Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 98

I just bought Calman and have been messing around with it for the past few nights. Are there advanced gray scale adjusments in the service menu? The Curt Palme guide talks about the possibility of them being available.
That guide is really great. I wish I spent another night trying to understand the free software instead of giving up and spending the $150 for Calman. Maybe it's me but the Calman is far from intuitive. It's also very buggy. Not trying to bash, just my initial thoughts. Maybe I need to spend more time on the tutorials.

 

Try these if you haven't already...  http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

Sorry, don't know what you mean. I was under the impression some displays have other ways to adjust gray scale...besides gain and offset. My question is if the projector has any other settings in the seervice menu to do this.

Check this article:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w7000-projector/page-4-on-the-bench.html

Well, there are some extra settings in the service menu, but I'm not sure any of them were related to a multi-point gray-scale/gamma adjustment if that's what you mean. In the service menu, there are many options for internal adjustments of color tables and color wheel indices, and you can potentially adjust some of this stuff as the lamp ages to reduce the amount of brightness lost post-calibration on an older lamp, but on a new lamp I wouldn't mess with it. Hence, I had no need to mess with most of this other stuff as the Benq has the best post-calibrated color I've ever seen on any projector (and I mean that). I have other projectors with multi-point gamma adjustments, but in reality I kind of like not having those (sounds funny), as it prevents my temptation of creating different gamma curves. The JVC has all this stuff and more gray-scale controls (but no CMS), and I absolutely despise calibrating JVC's as far as how long they take. I much prefer how the BENQ does it, fewer gray-scale controls but comes with a CMS, rather than JVC doing more gray-scale but no CMS (well the higher-end JVC's do have a CMS, but it's not perfect anyhow). This projector was 50x easier to calibrate than a JVC and is more color accurate with better skin tones.

I don't look forward to complicating a process that comes out beautifully by calibrating with most stuff in the SM at defaults. The gamma comes into near-perfect accuracy as well just after only calibrating normally, but further gamma adjustments would be nice if someone wanted to do an S-curve gamma or similar (but then hobbyist fever kicks in and you'll soon find that you have designed 50+ different gamma curves).

For the Gamut:
I am very impressed with how easy this projector was to calibrate, yes sometimes the Hue, Sat, Gain controls do interact a tad more than they should in the CMS, but compared to some other PJ's it was still very easy to get the color points lined up into the CIE boxes.

Very very impressive skin tones, VERY!
Edited by coderguy - 1/30/13 at 7:02pm

I took so many contrast readings my head is beginning to spin, here are the results over about 30+ different measurements:
The good thing is you CAN definitely control the aggressiveness of the DI in the service menu, but it's a bit tricky. I even bricked the menu quite a few times and had to restart the projector from the projector's on/off button on the projector itself, because I was changing stuff you shouldn't generally change.

I made the DYNAMIC on/off range from as poor as 1,200:1 all the way up to unlimited. It's not always intuitive to adjust the DI aggressiveness, sometimes it ignores your changes, it's easier if you change it and keep re-measuring the black level. You can adjust anywhere from 1000:1 dynamic to 10,000:1+ if you choose, in steps of about 25% or so (though it's not linear). After a "perfect calibration", I would probably shoot for 1,000:1 native on/off and adjust the DI until you hit 3,500:1 to 8,000:1 depending on personal preference as far as how bouncy you can live with.

With DI Disabled:

Usual / Average reading taken: 900:1 native on/off
Highest reading ever taken: 1,694:1 native on/off (unwatchable settings, changing SM values, move lens shift, adjusting color tables, changing lamp modes, random settings change)
Lowest reading ever taken: 540:1 native on/off (using a poorly calibrated preset far too green and blue)

My conclusion is, best case after a calibration you will get about 1,000:1 on/off (and any dynamic on/off you want). If you just calibrate normally and take a measurement from your first calibration, you will probably only get 600:1 to 800:1 on/off. If you keep tweaking slightly, you can get it a bit higher. Much like the other people, I was stuck between 650:1 and 1000:1 most of the time, though occasionally I'd get it higher with some settings. Changing settings does affect the native on/off, but you can't really control it that much because too many of the settings you could change to get it higher have other consequences or may not be compatible with your setup, so be happy at about 700:1 to 1000:1.

It's not that bad since the IRIS is so adjustable. I'm not saying my meter is 100% perfect, but it's gotta be pretty close because the projector is really so bright you don't need a reference level meter here.
Edited by coderguy - 1/31/13 at 7:42pm

Don't get me wrong, I am not looking to complicate the process, or create different curves as I am new at this...just thought I was missing something.
What do you use to calibrate? I am having a lot of trouble with green and since this is more of an art form I guess it takes a lot practice. Also, do you adjust the gain within the CMS..or just hue and sat.?
Thanks

I adjust hue, gain, and sat within the CMS to get the calibration points as perfect on the CIE triangle as possible. Keep in mind that on the Benq these three controls can affect each other a tad more than they should, but this did not stop me from getting it nearly perfectly lined up. Remember, do gray-scale, gamut, gray-scale as a minimum, but you might want to rinse and repeat a few times. I would not worry about the other controls so much this early on, just get the gray-scale and gamut accurate first. I would look into the D3 with Chromapure if you are looking for a new meter.

Thanks, That's what I'm using with Calman and HCFR. Like you say though, each one affects the other a lot which is frustrating.

Yah, I'm used to it though on some projectors like a Viewsonic it's 10x worse. Get the hue lined up first as close as possible I think is the way I did it, then saturation and gain adjustments. You could try the gain first to get the luminance readings as close to balanced as possible, then do Hue and Sat (whichever works).

Added:
Note for those with HP screens, I used to think my C6 was reading too low on red (hence meaning my calibration was coming out too red). I'm starting to think it is the HP screen causing it from meter angle of incidence. I'm testing this now. For HP owners, one temporary hacked solution is to get green and blue flat on the grayscale and take red down to 80% instead of 100%. If dead-set on calibrating from the screen with the High-Power, I would no longer recommend adjusting the meter position until you get the brightest fL (which is what we normally do on a regular screen). Instead, I would adjust the meter until it reads the highest amount of RED possible, the highest amount of RED your meter sees at a given position is probably the best spot to position the meter even if that means at a larger angle (still testing theory), I am starting to think this is more accurate. Even with the meter reading the highest amount of red at a given angle, I'm still thinking RED is still reading a tad too low, that is until I get my final numbers finished. I sit in the middle of my HP 2.4 gain screen, but it is mounted only 24" from the floor, so how much someone's numbers need to be offset is going to vary depending on PJ Angle + screen, so I'll try to standardize an offset method that correlates well by measurements and by eye.

I am pretty sure I can figure out how to fix this (and it's not just by calibrating from the lens), instead what I am doing is taping some neutral material to the middle of the screen and forcing as close as a possible match to how in A/B the neutral material looks different between it and the HP's near center border (since it's taped on screen I can see it live). I will measure the neutral material first, then the HP. What I really need right now to do this test perfectly is the Panny 4000/7000/8000 because it has a split-screen calibration mode, and with that I could keep the HP material on left and neutral white on right and just move the meter back and forth to take measurements while in split-screen mode, that is until both look exactly the same by meter readings and by eye, then use that as the neutral offset...

Never thought I'd have a need for a Panny right now, but actually I do

More to follow...
Edited by coderguy - 1/31/13 at 6:11pm

Coderguy, why not just calibrate from the lens if you think the HP is causing issues? I am going to experiment with this as well at some point since I dont fully trust the HP/meter interaction either.

The reason being is because if the HP has that much offset color, then calibrating from the lens is just going to ignore the offset. Optimally, what we want to do is to gimmick the perfect color with the proper offset to how our eyes are seeing it. If Zombie is getting the Panasonic soon, he needs to try to measure a difference with some neutral white material over the HP with the Panny in split-screen calibration mode, and let us know what he finds.

Despite all the above technical mumbo jumbo, I still love the HP screen, and most probably wouldn't even notice, as I've said my eyes are getting very sensitive to color after all these training exercises (might drive myself mad). A temp and simple solution for most MIGHT be to take Red down to 80% on the gray-scale and that might be close enough (not positive until further testing).
Edited by coderguy - 1/31/13 at 7:46pm

Interesting, thanks. I guess grayscale/gamma could be off as well calibrating off the HP screen?

Yes, I don't know what all is off, I'll know eventually, my meter accuracy shouldn't even matter very much at all in this tests (other than repeatability error which shouldn't make too much difference), as all I am concerned about is the differences between the readings, rather than the absolute readings themselves.

Hence, the neutral white material (need to find get some material that has a tendency to reflect closest to the most neutral white, will post in calibration and screen forums for this question).
Once I get that material, all I'll need to do is to take the difference between the lens and the neutral white material to create an offset for my room, then based on that first offset, compare that to the CENTER HP reading. Take the first offset and apply that to the center HP reading, and that should generally give me some idea to get it more exact anyhow, though results will need to be confirmed by eye.

Hi coderguy was wondering what you thought about the Xrite Eodis3 I1Display Pro. Also I have a very strange effect coming from my projector. There is a blooming smoke like effect on about 3/4 of my screen. I didn't really notice it at first but after about 500hrs it has become really bad. Could this be dust in the lens enclosure? I have been in contact with Benq online but I think I will have to phone them. i didn't notice any one else mention this but was hoping you might have an idea what I am talking about so I can more confidently explain it to Benq.

Not sure about the blooming smoke effect. I would get the D3 from ChromaPure instead, as it has a custom offset.
I wish XRITE would STOP naming all meters eye-one pro (i1onepro, eye pro), Rev A-Z.
Edited by coderguy - 1/31/13 at 7:06pm

Thank you very much for the info. It is a very strange effect. Very hard to explain but annoying non the less. It only appears on light even colored scenes.It almost looks like translucent clouds rolling across the screen. I took pictures but doesn't show up.Now that hockey is back on it really stands out.Oh well hopefully I don't get a hassle on sending it back.

It sounds similar to the strobing effect others have reported a few times, I can see a slight strobing on the upper-left quarter of my image under certain ALL light gray background on the HTPC. It almost looks like the IRIS being partially closed is reflecting some backwashed light back into the light path, the lens, or even the color wheel. I cannot tell and since I cannot see it in normal viewing at all yet I do not care that much. I don't know what the issue is, but it sounds like some are seeing it more severely and I have a suspicion what you are describing is the same thing I see in that one scenario.

Try turning dynamic black on, or more severely go into the service menu and play with the IRIS settings.

Added:
Now that I look at it again, I think it is something casting a shadow through the color wheel spinning, I assume it's harder to see at higher brightness because the shadow is over-powered and blends in.
Edited by coderguy - 1/31/13 at 7:34pm

The shadow through the color wheel sounds like a possibility. I see the effect on any medium I am using. From my PC to my OPPO 103 and cable tv.I even tried unhooking my Darbee and all other components with no luck. If I look at my lens from an angle it looks like there is debris in the lens casing. Well like I said hope Benq takes it in and solves the issue. I really love this Projector but can't live with this effect anymore. Thanks again for your time.

It would be great if you could get an exchange before giving up entirely (if this isn't added trouble), and then let us know if the exchanged one also has the issue.

Oh I am hoping for an exchange. And I will defiantly let you know how it goes. I guess I was worried they may hassle me because I have had it since September. But it does have a 1 year warranty so i am probably worrying for nothing .

Απ: Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread

I tried some tests with dynamic iris, but now i dont remember what was the default max aperture in service menu. Tried dynamic iris reset but every time max aperture take different values. ( 65,68,71)
Can someone tell me what is the default value of max aperture. ?

Changing max aperture setting really has no effect and the setting is inconsequential as far as I can tell, all you can do is change the min. and current aperture, but before doing so there are a few steps to make the Dynamic IRIS hold the settings:

Choose reset dynamic black, then adjust min. aperture and current aperture position to the same level, then test DI (easiest way to test DI is on an all black screen, open the menu and then close PJ menu to see how the DI is now responding). If it goes completely black as in you cannot even see light on the screen, you have it set too aggressive so go back into the SM and re-adjust. You may have to choose calibrate aperture for it to hold the setting. I'm not really sure though, I had mixed results with it holding adjusted DI settings, it holds the manual IRIS settings with Dynamic Black off simpler

Απ: Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread

I will try. Thank you.

Forgot to mention, that in various tests I did, I noticed the following:

When the dynamic iris is ON, the iris gets the value of max aperture.
When the dynamic iris is OFF, the iris gets the value of min aperture.

I'm trying to improve the black when running the dynamic iris. Thats why i tried to change the max value. (because iris follow the value of max aperture)
If I want to reduce the light iris, without using dynamic iris, then yes, resulting in a reduction of brightness with decreasing min aperture.

...also, whether give value below of 10 in min aperture, or above 90 in max aperture, the iris closing and reduce light.
But i think with D.I. ON when the iris goes above 90+ making a large use of dynamic gamma and the picture maybe is not very good.
On the contrary with D.I. off, the iris reduce light when we set the min aperture value below 10-9 but the dynamic gamma it is not in use. So, It's like having stepped iris.

This may have been covered somewhere back in the thread but will the SONY PS3 glasses work with the BenQ and a PS3?
If not, which, other than the BenQ, glasses will work?

Any DLP Link glasses should work, although some work better than others. There has been a lot covered in the thread already about it.

I never adjusted the MAX IRIS value, yet I was still able to get the DI more aggressive as needed by experimenting with the other settings (min, cur, reset db, and calibrate).
Maybe there was an easier way than the way I did it, but it worked as measured with the meter and as seen by the eye.

My screen is 40" high. Would this projector work placed on a rear shelf with the lens about 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen? I will be using the zoom method with my scope screen. My JVC has a huge vertical shift range, way more than I need to do the zoom method, so I hope the 7000's is enough.

The room is only 12'11" deep so if I place it against the back wall what would be the max screen width be? I know it won't fill my 40x96 for scope but would like to know how much smaller before ordering. It will be used only for 3D.

Thanks,
Tom