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Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 97

post #2881 of 3365
1/26/13 at 8:46am
Thanks for the tips Coderguy. I am going to run the auto cal on the 7000 at some point soon here. Just curious, but why leave brilliant color off?
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post #2882 of 3365
1/26/13 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

That is the gray-scale adjustments, RGB gain is the same as RGB High end, and is basically like a contrast control for each color's gray-scale (not to be confused with the Gain controls in the Color Management System - CMS). The RGB Offset is the same as RGB Low. I would prefer if these MFR's would just call it Grayscale High and Grayscale LOW, would be less confusing since the gamut also has a gain setting (which is different).

You also need to calibrate the gamut. However, before doing any of this stuff, I recommend performing the below actions first:
Generally the first thing to do before calibrating is to set the GAMMA Preset to 2.2, setup the manual IRIS if needed (if your image is too bright or too dark overall), and then using the pluge and ramp patterns, get contrast and brightness setup correctly. Also make sure brilliant color is OFF.

Then start the gray-scale calibration, but take the 100 white IRE, 80 IRE, 60 IRE, and 40 IRE measurement first before trying to make corrective adjustments. I would then rely on the 60-80 IRE measurement for the first adjustments to gray-scale, get this flat as possible, then go to the 30-50 IRE and get that as flat as possible, and go back and forth until they are all pretty flat and accurate.

Now go to the gamut calibration and do the 75% patterns from the AVS Rec709 disk. Do the white point readings first though (100 IRE at least and 75 IRE). Next, spend time on getting each color within the proper point on the CIE chart by adjusting the settings inside Color Management (Hue, Gain, Saturation). I adjust HUE first, but the order does not really matter all that much. Then do saturation and gain until it is as accurate as possible. Then after you just calibrated the gamut, go back to the gray-scale patterns on the AVS disk and use the RGB High/Low to re-calibrate them, then after that, come back to the gamut again. You can play ping pong as long as you want depending on how accurate you want to get it.

My dE's were all under 2 when I was done I believe, one might have been near 3, but most at 2 or less.

Thanks for the tips.

One difference I find is that you are asking to set the contrast using the patterns instead of a target ftl reading. I had gone with guide and started with ftl of 22, but I think the image is too bright, so I'll try your way next.

Also In the first run I ended up with gamma around 2 with preset at 2.2. I then started with preset of of 2.4 and ended up around 2.2. I am guessing that it was due to the .8 gain screen I am using?
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post #2883 of 3365
1/26/13 at 12:39pm
One thing I have recently noticed, is the blacks are getting better as the bulb ages. I have 150 hours on the bulb and it definitely looks better now than it did when I first installed it. I think it will be a very well aging projector.
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post #2884 of 3365
1/26/13 at 10:34pm

I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this as if it's normal I won't bother getting a replacement. Installing a W7000 (for someone) I noticed when using all of the downward lens shift the image in the lower right hand corner (table mount) has a darker shade to it. It looks like a quarter circle (fairly large diameter on a 120 inch screen - 18"?) that is slightly darker. This is with the lens shift pointed straight down at 6 o' clock. I have moved the projector around to confirm it's not the screen and it appears to be simply a limitation of the lens/lens shift. If you move the image up via the lens shift (a couple of feet) it completely goes away. If you move the projector (itself) the dark area moves with it.

 

Funny thing is we had a couple of W6000s mounted in there for a month or so a long time ago using the same lens shift and I don't remember the issue... could have overlooked it but I doubt it. That's why I'm wondering if it's normal.

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post #2885 of 3365
1/27/13 at 9:18am
Lens shift always moves the light path away from the sweet spot of the lens. That's why you want to avoid using too much of it if possible.
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post #2886 of 3365
1/27/13 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Lens shift always moves the light path away from the sweet spot of the lens. That's why you want to avoid using too much of it if possible.

 

Thanks... but in this case I'm talking about a clear defect where the image isn't projected properly not mere chromatic aberration. Which I also tested by using hardly any lens shift and it was virtually the same.


Edited by Charles R - 1/27/13 at 11:30am
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post #2887 of 3365
1/27/13 at 10:27am
Well, my 2nd unit started showing signs of Dynamic Black Iris failure. Fortunately, on the 2nd unit if I turn DB off, the picture is fine. Guess I'll keep this one and just leave DB off from now on.
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post #2888 of 3365
1/27/13 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeav View Post

Thanks for the tips.
One difference I find is that you are asking to set the contrast using the patterns instead of a target ftl reading. I had gone with guide and started with ftl of 22, but I think the image is too bright, so I'll try your way next.

Well as noted before, I don't leave my settings at an EXACT reference level calibration all the time, what I do is first make one calibration that has everything according to the meter (hence a "perfect" calibration), and store that in a preset. Then I adjust the second preset slightly by adding a bit of blue (not too much) and going slightly away from D65. I am not sure how exactly how much to go away from D65 for using blue to mediate skin tone error in the source, as it varies on every source, so at best it's voodoo but it still helps for my personal preferences. For my situation, I am also crushing the VL 17 sometimes because I adjust brightness and gamma a little darker than I should intentionally for some movies, but on DLP's with low native on/off, I prefer to crush blacks slightly on certain content and lose some detail in exchange for the perception of slightly better blacks. Just don't over do it.

The reason I prefer a slightly cooler than D65 image for one of my presets because a little extra blue in the gray-scale tends to help hide skin tone errors that exist in the source (cameras that used bad lighting when filming). A perfect reference level D65 calibration does look better on reference level content, but if you average films across all viewing content on how the skin tones look, a tiny bit cooler image on average can help. I have become so sensitive to the unwanted color that exists in films and the bad skin tones, that I try to negate this a little. The "director's intent" in some films is truly awful now-a-days, these guys took one too many hits of an illegal substance.
Edited by coderguy - 1/29/13 at 2:22am
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post #2889 of 3365
1/27/13 at 9:41pm
@coderguy... did you get a chance to vary the positioning and iris with CR measurements this weekend?
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post #2890 of 3365
1/27/13 at 10:03pm
Yes, but I am hesitant to post my results because I need to get another light meter in here to test it first.
I will PM them to you.

Edit:
I need to A/B the Universe series and the game X3: Albion Prelude/ Terran conflict between the VS and the Benq again, this game has tremendously rich black scenes. It's kind of weird but the Benq seems to have a better intrascene ramp than some projectors even though it has such low On/Off. When I put enough stars on the screen, the blacks seem to be improving faster than the Viewsonic, the JVC though still creams these two in blacks.
Edited by coderguy - 1/27/13 at 10:13pm
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post #2891 of 3365
1/28/13 at 5:45pm
Hey All,

Wanted some screen advice for the 7000...I have a chance to get a good deal on an elite Cinegray 106" screen. I know it tends to make the image a bit darker but since the BenQ is so bright, would it be a good combo?
Room is 95% light controlled basement. Throw will be about 15 ft and seating distance is about 10ft.
What do most of you BenQ owners use? Gray or white screens? What is a good gain amount for such a bright projector?
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post #2892 of 3365
1/28/13 at 5:52pm
I would never buy anything but an HP screen with this projector, it's just screaming for it with the center-based offset + the manual IRIS which lets you control brightness. Of course if someone wants dimmer 3D and to buy new lamps sooner, then that's their right.

It will never be too bright, as I said before you can use a 2.0 gain 60" screen and it still isn't too bright, the IRIS can be clamped down completely.
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post #2893 of 3365
1/28/13 at 6:25pm
Thanks Coder...from what you said before, I figured if I just let the DI stay enabled then the gray screen would compensate for the brightness I would be getting and maybe get some better blacks....but if you say that a 2.0 gain screen would work best, maybe I will pass of the Cinegray.
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post #2894 of 3365
1/28/13 at 8:47pm
You can do that, but I'd rather lose the DI ability at first and have a brighter projector longer. Lamps are like gas, it's not as much money as it seems, but it's still a drag to waste the money when you don't have to.
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post #2895 of 3365
1/29/13 at 2:33pm
Well...throwing from 15ft away what kind of brightness do you think I can get with the Cinegray (0.8 gain) The Cinewhite is only 1.1 so I was not sure how big a difference that would make.
A forum member is selling a 106inch Cinegray for a great deal so I would like to go with that unless the image would be terrible...

Anyone else using the BenQ with a low gain screen??
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post #2896 of 3365
1/29/13 at 3:53pm
You can definitely get away with it, and 3D will still be relatively bright, and 2d more than bright enough. I just prefer it as bright as possible.
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post #2897 of 3365
1/29/13 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarithers View Post

Well...throwing from 15ft away what kind of brightness do you think I can get with the Cinegray (0.8 gain) The Cinewhite is only 1.1 so I was not sure how big a difference that would make.
A forum member is selling a 106inch Cinegray for a great deal so I would like to go with that unless the image would be terrible...

Anyone else using the BenQ with a low gain screen??

I use it with 100" Black Diamond 0.8 gain screen from about 14.5 feet and its more than enough bright even on low lamp.
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post #2898 of 3365
1/30/13 at 12:27am
Finaly sold my Benq W7000, I really gave 3D a good shot, and although it was cool for awhile, it got the better of me after a few months. 3 things that have begun to really annoy me about 3D:

Wearing glasses, cleaning, dust, scratches on the lens, batteries, tints etc etc.
The attention is drawn away from the sound and the width of the screen somewhat dimishes, a more narrow experience develops.
And as good as the W7000 is, 3D still looks a bit fake compared to 2D.


This became apparent after rewatching a lot of my 3D movies in 2D again, I was like WOW, I think I prefer 2D. LOL

Glasses free 3D, that I could give a go.

Farewell W7000, hello JVC X30 blacks.
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post #2899 of 3365
1/30/13 at 2:35am
Hopefully 3D will get better in the future, the animated stuff is pretty cool. I've been trying 3D gaming some and I just can't do it, the only game I can take in 3D is a flight simulator or x3:Terran Conflict, though I don't play games that often anyhow. I also like the scenery stuff in 3D and some of the space stuff, you just can't watch it every day or it gets old.
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post #2900 of 3365
1/30/13 at 4:02am
What is the difference between the Benw w7000+ and the w7000? I can only find the w7000+ for sale in Australia, and Benq no longer has an active listing for the w7000+.
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post #2901 of 3365
1/30/13 at 4:49am
Well at least some others see 3D like I do. It's kinda cool for a little while, but not how I want to watch TV/movies on a regular basis. Or even an entire movie really. I'm tired of it after 30min or so. Hopefully the industry will move toward real image enhancing features like 4k, etc...
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post #2902 of 3365
1/30/13 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by malichai View Post

What is the difference between the Benw w7000+ and the w7000?

 

Per se I don't believe there is any difference... the same model under difference name during its production run. Specs and performance identical... whether there are any manufacturing differences who knows. I think it's safe to say one isn't inherently better than the other.

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post #2903 of 3365
1/30/13 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would never buy anything but an HP screen with this projector, it's just screaming for it with the center-based offset + the manual IRIS which lets you control brightness. Of course if someone wants dimmer 3D and to buy new lamps sooner, then that's their right.

It will never be too bright, as I said before you can use a 2.0 gain 60" screen and it still isn't too bright, the IRIS can be clamped down completely.

Yea, this is only a good idea if you are going to manually control the iris (or use a very large screen). Otherwise it can end up too bright if you use the DI mode. I tried my 106" HP screen with my W6k (which isn't as bright as the W7k) and it was crazy bright in a fully darkened room.
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post #2904 of 3365
1/30/13 at 7:50am
Since the setting holds on the w7000, it's set it once and forget it. You do lose the DI functionality, but this is a small price to pay IMHO for brighter 3D and a brighter 2D image over the long-term.
Of course this is more important for us heavy projector users to curtail losing too many lumens too fast in the first 500-1000 hours.
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post #2905 of 3365
1/30/13 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post

Otherwise it can end up too bright if you use the DI mode. I tried my 106" HP screen with my W6k (which isn't as bright as the W7k) and it was crazy bright in a fully darkened room.

 

I agree. I installed a few W6000s and just recently a W7000 and I was looking for ways to make them less bright. Throw in the less than stellar black and a dim screen is a very good choice for many.

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post #2906 of 3365
1/30/13 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I agree. I installed a few W6000s and just recently a W7000 and I was looking for ways to make them less bright. Throw in the less than stellar black and a dim screen is a very good choice for many.

This is assuming you want to use the DI though. If like me you find the DI distracting and can see it pumping away and will be shutting it off anyway, you can tailor the brightness on the 6000/7000 by adjusting the iris in the service menu as Coder has mentioned. I still need to track down that great post by Coderguy on how exactly to tweak the iris as I still have not messed with this, but plan to next time I watch 2d on the 7000 (which is not much).
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post #2907 of 3365
1/30/13 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


This is assuming you want to use the DI though.

 

Not really. Even with it turned off I had to go into the service menu to reduce the light output... dramatically. Sure in some living rooms the brighter the better... in other rooms that isn't the case therefore the brightest screen available isn't required... there are many other factors. It's not like it's going to get too dark later on... even if it did I'll be giving up a little to gain a little or more... I noticed the image noise (greatly) when the W6000 was too bright. With the W7000 I had to go down to 6 (from the default of 13) to tame the image. Plenty left to recover as the lamp dims.

 

Far too many room configurations and preferences to make a blanket statement is what I'm saying... saying by default at some point the projector will get too dim and as such should override everything else.


Edited by Charles R - 1/30/13 at 10:26am
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post #2908 of 3365
1/30/13 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Not really. Even with it turned off I had to go into the service menu to reduce the light output... dramatically. Sure in some living rooms the brighter the better... in the rooms that isn't the case and if the screen can help lower the black level I'm all for it. It's not like it's going to get too dark later on... even if it did I'll be giving up a little to gain a little or more... I noticed the image noise (greatly) when the W6000 was too bright. With the W7000 I had to go down to 6 (from the default of 13) to tame the image. Plenty left to recover as the lamp dims.

Far too many room configurations and preferences to make a blanket statement is what I'm saying...

My point was that a dim screen would be a good choice if you choose to use the DI since you cant use it as a manual iris at that point to tame brightness (right?). If you are going to shut off the DI anyway though assuming you find it distracting, you could go with either a dim or high gain screen since you can now adjust the iris in the service menu.

I agree with you that the projector is VERY bright and too bright in my particular setup right now as a matter of fact. I am in a cave of a room with a HP screen on top of it and the brightness is a bit uncomfortable in its current default iris setting for 2d (love all the brightness for 3d though). Glad we can go into the service menu and lower it by adjusting the iris, otherwise I would need to find some sort of ND filter for what little 2d I watch.
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post #2909 of 3365
1/30/13 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


My point was that a dim screen would be a good choice if you choose to use the DI since you cant use it as a manual iris at that point to tame brightness (right?).

 

I don't disagree with the theory. My only point (badly made) is I don't feel in all cases the projector will become too dark... hence you may not need to the brightest screen with it and others may work as well or better. I was only referencing the post... x screen is the only one I would use/purchase...

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post #2910 of 3365
1/30/13 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I don't disagree with the theory. My only point (badly made) is I don't feel in all cases the projector will become too dark... hence you may not need to the brightest screen with it and others may work as well or better. I was only referencing the post... x screen is the only one I would use/purchase...

Gotcha, sorry my bad! redface.gif I totally agree with you there. I think it depends on the intended use as well. If someone is going to mainly be watching 2d, I think I would actually lean toward a low gain screen in light (no pun intended) of how bright this projector is. If you are going to mainly be watching 3d though, I would definitely lean toward a HP screen (or some sort of high gain screen) if it will work in the setup (if not, there are still good options for a screen of course). As you mention though, tons of variables and there are many options for screens depending on the particular set of circumstances.
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