population most of the time, but not to critical, experienced observers. No matter how many dynamic processing tricks they can pull out of their hat, the end result is poor 2D black level and an increase in picture coarseness with Brilliant Color enabled.

Picture Coarseness from Kranes Acer 9500 3D DLP review
Brilliant color on. Look closely at the top right of the image behind the face of Luke Skywaler, the sky is full of video noise:

By turning off the brilliant color found a good solid base, which is disturbed by any defects:


Note: finally for 3D, the LCD shutter glasses limit system contrast ratio to 1000:1. So the scaling, coarseness, reduced contrast and black level of DLP 3D chips become most obvious with 2D content.

The answer is it went to digital hell

has anybody (hopefully Mark) compared this to the HD3300? I'm on the fence between the W7000 and the HD3300 but would like someones opinion that has seen the two.
Right now I have the W5000 in my theater (as reference).

Thanks in advance

Those 2 quotes are from you joker. Are you sure you even bought a W7000? Having my doubts! I think you came to this thread to crap all over old people and this product.

Otherwise all your posts make zero sense.

Please don't take this the wrong way joker....but WTF are you trying to show us in those shots.

About Glasses. I am REALLY sure the BenQ glasses uses the same tech as the Mitsu glasses which leaves more open time. Jmalto, this may be your problem with brightness, using after market glasses. And yes, for whoever asked there are a ton of aftermarket dlp link glasses that are cheap and light, but this will be at a cost of brightness I believe. My thought is to get a pair of benQ glasses for me and cheap dlp link for guests. Now on the dlp link flash washout issue, on my Acer 5360 I noticed better blacks by going to IR over DLP Link. That flash makes blacks look really gray without the glasses on. Of course the glasses are all black when that flash goes off, but it lights up your room a tiny bit and hence washes out the screen a tiny bit. Probably not enough to worry about. I heard the mitsu was going with a red flash instead of white to help that, perhaps the w7000 is doing that too.
kthejoker20, that is a really high gain screen. I am in the same boat, 120" Vutec Silverstar 6.0 gain. Blacks on a dlp aren't going to be zero. Whatever brightness the blacks are is getting multiplied by 5 with your screen. With the dimmest mode on the W7000 being over 1000 lumens your screen is effectivly giving you a 5k lumen projector. That will hurt indeed. You can use a ND2 filter to bring the brightness (and black levels) down.
So far, only the Panasonic 7000 gets dim enough for us for 2D with around 500 lumens, but bright enough for 3D with 1700 lumens. It also presumably has low lag as Pannys always have.
You did test lag with FI off I assume. Perhaps you turned it on after your initial observation of low lag.

I'm in the shipment of W7000s AVSForum will ship next week, I'm getting a pair of the BenQ glasses but also ordered a pair of Optoma ZD201 glasses that I've read a ton of favorable feedback (ordered from Amazon UK since not sold in U.S.) so I will be able to compare.

I'd still like someone to explain what preset picture mode the W7000 is in while watching 3D. Art's preview made some strange comments about what goes on and the manual says the preset mode can't be changed while in 3D mode so I'm trying to understand what the preset mode is while watching 3D.

I'd also be curious if anyone has reported to ProjectorPeople/AVSForum/BenQ the problem with locking up for minutes in the 3D menu.

Last, if BenQ issues a Firmware update for the 3D menu issue how would it be distributed??

If you think this projector does 2d - 3d conversion, you obviously don't have this projector. I haven't seen any of the things you describe. Misconvergance on a single chip dlp, please..

My main complaint is the switching to 3d material. It's buggy as hell and if they don't do a firmware upgrade very soon, I will probably send mine back. Mine also has a problem syncing when switching inputs on my Elite receiver. It could just be my unit, but I have read other people having a problem as well.

I want to hear what the pro's have to say before I make a decision on keeping it or returning it.

I reported it to Mike @ PP. 3D calibration settings work fine while in 3D mode.

200 with FI on is high vs some of the competition. Some people do like gaming with FI so this is good to know.

Tr,

I am picking up the Acer 9500 to compare to Benq. Almost a grand cheaper and since I am using mine for 3D and gaming only, if the Acer is in the same ball park I may return the Benq until they fix the firmware.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the two.

What is your throw distance? I am at 16' but may move it closer for 3d. The problem is that it is almost to bright for 2d at 16'. I may try a filter for 2d at 13"6", which is where my Acer 5360 is now and it is bright enough for 3d for me.

Note: I have mine setup in my family room with controlled lighting, but light colored walls.

You sneaky little devil, you used a CRT and got accurate results.

50ms is very good.

Where is the link to the new thread?

@Jmalto
I'm waiting for your comparison, we'll see how the cheaper ACER Hold ups, if your RBE sensitive you'll probably prefer the Benq too much, but maybe not, are you RBE sensitive?

....

Cool! Curious to see the comparison.

50 ms is not good...

It is compared to the other $3000 projectors we've seen.

The Epson 5010 was like what, 80ms, not sure what the Panny 7000 was (Panny was probably the lowest). JVC @ 80ms as well, some of the others were over 100ms :P

There are a lot of gamers that use the Mits hc4000 (30ms to 35ms lag), I find it hard to believe that 15-20ms is going to make much difference. The Benq w1200 was like 100ms lag, lol...

I have a Viewsonic Pro8200 DLP for gaming that has 20ms lag so I've heard, never tested the lag numbers myself though. I see no difference in games for lag between this and the JVC, if I played FPS I MIGHT be able to tell. I know a serious gamer might be able to tell, or maybe some casual FPS gamers, other than that the motion blur is more of an issue than the lag (which DLP will win in super fast motion panning like you do in FPS).

Enough I notice it every now and then on the Benq. The Acer 5360 drove me nuts which is why I went on a 720p dlp 3d projector hunt for awhile and purchased literally 6 or 7 different models.

Whomever said they were getting the optoma glasses off amazon, those are the ones I have I believe which are the same as the Viewsonic models. You can see a white glare in the right lense that can be distracting unless you tilt your head down some.

That was me but do you have ZD201 or ZD101? I ordered ZD201 which have consistent favorable reviews, ZD101 which is older version not so much...

From Art's W7000 review at ProjectorReviews.com (preproduction W7000), can anyone try this with a production W7000 projector and report back if the color temp is Native when in 3D (report if it's Native when Brilliant Color is turned on and off)?

When the W7000 was setup next to the Epson 5010 in 3D, as reported above, it wasn’t quite as bright, but very close. Now I should have been running with Brilliant Color on, as I was looking for max lumens. Well, I got that wrong, and I think it relates to some work not yet done on this .22 firmware.

When in 3D with BC On, the projector seems to be in a Warm or Normal Color Temp modes – basically, based on our calibrated best. When I went to the Color Temp settings, though and tried to change to other Color Temps, I could change it from Normal to Warm, Cool and Native, but while the words changed, the picture did not. That’s right, essentially, in 3D on this projector, the Color Temp looks good, but we can’t get to the one really bright mode – Native.

But:

Turn Brilliant Color to OFF, and strangely, now 3D drops into the Native Color Temp mode, and brightness goes up.

PS. Was watching a replay of the old Uconn vs. Oklahoma BCS Tostidos Bowl in 3D on ESPN 3D, few a few minutes. Turning off BC, really made a difference.

I can place this projector no futher than 11' 4" from my scope screen. I use the zoom method so I'm concerned that the BenQ will not work for me. My 2.40:1 screen measures 40"x96" so my 16x9 image is about 72" wide. I was told by a guy in AV Science sales and he said the BenQ would work for me. Do you guys think it would really fill my scope screen when zoomed out? I only ask because the BenQ's throw is longer than my old RS2 clone.

Thanks,
Tom

ProjectorCentral.com's calculator says it won't work if the calculator is correct: http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ...ulator-pro.htm It says 13' is the minimum throw for a 40" x 96" 2.4:1 image. There is also http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/