AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread - Page 32

post #931 of 3452
4/12/12 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

This is good news, but still a few other things to consider...

I was hoping they'd make the torch mode work as in 3D selectable?
Did they ever say if the CW was 4x vs. 6x? It sounds like it is 4x from all the reviews.

FI does not work in 3D but image still looks smooth anyways (DLP motion), right??

Dynamic IRIS is not doing much in 3D, or is it?

That's pretty funny. I agree with Zombie on the beta tester thing, it shouldn't be that way, but it is. It's mostly corporate red tape and disorganization that causes it.

They didn't say if it was 4x or 6x, I'll try to corner them into providing an answer once the smoke clears. I am highly RBE sensitive, I don't see the RBE in 3D like I do on the Acer but I haven't watched much 2D due to the mapping issue.

The FI does indeed work in 3D. The last time I watched it was a movie called 'Street Dance 3D' (filmed in the UK, never saw anyone talk about this movie, but it's one of my favorite 3D titles) and the action is fast in this movie. It looks great with the FI on low, rivaling the HW30's FI in 3D, but without the ghosting in the tough scenes.

One thing that is remarkable about the W7000 is the refresh rate which is another thing I can pick out easily. It goes in this order:

JVC < Sony HW30 < Epson 5010 < W7000. It makes sense 120hz,240hz, 480hz and 10 million hz

T-minus 2 hours before I can get home to check out the W7000.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #932 of 3452
4/12/12 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

I don't see significant ghosting on the Sony. I also don't see RBE. The Sony unit is a better all around unit. You are paying a big price in the quest for a ghost free DLP image not to mention quality DLP link glasses cost a premium. My Sony also has a 3yr warranty compared to BenQ's 1yr. I have had DLP units before. A single chip DLP is not projector heaven.

I am just saying you guys are sure going through a lot grief with the BenQ units.

The Sony HW30 is certainly a great unit for man-caves. However, for those of us with white walls/ceiling or PC/console gamers, the BenQ is a much better choice. It's a true light cannon, and throws a rich, vibrant picture (as did my W6000).

With these issues (hopefully) resolved, my order will be placed this week. I also prefer to support a company that aggressively works with the consumer to correct and improve the product. It provides confidence in a substantial investment.
Reply
Reply
post #933 of 3452
4/12/12 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
the HW30 and W7000 are similar in light output once calibrated to D65. I will verify this with the current firmware in case anything has changed. The HW30 is actually one of the better gaming choices with ~25MS lag times in the special gaming mode.

The W7000 is going to be sharper and the 3D is it's major strength. None of the current LCD/LCOS/SXRD projectors are going to be able to handle tough 3D movies like the DLP's. It's just the nature of the tech for now.
Reply
Reply
post #934 of 3452
4/12/12 at 4:59pm
Compared to the JVC (not sure about the Sony), the DLP's I've seen also handle poorer sources and streaming content much better and cleaner. The Benq has much brighter near-best modes, and still a bit brighter calibrated, over time the Benq will probably be brighter. No comparison for gaming either, the DLP's are better for HTPC and gaming in general.

The black levels are good enough for most people, but I am pretty sure it is a 4x color wheel, which is generally too much RBE for me.

The thing about black levels is this, when there are movies I need them on, I can really appreciate the blacks on the JVC. Harry Potter is one that comes to mind, and although it had incredible special effects, the movies themselves could have been better. The last Star Trek movie, the JVC helped, but not as much as you'd think, the dark scenes in that movie were milky (filmed that way), so it didn't make much difference between DLP or JVC. There are only a few well filmed dark movies that I have seen where it really makes a huge difference throughout the entire movie. Having watched Immortals on the JVC recently, it was like blah, even though the blacks were good, the color was off, and I just didn't like the way it was filmed nor did I really care for the movie itself (some scenes looked cool). Thor looked really good on the JVC, something like this is going to cause a DLP some issues, but I'm almost ready to go back to DLP permanently from the JVC and live with the lesser black levels.

I still like the JVC, but I get bored owning the same projector for too long. DLP is also more diverse than LCOS. I don't have as much use for dark scene contrast as I thought I would, some but I can usually live with worse black levels I think.
Reply
Reply
post #935 of 3452
4/12/12 at 5:05pm
Jason....sorry didn't understand the spec on the W7000 for refresh? Can you elaborate? Just not a number I've personally been aware of ever seeing before related to Hz.

"JVC < Sony HW30 < Epson 5010 < W7000. It makes sense 120hz,240hz, 480hz and 10 million hz"



How long hours wise can one expect the color wheel on these level of DLPs to be trouble and noise free, assuming no lemon?

I've never seen a DLP projector so don't know about rainbows. My LED Sammy 61" I don't see but no color wheel. Will have to rely on you, and Art in his review for what you see in 2D as well. He said he was susceptible but the W7000 was hard for him to see any. Sounds like you are sensitive too. Another person in recent posts said he saw them a lot on W6000 I think it was, maybe the 7000.
Reply
Reply
post #936 of 3452
4/12/12 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Compared to the JVC (not sure about the Sony), the DLP's I've seen also handle poorer sources and streaming content much better and cleaner. The Benq has much brighter near-best modes, and still a bit brighter calibrated, over time the Benq will probably be brighter. No comparison for gaming either, the DLP's are better for HTPC and gaming in general.

The black levels are good enough for most people, but I am pretty sure it is a 4x color wheel, which is generally too much RBE for me.

The thing about black levels is this, when there are movies I need them on, I can really appreciate the blacks on the JVC. Harry Potter is one that comes to mind, and although it had incredible special effects, the movies themselves could have been better. The last Star Trek movie, the JVC helped, but not as much as you'd think, the dark scenes in that movie were milky (filmed that way), so it didn't make much difference between DLP or JVC. There are only a few well filmed dark movies that I have seen where it really makes a huge difference throughout the entire movie. Having watched Immortals on the JVC recently, it was like blah, even though the blacks were good, the color was off, and I just didn't like the way it was filmed nor did I really care for the movie itself (some scenes looked cool). Thor looked really good on the JVC, something like this is going to cause a DLP some issues, but I'm almost ready to go back to DLP permanently from the JVC and live with the lesser black levels.

I still like the JVC, but I get bored owning the same projector for too long. DLP is also more diverse than LCOS. I don't have as much use for dark scene contrast as I thought I would, some but I can usually live with worse black levels I think.

What do you use for streaming coder? Streamed video on my unit looks excellent. Better than non digital cable for sure. Unlike you, I see the benefits of on/off in pretty much all scenes. Not just the dark ones.
Reply
Reply
post #937 of 3452
4/12/12 at 5:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Jason....sorry didn't understand the spec on the W7000 for refresh? Can you elaborate? Just not a number I've personally been aware of ever seeing before related to Hz.

"JVC < Sony HW30 < Epson 5010 < W7000. It makes sense 120hz,240hz, 480hz and 10 million hz"

How long hours wise can one expect the color wheel on these level of DLPs to be trouble and noise free, assuming no lemon?

I've never seen a DLP projector so don't know about rainbows. My LED Sammy 61" I don't see but no color wheel. Will have to rely on you, and Art in his review for what you see in 2D as well. He said he was susceptible but the W7000 was hard for him to see any. Sounds like you are sensitive too. Another person in recent posts said he saw them a lot on W6000 I think it was, maybe the 7000.

Ron, that was a passing joke on how fast the DLP's are refreshing vs LCD/LCOS/SXRD. The DLP's have a much higher refresh rate which accounts for how well they handle 3D and the lack of perceivable flicker in the shutter glasses.

RBE is a highly subjective topic, it's one of those things you'll have to see for yourself if it's an issue. The RBE is less on the W7000 than it is on my W6000 or SP890 I have at work. Once I get a chance to watch some more 2D content, I'll be able to better judge. I don't notice RBE in 3D which is a good thing. It's relatively obvious on my Acer 3D DLP, I'm not sure of the wheel speed, I think 3x.
Reply
Reply
post #938 of 3452
4/12/12 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


yes... yes I am.

just kidding, but I am exciting to get this home tonight to check it out. The mapping issue was quite obvious on my 142" compared to the other projectors, especially when I know how sharp the W6000 and SP890 I have at work are in comparison. Now the W7000 matches the SP890, at least with a PC 1080P signal over HDMI.

it's kind of cryptic, it just says 001. I'll verify later tonight.

What are your screen details (size, gain, etc.)?

Will the 7000 cut it on a 2.35 ratio 144" wide 1.0 gain screen in a cave? Thx
Reply
Reply
post #939 of 3452
4/12/12 at 7:51pm
I'm pretty certain it is a 4x wheel and I can easily see the RBE but it hasn't bothered me yet, which is a big difference. I'm using it on a 2.40, 1.3 gain 122" screen and the issue for me is the zoom ratio isn't large enough to fill the screen from my mounting location. Both the JVC X30 and Sony 95ES could do it easily. With a lens this wouldn't be an issue of course.

I really loved the JVC blacks, and on the W7000 they are noticeably lighter but if the screen is filled I don't notice at all. The 3D is so much better on the BenQ but I really am not a 3D person. I'm a normal movie guy, no interpolation, no sports in the theater and I find the JVC matches that but other projectors are more versatile for sure.
Reply
Reply
post #940 of 3452
4/12/12 at 7:58pm
Now that I received my TrueDepth 3D glasses, I've been able to break-in my W7000. I was able to get the full 2.40:1 3D image, using the stretch feature on my Oppo player, instead of the W7000. Beautiful!!!! I am so happy with the 3D image on this unit.

However, it appears that i have a problem with the Dynamic Black (DB) function when watching 3D movies on my unit. On any given scene, the image goes from Bright to Dark and then Bright again. When I set DB to OFF, the image is just Dark. When I set it back to ON, once again the image goes from a fantastic bright to a dark image, intermittently .... not just when the scene changes, but on the same scene image as well. Has anyone experienced this? Do I need to change my settings? I e-mailed BenQ with a video and am hoping to hear from them tomorrow. Since this is a refurb W7000, I am thinking it is a defective unit. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Reply
Reply
post #941 of 3452
4/12/12 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
I went right for the single pixel test on the AVS HD disk. I could tell right away it was fixed when the main menu for the AVS disk was on the screen. it's a big difference from before, especially on a nice sized 142" screen.

So far, this is looking great. I put on the 'Art of the Flight' which is reference quality source footage to show the best (or worst) of any projector. It looks great on the W7000.. finally!

I had the lamp on high, dead center on my 2.8 HP - It's blindly bright, just how I like it. I thought for sure I would see RBE with so much brightness and the white mountains in this demo material. I'm not seeing it and my eyes are tired since it's getting late. As RBE sensitive as I am, this is surprising. I wonder if anything was done to the colorwheel speed, I'll have to ask BQ.

Time to go check out some 3D with the ZD201 glasses.











Reply
Reply
post #942 of 3452
4/12/12 at 9:22pm
Wow, thanks for all the hard work and posting efforts. Time to beat Acer up or dump my Acer which I am pretty happy with. If BenQ can fix this then certainly a computer manufacturer can.
Reply
Reply
post #943 of 3452
4/12/12 at 9:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

What do you use for streaming coder? Streamed video on my unit looks excellent. Better than non digital cable for sure.

Keep in mind I am sitting 8 feet away from 106" screen, so that's pretty close. Yes, streaming is better than SD Cable, no question. I'm just bored with the JVC. I get used to one or the other and it doesn't really make that much difference to me unless I'm watching certain movies.
Reply
Reply
post #944 of 3452
4/13/12 at 1:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Keep in mind I am sitting 8 feet away from 106" screen, so that's pretty close. Yes, streaming is better than SD Cable, no question. I'm just bored with the JVC. I get used to one or the other and it doesn't really make that much difference to me unless I'm watching certain movies.

I gotcha, I forgot how close you sit to the screen. I'm nearly double that distance from a 120" screen most of the time. Just finished watching Three Musketeers(2011) last night. Nice visual effects and beautiful eye popping colors!
The story line was nothing to write home about. We mainly just oh and awed at the images.

Nice pics Zombie!!
Reply
Reply
post #945 of 3452
4/13/12 at 3:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I went right for the single pixel test on the AVS HD disk. I could tell right away it was fixed when the main menu for the AVS disk was on the screen. it's a big difference from before, especially on a nice sized 142" screen.

So far, this is looking great. I put on the 'Art of the Flight' which is reference quality source footage to show the best (or worst) of any projector. It looks great on the W7000.. finally!

I had the lamp on high, dead center on my 2.8 HP - It's blindly bright, just how I like it.

Me too!
I've learned that slave labor it not exclusive to China as existing owners have been put through quite an ordeal

Stepping back its kind of ridiculous in 2012 that everyone had to wait months for a high performance front projector to enable 1:1 pixel mapping. It was an issue until 10 years ago, when designers realized they didn't need overscan for digital broadcasts.

It also ridiculous that consumers are currently reporting that the Acer 1280 projector is sharper than the 1920 rez Acer 9500!

So overall welcome news, but please confirm that other areas have not been degraded. How is the black level?

Owners should not assume that its ONLY a firmware fix as when a projector is sent back for service. That is, their can also be unspoken board revisions too.

Ultimately consumers should ensure (as a condition of purchase) what they are buying is the high performance (not the premature February 2012 "final" version) April 2012 version.

Now that the design is perfected, BenQ should sell the projector to Apple at a loss.
Reply
Reply
post #946 of 3452
4/13/12 at 4:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frvega2000 View Post

Now that I received my TrueDepth 3D glasses, I've been able to break-in my W7000. I was able to get the full 2.40:1 3D image, using the stretch feature on my Oppo player, instead of the W7000. Beautiful!!!! I am so happy with the 3D image on this unit.

However, it appears that i have a problem with the Dynamic Black (DB) function when watching 3D movies on my unit. On any given scene, the image goes from Bright to Dark and then Bright again. When I set DB to OFF, the image is just Dark. When I set it back to ON, once again the image goes from a fantastic bright to a dark image, intermittently .... not just when the scene changes, but on the same scene image as well. Has anyone experienced this? Do I need to change my settings? I e-mailed BenQ with a video and am hoping to hear from them tomorrow. Since this is a refurb W7000, I am thinking it is a defective unit. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I had the same problem with my 3rd W7000 on the weekend while watching Avatar. It also is a refurb. I since have watched 3 more 3d movie and that effect has not shown up again. The only reason I can think of is that I had the PJ going for about 4hrs before I put in Avatar. I just bought Rio yesterday and I will try and duplicate the 4hrs of TV before I put it on.
Reply
Reply
post #947 of 3452
4/13/12 at 5:19am
Thread Starter 
I was up way too late going through a number of movies. I do believe the issue was affecting 3D as well as it also appears sharper now after the firmware update.

I didn't have any issues going back and forth between 2D and 3D, it switches relatively quick, same as any of my other 3D projectors. DI and FI are also working fine as they were before. This weekend I'm going to give it a full calibration and make sure nothing was touched with the CMS. The CMS in this projector is straight-forward to use, I was able to calibrate it easily last time to D65 / R709.

BTW, this is just a firmware update, there were no hardware modifications done to the projector. This projector was made in December, 2011. Once the final firmware is approved, I'm sure BenQ will work with any current owners to get it updated quickly. As far as new purchases, I would recommend getting in touch with your favorite AVS sales rep since their stock will be updated before shipping out any W7000's to new customers.

it's going to take me a few days to go through the projector, but initial impressions are quite positive.
Reply
Reply
post #948 of 3452
4/13/12 at 5:31am
Thank you Zombie for all the hard works. I think that BenQ should pay you.
Reply
Reply
post #949 of 3452
4/13/12 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctn View Post

Thank you Zombie for all the hard works. I think that BenQ should pay you.

I second the motion on Benq paying Zombie. Thanks Jason for all your hard work.
Reply
Reply
post #950 of 3452
4/13/12 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I was up way too late going through a number of movies. I do believe the issue was affecting 3D as well as it also appears sharper now after the firmware update.

I didn't have any issues going back and forth between 2D and 3D, it switches relatively quick, same as any of my other 3D projectors. DI and FI are also working fine as they were before. This weekend I'm going to give it a full calibration and make sure nothing was touched with the CMS. The CMS in this projector is straight-forward to use, I was able to calibrate it easily last time to D65 / R709.

BTW, this is just a firmware update, there were no hardware modifications done to the projector. This projector was made in December, 2011. Once the final firmware is approved, I'm sure BenQ will work with any current owners to get it updated quickly. As far as new purchases, I would recommend getting in touch with your favorite AVS sales rep since their stock will be updated before shipping out any W7000's to new customers.

it's going to take me a few days to go through the projector, but initial impressions are quite positive.

Did you do the calibration in User mode, or in ISF mode? I found similar results in each, though in both cases I found it impossible to get the DeltaC and DeltaH both perfect. I could get a very low dE overall for all colors, and the Luminance could be perfect, but once either Hue or Saturation got low enough, lowering one any more made the other rise, so you had to accept it being off in one or the other a bit.

I usually am more sensitive to Hue errors than the Saturation issue, and the overall dE values were very good in the end. I attached the QuickView of the finished results with both User and ISF modes. I might go back and work at it some more once I get it updated. The gamma looks off on the ISF one, but that's since the graph didn't want to adjust and it was actually much closer than that.
LL
LL
LL
LL
Reply
Reply
post #951 of 3452
4/13/12 at 7:28am
Nice to see that there's some issues that can be fixed with a firmware update alone.

Any changes to the black levels with the new firmware?
Reply
Reply
post #952 of 3452
4/13/12 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I was up way too late going through a number of movies. I do believe the issue was affecting 3D as well as it also appears sharper now after the firmware update.

Proof once again, that you don't know better until you've seen (or heard) it!
The extra natural sharpness should now approach the Mitsubishi 7800 in 2D. Pretty exciting indeed.
Thanks for your excellent reporting.
Lets hope Art also gets his sample updated and the one being sent to Home Theater Magazine for Kris Deering to review. Then everyone will be on the same page. Yes!
Reply
Reply
post #953 of 3452
4/13/12 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Lets hope Art also gets his sample updated and the one being sent to Home Theater Magazine for Kris Deering to review. Then everyone will be on the same page. Yes!

Kris's sample is being updated, and I'm guessing mine will as well once I talk to them today.
Reply
Reply
post #954 of 3452
4/13/12 at 8:06am
Thread Starter 
I'm a little disappointed that some of the professional reviewers missed this issue on both the W7000 and the Acer 9500. How did they both get positive reviews from PC and PR? Both sites could have helped influence the manufacturers to find a solution quicker than this took.

The first thing I do when evaluating a projector is to check the single pixel test to make sure there aren't any issues or noticeable convergence problems. This is all it would have taken to set off the alarms that something wasn't right with 1:1 mapping in HDMI.

I've been saving Hugo until this was fixed, hopefully I'll get some time to watch it this weekend after I calibrate it.

edit: the firmware is still a beta - outside of reviewers looking for the update, I would wait before contacting BenQ to send back your W7000's.. there's still a number of items that have to validated.
Reply
Reply
post #955 of 3452
4/13/12 at 8:43am
One of the first things I do is set the Sharpness using Spears and Munsil, and then check the overscan/pixel cropping pattern. Both of those have fine, 1 pixel lines that showed this issue pretty easily. Not sure how it got past them at the other sites but it did.

Have you calibrated the 3D mode yet? When watching Hugo 3D (uncalibrated) I enabled Brilliant Color and there was a spot in the first 10 minutes where the color of a wall changed 2-3 times while looking at it in 3D. I'm going to need to go back and calibrate and see if that can be fixed, but you could take a look at 3D both with and without Brilliant Color and see if you see the issue. I'll grab a time stamp for it this weekend.
Reply
Reply
post #956 of 3452
4/13/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

I had the same problem with my 3rd W7000 on the weekend while watching Avatar. It also is a refurb. I since have watched 3 more 3d movie and that effect has not shown up again. The only reason I can think of is that I had the PJ going for about 4hrs before I put in Avatar. I just bought Rio yesterday and I will try and duplicate the 4hrs of TV before I put it on.

Since I haven't seen others with this problem, I'm going to assume these are isolated cases. Especially with the fantastic testing that is being done by some members. In my case, I had the projector on for much less than an hour when it started. I tried multiple 3D movies and the same thing happened. Then the clincher was when I started to watch my 2D Game if Thrones and the same damned thing started to happen. I'll be talking to BQ today.
Reply
Reply
post #957 of 3452
4/13/12 at 9:04am
Smackrabbit, why are you calibrating the BenQ to gamma 2.4?
Reply
Reply
post #958 of 3452
4/13/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frvega2000 View Post

Since I haven't seen others with this problem, I'm going to assume these are isolated cases. Especially with the fantastic testing that is being done by some members. In my case, I had the projector on for much less than an hour when it started. I tried multiple 3D movies and the same thing happened. Then the clincher was when I started to watch my 2D Game if Thrones and the same damned thing started to happen. I'll be talking to BQ today.

For anyone experiencing this intermittent bright/dark/bright problem, I spoke to BQ today. They told me that it is a 1.00 firmware problem that they have seen before. They will be overnighting me a replacement with an updated firmware. When the Beta firmware becomes available, according to BQ, customers will be able to ship units for the update, free of charge. Hard to believe that the image will get better! Good times!
Reply
Reply
post #959 of 3452
4/13/12 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Smackrabbit, why are you calibrating the BenQ to gamma 2.4?

I have a completely dark theater room and prefer 2.4 to 2.2 in it. I often target both though going forward I will use Rec. 1886 once CalMan or ChromaPure support it.
Reply
Reply
post #960 of 3452
4/13/12 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How did they both get positive reviews from PC and PR?

It's because they are reviewing so many projectors so fast. Look at all those business projectors they are reviewing at the same time, they don't run very many technical test patterns, they mostly just set them up and test them by watching.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official BenQ W7000 Owners Thread