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Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 123

post #3661 of 3788
Gray screens won't technically improve black levels, they will just make the screen darker, but some gray screens with non-uniform gain do improve intrascene contrast in a non-perfect room and this can apply to darker scenes with some bright white. Hence, they increase ANSI contrast and can improve your perception of black levels due to the walls potentially receiving less light (your total contrast perception is partly based on reflection from your peripheral vision).

I would probably not buy a gray screen though, as you might be better off with something else, just depends. A lot of gray screens have unwanted side effects.
post #3662 of 3788
I have never been a fan of grey screens as they mute the entire picture to my eyes. Sure, you get a bit better blacks but at the cost of muted whites and colors which is not a great trade IMO. No free lunch. I know grey screens can have their place, but I would do my best to avoid one of possible.
post #3663 of 3788
Don't know about the gray custom paint jobs that some people swear by, but when I made my new 2.76x1 screen, I did a test (in a completely dark room) using both sides of Joanne's Fabric Blackout cloth to see which side I preferred. The white side won hands down! The gray side muted the whites and colors way too much.

I suppose gray screens have their place. Probably most useful in situations where their is more ambient light. But in a completely dark room, white is the way I'd go.
Edited by rgrele - 10/27/13 at 2:20pm
post #3664 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Gray screens won't technically improve black levels, they will just make the screen darker, but some gray screens with non-uniform gain do improve intrascene contrast in a non-perfect room and this can apply to darker scenes with some bright white. Hence, they increase ANSI contrast and can improve your perception of black levels due to the walls potentially receiving less light (your total contrast perception is partly based on reflection from your peripheral vision).

I would probably not buy a gray screen though, as you might be better off with something else, just depends. A lot of gray screens have unwanted side effects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I have never been a fan of grey screens as they mute the entire picture to my eyes. Sure, you get a bit better blacks but at the cost of muted whites and colors which is not a great trade IMO. No free lunch. I know grey screens can have their place, but I would do my best to avoid one of possible.

I thought as much, I had simply never really considered them before and wanted to make sure my thoughts where not incorrect.

So I am correct to say outside of reducing the effects of ambient light all they do is darken the whole image.
post #3665 of 3788
There are so many different screens out there, that it totally depends on your budget and how much gain you prefer. I would give Mike @ AVS a call about screens, he knows a lot more about the specific screens for each individual purpose. His username is AV Science Sales 5 in the forums.

He will be the best judge at matching you up with a good screen for your viewing environment.

OK, this is going to be a long post, because I am just not good at explaining things whilst leaving details out. Hence, this is probably over-explained, but at least it is not under-explained, so here it goes...

The Benq w7000 has an adjustable Iris, so being too bright isn't an issue for most. Even if you are getting 50+ foot lamberts in 2D from it being too bright, you can close the Iris back down to get 12-20 foot lamberts, the Iris closes way down if you need it to. The only side effect to using the adjustable Iris that I have noticed is you temporarily lose the ability to use it as a Dynamic Iris (which on this projector honestly isn't much of a loss). The other side effect is on pure white scenes (like Hockey or HTPC use), you can notice a slight lamp pulsing in one of the corners, but it's fairly mild effect. The lamp pulsing seems to be caused by a combination of having a new lamp and closing the Iris, so I think you may see a little pulsing even with the Iris open. The pulsing effect does go away over time, so no worries at all. I think mine disappeared at around 300-500 hours.

Unfortunately it gets a bit complicated.

You have the general idea about screens, but not precisely, as a certain screen can help with white walls even when there is no ambient light, but it depends on the type of gray screen and how close your room is to a bat-cave. Whether or not a particular gray screen helps in that area depends on if the gain is uniform or whether it is reflecting more light in a certain direction. It also depends on how the room is setup (where the problem reflections are).

The Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain screen (known as a retro-reflective type of screen) also reflects light away from the walls just like a non-uniform gray screen (but the HP is not a gray screen). The reason it does is because these screens redirect the light from the outside back towards the viewer (technically back towards the PJ lens based on the angle), so less light hits the ceiling and walls. This is how they increase ANSI contrast.

The problem is, I am not sure anyone has found a gray screen that is good at both dark and bright viewing, hence positive gain and/or non-uniform gain gray screens usually have major side effects or texture.

The HP 2.4 gain screen I think it still about the only very non-uniform screen that doesn't have much texture, sure there are other non-uniform screens, but I mean the ones that are really retro-reflective and redirect a significant amount of light back towards the viewer and away from walls/ceiling/carpet all generally have bad side effects and are best installed to rooms with ambient light.

The other problem is, the Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain screen isn't as good as the 2.8 gain screen they used to make which was discontinued, it has mixed reviews. I own this screen and I think it is pretty good, but it is no Stewart Snowmatte and nowhere near a reference level screen.

So the simple and short answer is, the 2.4 gain HP screen is a great budget screen when you want to combine the brightest 3D and still have good 2D viewing without too many side effects to the image when doing dark movie viewing, and the over-kill on brightness from the HP in 2D isn't a big deal on the Benq w7000, because Benq has an adjustable Iris to counter the extra gain.

So most of us don't care about it being too bright, we just don't want it to be too dark in 3D. Too bright is a good problem with the w7000.
post #3666 of 3788

I purchased an Epson 8350 the other day and have fallen in love with the projector experience all over again. I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with both the W7000 and the Epson 8350. I know the W7000 is much more expensive. I had a DLP projector about 7 years ago and I wasn't effected by RBE so I'm not worried about going the DLP route. I'm a gamer so I appreciate low input lag. The 8350 has 20ms and this I read has around 40ms which is still low enough. I probably wouldn't use 3D very often because its not really my thing (although I thought Gravity had excellent 3D). For now I'm projecting on a white wall but I'm considering getting a Elite Sable screen. Is the W7000 loud and how does the image compare? Also how does the lens shift compare? I shift the image down.

post #3667 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by writtensarcasm View Post

I purchased an Epson 8350 the other day and have fallen in love with the projector experience all over again. I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with both the W7000 and the Epson 8350. I know the W7000 is much more expensive. I had a DLP projector about 7 years ago and I wasn't effected by RBE so I'm not worried about going the DLP route. I'm a gamer so I appreciate low input lag. The 8350 has 20ms and this I read has around 40ms which is still low enough. I probably wouldn't use 3D very often because its not really my thing (although I thought Gravity had excellent 3D). For now I'm projecting on a white wall but I'm considering getting a Elite Sable screen. Is the W7000 loud and how does the image compare? Also how does the lens shift compare? I shift the image down.

I owned both and loved both.

If I had a choice I would go with the W7000 without question.

The W7000 has that DLP-look that I love! It is loud but not any louder than the 8350. The one thing that is extremely annoying with the BenQ was the dynamic iris.....it squealed this high pitch sound and I had to shut it off. Blacks are comparable but maybe a slight advantage towards the W7000 but not by much. Neither are close to my old 8500Ub or my JVC X-55 for blacks. The W7000 is a lot brighter and has that DLP-look....did I already mention that? 3-D looks really good on the W7000 as well (although I hardly ever watch 3-D once the novelty wore off) The Epson has better lens shift. The BenQ has to be placed further back for the same sized screen (zoom).

Gaming- I know the 8350 has better lag but I really never noticed in game play. The picture with the W7000 was noticeably better with the W7000. The only way I can describe it is: the 8350 kinda smudged the background image as I panned my player (COD) and looked a lot smoother and less unfocused while the screen panned with the BenQ.

I loved both projectors and would be happy with either but I would choose the BenQ in a heart beat.
post #3668 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post


I owned both and loved both.

If I had a choice I would go with the W7000 without question.

The W7000 has that DLP-look that I love! It is loud but not any louder than the 8350. The one thing that is extremely annoying with the BenQ was the dynamic iris.....it squealed this high pitch sound and I had to shut it off. Blacks are comparable but maybe a slight advantage towards the W7000 but not by much. Neither are close to my old 8500Ub or my JVC X-55 for blacks. The W7000 is a lot brighter and has that DLP-look....did I already mention that? 3-D looks really good on the W7000 as well (although I hardly ever watch 3-D once the novelty wore off) The Epson has better lens shift. The BenQ has to be placed further back for the same sized screen (zoom).

Gaming- I know the 8350 has better lag but I really never noticed in game play. The picture with the W7000 was noticeably better with the W7000. The only way I can describe it is: the 8350 kinda smudged the background image as I panned my player (COD) and looked a lot smoother and less unfocused while the screen panned with the BenQ.

I loved both projectors and would be happy with either but I would choose the BenQ in a heart beat.

Thanks this is exactly what I was hoping to find out. How much worse is the lens shift? I barely use it now, but do use it to lower the image a little bit. Also, how big a difference does the throw distance make? I don't currently use my 8350 at full size because its too big. I decrease it maybe 20% or so. 

Edit: I did some measuring and used the manufacturer's calculators. Right now I've decreased the size to 86" and I'm at around a 10ft 11" throw distance. It looks like the W7000 will be able to display an 86" image as well. The max size the 8350 can reach from this distance is 111" and the max size the W7000 can reach from that distance is 93". 


Edited by writtensarcasm - 10/31/13 at 10:20pm
post #3669 of 3788
My mistake, since my screen is pretty large (153" diagonal) I go full zoom in order to get as much of the light as possible (projector as close to the screen as I can). I can go 15'ish feet with the Epson and 18'ish feet with the BenQ.

There's lens shift just not as much as the Epson.

My current setup is W7000 for regular TV, 3-D and PS3 (soon to be PS4 smile.gif) and my JVC X-55 for movies (2D). Once you have a taste of them deep blacks!
post #3670 of 3788
Hey Crab (and others):

My squealing IRIS went away after a few hundred hours of the DI enabled. It may be worth a shot to put up with it as it might get much much quieter over time until the noise eventually fades into nothingness. The problem appears to be some type of mechanism causing friction against one of the moving parts. It seems to wear down after a while and stop doing that annoying mechanical almost beep like sound.

Benq Locks on invalid 3D handshake when using newer Nvidia Cards
Also, I have a problem with newer NVIDIA's and the Benq projector. Pretty sure my old NVIDIA card (GTX 280) did not do what my new one is doing (GT 6600). The issue is in handshaking different 3D to 2D resolutions when caught in the middle, occasionally the video card sends an invalid handshake to the Benq causing the Benq to get confused and the firmware in the Benq that deals with handshakes (or the HW) locks up. Luckily the projector still responds to a SHUT OFF, but it is the only thing the projector responds to. I eliminated all possible usual suspects (direct PC to Benq - NO HDMI switch, changed HDMI cable). It is not only a Benq projector issue persay, since I plugged my Viewsonic in (and even though it doesn't do 3d) the invalid synch from the video card sent a similarly garbled handshake and the VS "almost locked up" as well, the color wheel went nutso.

It sux because I keep having to power on/off the projector when the random invalid handshake occurs when exiting or joining 3d modes on my PC, so if anyone has a similar issue or has found a fix in NVIDIA Inspector or otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing about it. The issue is not game specific, but can happen in any game that causes a handshake re-synch halfway between Exiting the Game and going to the Win 7 desktop. It seems to be that the video card does not limit itself properly to all Benq capable 3Dhz modes, so that occasionally the NVIDIA decides to send a half-handshake (so to speak) as an invalid signal to re-synch.

Thanks - CG
Edited by coderguy - 11/3/13 at 10:41am
post #3671 of 3788
EDIT

Bah, I tried everything now to no avail, I can do 3D with the HTPC fine on this new NVIDIA card, but ALT-TAB'n 3D is the kiss of death and randomly "soft locks" the projector, sometimes it works sometimes it does not. I'm going to have to try to keep my desktop in full 3D mode (yuck) or make a change to the NVIDIA profile of how it detects working resolutions and handshakes (not exactly sure how/where/if I can do this). Will need to go to NVIDIA forums to see if anyone has ideas in there.

I still wonder if anyone else has the issue or if it is just this new card I bought (I don't think it's the card), but I think it's the latest NVIDIA chipsets + drivers in how they synch in 3D mode between 2D and 3D (just my guess though).
Edited by coderguy - 11/3/13 at 11:35am
post #3672 of 3788
^ Which GPU are you using, i'm using a 680 and yet to have an issue.
post #3673 of 3788
I think it might only happen when trying to use 1080p/24hz rather than 720p modes. The only reason I even use 1080p mode is because I am just playing a flight sim, so the lag doesn't matter and I crank up FI anyhow to smooth out the 24hz. The GTX 660 is what I have, I'm wondering if it's some mode change Flight Simulator X causes between screens. I would think the 680 and 660 would be the same, that's weird but have you tried 1080p/24 and lots of ALT-TABS, it doesn't always happen right away.
post #3674 of 3788
Has anyone had a chance to compare the W7000 to the Epson 6500ub (or 8500/8700 models)? I own the latter. It's fantastic when the bulb is fresh both in a lit room and a dark room on a 100" .8 gain grey screen from 14-15' away. Yet once the bulb dims after the initial 1st few hundred hours, it becomes problematic unless things are pitch black (I have an open concept house so that is not always possible during the day and why I have a grey screen with negative gain). I'm curious if the W7000 extra brightness is truly significant compared to the 6500 and will help alleviate this issue (even after initial bulb diminishment) or if I should wait for an Epson 5010 refurb to be available again on the market. I would love to try the Panasonic Ar100u, but it doesn't have enough horizontal lens shift to work for my setup (I need about 30").
post #3675 of 3788
For those who own this model, it appears that BenQ has discontinued the W7000.

My primary use for the projector will be 3D for the kids and sports for myself. Given those needs, it seems a DLP would be the way to go.

Any insight on what (W7500, W8000) and when the next generation of the W7000 will be available?

Thanks in advance for your reply.
post #3676 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Hey Crab (and others):

My squealing IRIS went away after a few hundred hours of the DI enabled. It may be worth a shot to put up with it as it might get much much quieter over time until the noise eventually fades into nothingness. The problem appears to be some type of mechanism causing friction against one of the moving parts. It seems to wear down after a while and stop doing that annoying mechanical almost beep like sound.

Thanx coderguy. I'll re-enable the iris and put up with it and see. It is rather annoying though....thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfrankdfrank View Post

Has anyone had a chance to compare the W7000 to the Epson 6500ub (or 8500/8700 models)? I own the latter. It's fantastic when the bulb is fresh both in a lit room and a dark room on a 100" .8 gain grey screen from 14-15' away. Yet once the bulb dims after the initial 1st few hundred hours, it becomes problematic unless things are pitch black (I have an open concept house so that is not always possible during the day and why I have a grey screen with negative gain). I'm curious if the W7000 extra brightness is truly significant compared to the 6500 and will help alleviate this issue (even after initial bulb diminishment) or if I should wait for an Epson 5010 refurb to be available again on the market. I would love to try the Panasonic Ar100u, but it doesn't have enough horizontal lens shift to work for my setup (I need about 30").

I owned the 8500Ub and the blacks blow the W7000 away, although I prefer the DLP look. I'll post a couple comparison shots from both.

Bulb quality control seems to be an issue with Epson. I had a bulb go at 800'ish hours and one that was still going close to 2000 hours (unfortunately had to get a replacement projector....it had a bad bulb). I also had bulbs go at other various times. My screen is 153" (16x9 diagonal) and even after 500 hours, the picture still looked fantastic....with any of the bulbs I had.

W70004.jpg

8500Ub4.jpg

W70001.jpg

8500Ub1.jpg

W70002.jpg

8500Ub2.jpg

W70005.jpg

8500Ub5.jpg
Edited by Crabalocker - 11/4/13 at 1:36pm
post #3677 of 3788
W7500 is now on the Benq website along with 2 other new W* models. Initial differences I see:
Additional connector options.
HDMI 1.4a support (vs. 1.4)
2D to 3D conversion capability
Higher dynamic contrast - uses DC3
Additional modes

When will AVS get first shipment?

EDIT: I see it is only listed on the global site and not the US site... frown.gif
Edited by tisserda - 11/4/13 at 3:48pm
post #3678 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Thanx coderguy. I'll re-enable the iris and put up with it and see. It is rather annoying though....thanks for the tip!
I owned the 8500Ub and the blacks blow the W7000 away, although I prefer the DLP look. I'll post a couple comparison shots from both.

Bulb quality control seems to be an issue with Epson. I had a bulb go at 800'ish hours and one that was still going close to 2000 hours (unfortunately had to get a replacement projector....it had a bad bulb). I also had bulbs go at other various times. My screen is 153" (16x9 diagonal) and even after 500 hours, the picture still looked fantastic....with any of the bulbs I had.

W70004.jpg

8500Ub4.jpg

W70001.jpg

8500Ub1.jpg

W70002.jpg

8500Ub2.jpg

W70005.jpg

8500Ub5.jpg








Wow that is a stunning difference in black levels, I love my BenqW7000 for HDTV and sports but watch a lot of Fantasy and Sci Fi and am looking for a PJ for movies. 3D is unimportant so the 8700UB looks good.
post #3679 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

Wow that is a stunning difference in black levels, I love my BenqW7000 for HDTV and sports but watch a lot of Fantasy and Sci Fi and am looking for a PJ for movies. 3D is unimportant so the 8700UB looks good.

Be aware that I can make my w7000 in screenshots have deep blacks as well so I wouldn't use screenshoots to make your decision. I will say the w7000 blacks are poor and it is more a projector for those willing to sacrifice blacks for close to flawless 3d. I do not like epson but most do. If you don't plan on using 3d often I wouldn't recommend the w7000 in any case unless you intend to use your projector with light on frequently.

Be aware you are sacrificing sharpness when you go with a 3 lcd projector as misalignment is inevitable in such a design at this price point.
post #3680 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by tisserda View Post

W7500 is now on the Benq website along with 2 other new W* models. Initial differences I see:
Additional connector options.
HDMI 1.4a support (vs. 1.4)
2D to 3D conversion capability
Higher dynamic contrast - uses DC3
Additional modes

When will AVS get first shipment?

EDIT: I see it is only listed on the global site and not the US site... frown.gif
144hz 3d instead of 120hz 3d
post #3681 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwk2293 View Post

144hz 3d instead of 120hz 3d

Of course it is preferable to have a 1:1 ratio pulldown, but is it something we can actually see in motion? I honestly am not sure, anyone have any ideas on this?
post #3682 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Can we actually notice the 3:2 pulldown? Of course it is preferable to have a 1:1 ratio pulldown, but is it something we can actually see in motion. I honestly am not sure, anyone have any ideas on this?

It's no different than watching 24p content at 60 hertz. Some people will notice the non-perfect pans and other types of movement and some will not. Watch 2D 24p material at 60hz and if you can see pulldown artifacts you'll probably notice them in 3D as well. Some projectors (and TVs) have better pulldown compensation to lessen the stuttering effect pulldown can create which makes it less noticeable.
post #3683 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

It's no different than watching 24p content at 60 hertz. Some people will notice the non-perfect pans and other types of movement and some will not. Watch 2D 24p material at 60hz and if you can see pulldown artifacts you'll probably notice them in 3D as well. Some projectors (and TVs) have better pulldown compensation to lessen the stuttering effect pulldown can create which makes it less noticeable.

So it really comes down to how well the display device does it then. I shall have to compare my plasma with a 1:1 pulldown with this projectors 3:2 pulldown and see what I notice. I do notice judder at times but no more then I did with my plasma. Though maybe it is more pronounced. I shall have to see.
post #3684 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwk2293 View Post

144hz 3d instead of 120hz 3d

Where did you get that info? It's not listed on it's product page.

http://www.benq.com/product/projector/w7500/specifications
post #3685 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Be aware that I can make my w7000 in screenshots have deep blacks as well so I wouldn't use screenshoots to make your decision. I will say the w7000 blacks are poor and it is more a projector for those willing to sacrifice blacks for close to flawless 3d. I do not like epson but most do. If you don't plan on using 3d often I wouldn't recommend the w7000 in any case unless you intend to use your projector with light on frequently.

Be aware you are sacrificing sharpness when you go with a 3 lcd projector as misalignment is inevitable in such a design at this price point.

You think I'm intentionally trying to mislead the guy??

I've owned both (at the same time) and those pictures are a pretty good representation of what you can expect.
================================================================================================================================================
Right now I run my W7000 for regular TV, video games and 3D. I now run a JVC X-55 for 2D movies. The W7000 is a fantastic projector but for movies....blacks are where it's at.

I'm not a photographer and those pictures were taken back-to-back with the same camera settings. It's a pretty good representation of what I see on my screen.

If you're wanting brightness, the BenQ is noticeably brighter. You can tell just by looking at the screen shot of Jake and the two fella's asking him to replace his brother.
post #3686 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

You think I'm intentionally trying to mislead the guy??

I've owned both (at the same time) and those pictures are a pretty good representation of what you can expect.
================================================================================================================================================
Right now I run my W7000 for regular TV, video games and 3D. I now run a JVC X-55 for 2D movies. The W7000 is a fantastic projector but for movies....blacks are where it's at.

I'm not a photographer and those pictures were taken back-to-back with the same camera settings. It's a pretty good representation of what I see on my screen.

If you're wanting brightness, the BenQ is noticeably brighter. You can tell just by looking at the screen shot of Jake and the two fella's asking him to replace his brother.

No I don't think you are trying to mislead him. I do think making purchases on a projector based on screenshots is a bad idea though. In fact I agree and stated that the black levels are poor and wouldn't recommend the projector unless 3d or watching with the lights on was his priority (I should add another time I would recommend this is if his budget was limited to this price range and he wanted a dlp projector, I for example can't imagine going with something that wasn't dlp and the one time I did I regretted it [though jvc lcos are pushing me close to going non dlp again biggrin.gif]). None of that changes the fact that screenshoots are fun to take and to look at, but they are not very useful for informing users of the quality of the projector as their are so many variables that effect how they look on ones screen.
Edited by FilmReverie - 11/5/13 at 5:27am
post #3687 of 3788
3D in 24p 3:2 without FI does not look the same to me as in 2D, I am not sure exactly why the issue is more pronounced in 3D, but I assume it is due to our eyes having to go through two timing phases, one being the shuttering of the glasses, and two being the way our eyes interpret the frame mismatch from 24p 3:2. So FI is very helpful in 3D.
post #3688 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Of course it is preferable to have a 1:1 ratio pulldown, but is it something we can actually see in motion? I honestly am not sure, anyone have any ideas on this?

I noticed it right off the bat. Fortunately, I use and love the FI on low for all things 3d which smooths out the motion beautifully, but if not for that, I would not be satisfied.
post #3689 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

3D in 24p 3:2 without FI does not look the same to me as in 2D, I am not sure exactly why the issue is more pronounced in 3D, but I assume it is due to our eyes having to go through two timing phases, one being the shuttering of the glasses, and two being the way our eyes interpret the frame mismatch from 24p 3:2. So FI is very helpful in 3D.

For me it's the opposite. In 2D at 60hz, pulldown artifacts are way more pronounced for me. I think the constant blanking of the glasses acts as a motion enhancer, sort of like dark frame insertion, so I don't normally see pulldown artifacts when 3D is playing on a 120hz refresh projector. At least that's how it's been on the 3 or 4 120hz 3D projectors I've owned or demoed. Everyone has a different tolerance which is why demo'ing products is important. Like DLP rainbows not everyone can see them. The same can be said about issues with 120hz 3D performance.
post #3690 of 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

3D in 24p 3:2 without FI does not look the same to me as in 2D, I am not sure exactly why the issue is more pronounced in 3D, but I assume it is due to our eyes having to go through two timing phases, one being the shuttering of the glasses, and two being the way our eyes interpret the frame mismatch from 24p 3:2. So FI is very helpful in 3D.

That was my impression as well. The 3:2 in 3d is more pronounced to my eyes for whatever reason to the point I found it distracting.
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