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Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 3379
12/26/11 at 7:14am
It has been suggested on the shoot out thread that a N2 filter should be used in conjunction with a HP screen in other to improve blacks. Anyone going to try this?
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post #152 of 3379
12/26/11 at 7:47am
I suggested using a ND2 filter to improve the blacks (slang for what you are improving) and we did so during the shoot out. However, I said nothing about using a HP screen in conjunction with a ND2 filter to improve the blacks. A high power screen won't improve tjhe black ref value. Screen gain and size among other things including throw have to be considered in terms of your projector and its performance. With a small size HP, higher than a ND2 could be required. But with traditional screens in the say 35 to 45 sq ft area, and traditional gains of say 1.0 to 1.3, a ND2 should nicely improve the blacks. It did with a 2.8 of about 80 sq ft, which would translate to being a 40 sq ft at 1.4 which to me is close enough to draw general guidelines based on some viewing observations..

I am going to put the BenQ up on my 1.3 gain 36 sq ft studeotec and I expect almost identical results with the multiplier screen gain divided by screen area being .0356 in Zombie's case and .036 in mine. Throw ratio would be about the same.

Color shifts because of the screen materials will of course be different as well a sharpness close up differences also due to screen mateial.
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post #153 of 3379
12/26/11 at 8:13am
Hi Mark

Let us know how the W7000 with the ND2 filter compares to your Vango for blacks/shadow details, thanks that will be interesting to know.

I'm using a Hurley 1.5 gain 96" diag, and I still would like to have the W7000 on my list but only if the blacks are there.
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post #154 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:09am
My Vango is on loan to Tom Huffman who is using it to calibrate his Dispay 3 Pros for LED front projectionand he iods out of town. Without the ND2 filter on he BenQ, the Vango blacks are much better. Partially due to a better, higher contrast DLP chip being used and lower light out with the Vango. I don't know how comparing the Benq with ND2 would compare.
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post #155 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:27am
Hi Mark,

Okay let me ask you how the Vango blacks/ shadow details compare to the RS45 or the HW30?
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post #156 of 3379
12/26/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

ProjectorCentral.com's calculator says it won't work if the calculator is correct: http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ...ulator-pro.htm It says 13' is the minimum throw for a 40" x 96" 2.4:1 image. There is also http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

Thanks for the help.

I guess that AV Science sales guy would have provided me with a proper answer to this question. Thank GOD I didn't order it to later find out it wouldn't work in my small room.

So much for 3D at this time. The JVC's would work for me but I want very good 3D.


Tom
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post #157 of 3379
12/26/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The only issue I see with my calc's number are the w7000's 3D mode, I find it odd that a projector that peaks at 2000 lumens does only 900 lumens in 3D mode, that is insanity. Sounds like a mistake Benq made in the firmware.

This was my question as well, how in the world can the BenQ not be bright in 3D with 2000 lumens to work with? Any owners contacting BenQ asking this question?
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post #158 of 3379
12/26/11 at 1:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

This was my question as well, how in the world can the BenQ not be bright in 3D with 2000 lumens to work with? Any owners contacting BenQ asking this question?

I guess I was surprised not to see a big drop from 2D to 3D like I saw with the Acer 5360 DLP. That projector went from 1200 lumens in a close to D65 mode (can't really adjust it) and ~800 lumens in 3D mode.

I generally read over the advertised specs for max lumens, they are usually some torch mode with off colors, etc. It would be great if they all agreed to advertised their D65 performance.
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post #159 of 3379
12/26/11 at 2:10pm
Well the Epson 5010's best mode is 700 lumens in lamp high and 1500 lumens for dynamic mode in 3D...

I was hoping the w7000 could do 1400, but oh well. I am betting they are going to make an updated color table in the firmware, Art is already talking to them about only having one selected mode I think.

A projector with 2000 lumens should not be doing 890 lumens in 3D mode regardless of how you slice it. It could have one more accurate mode for people picky about color in 3D, but it is much wiser to change at least one mode to "BRIGHT 3D" and pump up the lumens. I also wonder if it's possible to change the 3D color table in the service menu.
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post #160 of 3379
12/26/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

Thanks for the help.

I guess that AV Science sales guy would have provided me with a proper answer to this question. Thank GOD I didn't order it to later find out it wouldn't work in my small room.

So much for 3D at this time. The JVC's would work for me but I want very good 3D.

3D wise the Sony is a very good performer with only a little ghosting, not none as in the Bennq but hardly enough to be even noticeable for most stuff.


Tom

Tom . The math is real simple when you are doing a zoom. Consider your 2.40 aspect ratio screen that is 96 inches wide to be a 54 by 96 inch screen. The minimum throw that the projector can fill that 54 x 96 inch screen is 1.63 (the minimum throw ratio for the BenQ) x 96 which equals about 156.04 inches or a smidge over 13 ft. The black bars would be off your real screen which is only 40 inches tall, not 54. So if you place your projector at 11ft 4 inches, you can not make a wide enough image. In fact 83.4 inches wide would be it for the 2.4 with the BenQ.

Now lets try it with a Sony or JVC which both have minimum throws or around 1.4 for quick cal purposes. At 1.4 times 96 inches, you would get 134.4 inches, so your throw of 136 inches would work. Hope this helps.
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post #161 of 3379
12/26/11 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

From Art's W7000 review at ProjectorReviews.com (preproduction W7000), can anyone try this with a production W7000 projector and report back if the color temp is Native when in 3D (report if it's Native when Brilliant Color is turned on and off)?

When the W7000 was setup next to the Epson 5010 in 3D, as reported above, it wasn't quite as bright, but very close. Now I should have been running with Brilliant Color on, as I was looking for max lumens. Well, I got that wrong, and I think it relates to some work not yet done on this .22 firmware.

When in 3D with BC On, the projector seems to be in a Warm or Normal Color Temp modes - basically, based on our calibrated best. When I went to the Color Temp settings, though and tried to change to other Color Temps, I could change it from Normal to Warm, Cool and Native, but while the words changed, the picture did not. That's right, essentially, in 3D on this projector, the Color Temp looks good, but we can't get to the one really bright mode - Native.

But:

Turn Brilliant Color to OFF, and strangely, now 3D drops into the Native Color Temp mode, and brightness goes up.

PS. Was watching a replay of the old Uconn vs. Oklahoma BCS Tostidos Bowl in 3D on ESPN 3D, few a few minutes. Turning off BC, really made a difference.

I have been testing the W7000 for a couple of days next to a Epson 3010 and 5010. The W7000 is at firmware level 1.0 and the 3D/BC bug Art described is fixed now. In 3D mode, the BC setting and color temp setting can be changed although there's no major change in brightness. There is no major brightness drop off between "standard" mode and 3D mode. Both modes are bright, but not quite as bright as the 3010/5010.
Personally I have no major complaints about the black levels. They are somewhere between the 3010 and 5010 which is good enough for me. I am using a HCHP screen which probably helps with the blacks also (120"). However, even at firmware version 1.0 this projector still behaves like an early lab prototype rather than a finished product. Switching between HDMI screen resolutions in 2D or switching into 3D or between 3D modes takes forever, if it works at all. Watching a blueray player in 3D works OK but for anything else the projector is basically unusable (e.g. 3D HTPC, Mac, 3D Camera, 3D STB etc). The Epsons support all these devices without any problems and can switched between them in a few seconds. Hopefully the W7000 will be fixed in firmware updates but I don't know how long that's going to take or whether the firmware is user upgradable.
The 3D picture (if you have the patience) is extremely stable on the W7000 and better in that regard than the Epson. The Epson is very slightly brighter in 3D mode but not by much.
The W7000 is also slightly sharper than the Epson with richer color.
However, unless all these bugs are fixed, the W7000 is a piece of junk. It's certainly not fit to be sold.
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post #162 of 3379
12/26/11 at 3:52pm
Benq is notorious for providing firmware updates to solve issues.

Given the w7000 is 2000 lumens, it should have at least one mode that is brighter in 3D then it's 2D-D65 mode, most projectors have this, or at least let you change the 3D settings. Not having this I consider it an issue, so does Art @ pjreviews.com. That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker for those that are getting enough lumens out of it, but it doesn't make sense to have a projector that is capable of such higher brightness to drop 10% in 3D mode from 2D-D65. 10% may not be visible by eye (it's not really), but that is no reason to produce 900 lumens in a 3D mode for a 2000 lumen projector. Should be able to do at least 1300.

It sounds like they need a few firmware updates to resolve this stuff. I wonder if the HDMI switching issue can be tempered with a direct connect instead of an HDMI switch?
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post #163 of 3379
12/26/11 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol2 View Post

I have been testing the W7000 for a couple of days next to a Epson 3010 and 5010. The W7000 is at firmware level 1.0 and the 3D/BC bug Art described is fixed now. In 3D mode, the BC setting and color temp setting can be changed although there's no major change in brightness. There is no major brightness drop off between "standard" mode and 3D mode. Both modes are bright, but not quite as bright as the 3010/5010.
Personally I have no major complaints about the black levels. They are somewhere between the 3010 and 5010 which is good enough for me. I am using a HCHP screen which probably helps with the blacks also (120"). However, even at firmware version 1.0 this projector still behaves like an early lab prototype rather than a finished product. Switching between HDMI screen resolutions in 2D or switching into 3D or between 3D modes takes forever, if it works at all. Watching a blueray player in 3D works OK but for anything else the projector is basically unusable (e.g. 3D HTPC, Mac, 3D Camera, 3D STB etc). The Epsons support all these devices without any problems and can switched between them in a few seconds. Hopefully the W7000 will be fixed in firmware updates but I don't know how long that's going to take or whether the firmware is user upgradable.
The 3D picture (if you have the patience) is extremely stable on the W7000 and better in that regard than the Epson. The Epson is very slightly brighter in 3D mode but not by much.
The W7000 is also slightly sharper than the Epson with richer color.
However, unless all these bugs are fixed, the W7000 is a piece of junk. It's certainly not fit to be sold.

And how good is 3D on the Epson 5010 compared to the Benq (ghosting in particular)?
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post #164 of 3379
12/26/11 at 4:09pm
For any W6000 owners who upgraded to W7000 who have done firmware update on W6000 can you explain firmware upgrade process re: where sent, turnaround times, does BenQ pay return shipping, etc.?
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post #165 of 3379
12/26/11 at 4:23pm
It really takes time to get a handle on a new projector. Zombie I believe alsways kept the BC on and mostly tested in high lamp mode with the DI (DB) engaged. We couldn't get into the service menu and we didn't have a lot of time to spend varying a variety of factors. The main objective was to operate the three projectors under test under the same operating parameters. I will have quite some time to play more with the BenQ. Out software version is 1.0.

Can someone tell me how to access the service menu. On the info screen, going up dowm up down enter didn't do anything. And once you get in, what are the options for screwing with DB?
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post #166 of 3379
12/26/11 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

And how good is 3D on the Epson 5010 compared to the Benq (ghosting in particular)?

The 3D on the W7000 (if you can get it into 3D mode) is better imo. I don't see any ghosting on either projector and the brightness is very similar. But 3D on the 5010 still feels like a strained "effect" to me, whereas the experience on the W7000 is visually effortless...like looking at a solid 3D world and more enjoyable consequently. The FI probably helps on the W7000 also.
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post #167 of 3379
12/26/11 at 5:35pm
Pretty much what all of us have suspected, that no matter how fast these LCD and LCOS panels were this year, the 3D would still be better on DLP.

They may close the gap more next year, we'll see...
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post #168 of 3379
12/26/11 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Tom . The math is real simple when you are doing a zoom. Consider your 2.40 aspect ratio screen that is 96 inches wide to be a 54 by 96 inch screen. The minimum throw that the projector can fill that 54 x 96 inch screen is 1.63 (the minimum throw ratio for the BenQ) x 96 which equals about 156.04 inches or a smidge over 13 ft. The black bars would be off your real screen which is only 40 inches tall, not 54. So if you place your projector at 11ft 4 inches, you can not make a wide enough image. In fact 83.4 inches wide would be it for the 2.4 with the BenQ.

Now lets try it with a Sony or JVC which both have minimum throws or around 1.4 for quick cal purposes. At 1.4 times 96 inches, you would get 134.4 inches, so your throw of 136 inches would work. Hope this helps.

Thanks Mark

I am pretty depressed about this. I really wanted DLP for 3D.

Isn't the Sony's throw 1.6 though?

Tom
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post #169 of 3379
12/26/11 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol2 View Post

The Epsons support all these devices without any problems and can switched between them in a few seconds. Hopefully the W7000 will be fixed in firmware updates but I don't know how long that's going to take or whether the firmware is user upgradable.
The 3D picture (if you have the patience) is extremely stable on the W7000 and better in that regard than the Epson. The Epson is very slightly brighter in 3D mode but not by much.
The W7000 is also slightly sharper than the Epson with richer color.
However, unless all these bugs are fixed, the W7000 is a piece of junk. It's certainly not fit to be sold.

Thanks for those observations which sound very encouraging except the last part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

For any W6000 owners who upgraded to W7000 who have done firmware update on W6000 can you explain firmware upgrade process re: where sent, turnaround times, does BenQ pay return shipping, etc.?

And hence I must say x2 here. User FW update should be a no brainer these days. Shame if it is not and probably a deal killer for me. It is almost 2012 and we still have CEMs making products without user updatable FW.
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post #170 of 3379
12/26/11 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

For any W6000 owners who upgraded to W7000 who have done firmware update on W6000 can you explain firmware upgrade process re: where sent, turnaround times, does BenQ pay return shipping, etc.?

Not a w6000 owner but I'd wait to see what BenQ does about the bugs on the w7000. I don't want to say the sky is falling with this unit but I had it lock up on me completely tonight like it was doing on Art switching from 3D mode back to 2D. I don't know about everyone else but I won't even bother putting my xbox 360 into 3D mode because of how long it takes to get the BenQ set up.

If they can fix the bugs in the current firmware (which I am sure they will) I think this unit will make a great 3D unit for those looking for a dual setup.

I've decided to pack mine up for a return so I can compare it against the Acer 9500 and make a decision on which I want to keep so hopefully by then a new firmware update will be released.
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post #171 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

Isn't the Sony's throw 1.6 though?

Tom

Udsing the throw charts in the Sony manual, for example with a 100 D 1.78 screen and converting the minimum throw distance from mm to inches and then dividing the width in inches of a 100" D screen which is 87 inches, the throw number comes out a little belowe 1.4, maybe 1.37 or so, using 1.4 is safe and means it will work in your situation. The zoom range is enough to allow placement there and the zooming out to bring your 2.4 size down (width 96 inches) to a 1.78 size (width 71.2 inches).
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post #172 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Not a w6000 owner but I'd wait to see what BenQ does about the bugs on the w7000. I don't want to say the sky is falling with this unit but I had it lock up on me completely tonight like it was doing on Art switching from 3D mode back to 2D. I don't know about everyone else but I won't even bother putting my xbox 360 into 3D mode because of how long it takes to get the BenQ set up.

If they can fix the bugs in the current firmware (which I am sure they will) I think this unit will make a great 3D unit for those looking for a dual setup.

I've decided to pack mine up for a return so I can compare it against the Acer 9500 and make a decision on which I want to keep so hopefully by then a new firmware update will be released.

Thanks for the advice jmalto, I just e-mailed Mark at AVS and told him NOT to ship my W7000 Wednesday (I'm in the block of W7000s shipping Wednesday) I will wait until I can be guaranteed a unit with new firmware before I buy. From the research I did on the internet it appears BenQ's policy for projector firmware updates is owner pays shipping to AND from BenQ to get the Firmware updated. That would mean a lot of $$ for shipping and insurance to/from so I will wait... If the W7000 situation turns into a nightmare I will likely buy the Sony HW30. I've never owned a DLP projector and would like to give one a try is why I'm interested in the W7000 (in addition to ghost free 3D and bright image, I have a CIH setup, large screen). Art at ProjectorReviews.com made a comment about contacting BenQ about them doing a firmware update to provide an option for a brighter 3D mode than what currently exists so that is another reason to wait. Sounds like the W7000 was released prematurely.
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post #173 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:14pm
Tonight I watched the NFL Mondaynight game on the BenQ. It worked flawlessly with a sharp punching image' I shut BC off and switched to low lamp. In high lamp, the pivcture was way too bright on my 1.3 gain 110" D screen (1.78). I left DB on. The blacks on the New Orleans uniforms were deeply black. No motion artifacts with 720p native ESPN in.

Did I mention how sharp the image wasand how bright it was?

I didn't add the ND2 filter because it just didn't need it for this type of program content. Tomorrow night I will try some Bluray films in both 2D and 3D.

I am not a gamer and simply have a Bluray player for 2D and 3D. I like this machine. Some of the black level issues I observed at Zombie's may have been due to having BC on. More tomorrow.
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post #174 of 3379
12/26/11 at 10:55pm
I would never assume that a software/firmware update will fix and issue like this, as it could take a board revision.
What I can't figure out is BenQ has been in the projector business for several years: these issues should not be occurring. Some VP obviously cut corners (to increase his bonus).

The logic over which projector to buy is more difficult this year than ever before, but at least excellent 3D is available. However one must purchase two projectors. For 3D it looks like the less expensive Acer 9500 has all the bells and whistles, except for color correction. Either that or wait for BenQ to release an updated version.

Ironically paying more for DLP 3D this year brings more issues, with the $3K Mitsubishi 7800 having glasses and image softness issues.

Ol2, your observation that frame interpolation (FI) may make 3D viewing less fatiguing is significant. Are there any highly rated 3D projectors or displays without FI?

Note: I always use FI only my 70" Sharp 3D flat panel and also find it necessary for lowered fatigue. Heck I use moderate FI for 2D too, as it restores what we see in real-life.

Note2: Hollywood has finally dumped cellulite film. It will be obsolete within two years as digital cameras are cleaner. With less artifacts, FI will dominate.
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post #175 of 3379
12/27/11 at 5:11am
I understand it is impossible to properly calibrate using someone else's settings...but can someone let me know their settings for bringing the red and blue down please.
Also, I am unable to get the third black bar visible while setting brightness using the DVE test disc. Im guessing this has something to do with the projectors black level weakness.
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post #176 of 3379
12/27/11 at 5:16am
Any owners near Milwaukee, WI?
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post #177 of 3379
12/27/11 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelscott73 View Post

I understand it is impossible to properly calibrate using someone else's settings...but can someone let me know their settings for bringing the red and blue down please.
Also, I am unable to get the third black bar visible while setting brightness using the DVE test disc. Im guessing this has something to do with the projectors black level weakness.

Failed to mention that even with the colors off a bit I am so far satisfied. I watched the new transformers and wow...razor sharp with a pop you have to see to believe. Perfect disc to show the projectors strenghts.
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post #178 of 3379
12/27/11 at 12:49pm
The more I read these posts the more confused I get. It seems there are very few complaints about the 3D but the reviews on the 2D are all over the place. In addition now there might be possible firmware quirks. Being a previous BenQ owner I can attest to what a PITA it is to get the firmware upgraded. It's unacceptable particularly considering their history on issuing fixes.

Back to 2D, can anyone comment on RBE? How about the DI implemantation? Is there much noise with BC on? Is there noise in the image at all? Finally can we get a consensus on blacklevel? Currently this is what I've gathered:

Black levels are bad on high power screens with BC enabled.
Black levels fall between the Epson 3010 and 5010

Thanks.
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post #179 of 3379
12/27/11 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceXX View Post

Being a previous BenQ owner I can attest to what a PITA it is to get the firmware upgraded. It's unacceptable particularly considering their history on issuing fixes.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by PITA (e.g., turnaround times, any other issues) and what you mean by "their history on issuing fixes"?
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post #180 of 3379
12/27/11 at 2:28pm
I have an old BenQ 8720 projector and had one problem with the hdcp hdmi that needed fixing. It was under the warantee time. All I had to do was box it up and mail it to Benq. Benq fixed it and mailed it back to me all in under 2 weeks time total. I would reccomend keeping the box and packaging if Benq still requires shipping the entire projector for fixing or updating. But I was very impressed with Benq support on the whole matter. I was only out the price of mailing the projector to Benq.
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