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Official 4:4:4 / Chroma Subsampling Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 262
3/1/12 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

Audio is not part of the original DVI spec......hence why it cannot handle audio.....

It can. My Geforce passes audio through DVI-HDMI to an LK450 just fine.
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post #122 of 262
3/1/12 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

Audio is not part of the original DVI spec......hence why it cannot handle audio.....

Not true at all, there are many video cards (and have been for years) that will provide audio through DVI with the proper DVI to HDMI adapter. I own several cards that do this, it has mainly been an ATi feature.

Jason
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post #123 of 262
3/5/12 at 7:04pm
Thanks so much for putting this thread together. Pleased to say my LG 32LK450 and my Vizio M260MV are both compatible when using a DVI --> HDMI adapter or VGA cables. Sorry the pictures aren't better, but you can at least see the evidence. LG is a VA, non-IPS panel (guess I am a lottery loser)

LG using DVI--> HDMI and renaming HDMI 1 to 'PC'. (I know the LK450 was already confirmed, this is just confirming another size)


Vizio M260MV using DVI-->HDMI (no renaming of input)


LG When using HDMI-->HDMI and renaming HDMI 1 to 'PC'.
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post #124 of 262
3/6/12 at 3:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshZH View Post

It can. My Geforce passes audio through DVI-HDMI to an LK450 just fine.

Again, you cannot pass audio through DVI hence the need for HDMI plug on the other end....

Why do you think older DVI monitors with speakers ran a seperate audio cable?
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post #125 of 262
3/6/12 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Not true at all, there are many video cards (and have been for years) that will provide audio through DVI with the proper DVI to HDMI adapter. I own several cards that do this, it has mainly been an ATi feature.

Jason

repeating something that is not true will not make it true............

Since the DVI specification does not support audio transport, an interoperability problem arises when an HDMI-source drives a legacy DVI display (such as a PC monitor), or conversely, when a DVI source drives an HDMI display. While HDMI and DVI compliance rules ensure that a DVI video connection can be successfully negotiated and established (via a mutually supported display mode), the audio signal must still be transported through means outside of the DVI connection. Typically, an HDMI-equipped source will provide additional outputs for audio, such as line-level analog and SPDIF, which provide a baseline audio program (such as stereo PCM). Likewise, when displaying video from an HDMI jack, an HDMI-equipped display may support alternate audio sourcing from a separate pair of analog-audio inputs. Provision for any of these compatibility mechanisms is down to the manufacturer; they are not specified by HDMI. By 2010 nearly all HDMI-equipped sources (set-top and media-extender boxes, Blu-ray and DVD players, and PCs) provided separate analog audio outputs, and many HDMI-equipped televisions supported alternate-audio input when sourcing video from an HDMI input.

There are consumer adapters available to place between a DVI source and HDMI device which can insert a separate audio signal into an HDMI TMDS data stream.[113] DVI connectors on PC video cards have also been increasingly able to take advantage of HDMI features such as audio output.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Co...ility_with_DVI

HDMI supports audio DVI does not.....

/subject

The video card can only pass audio over DVI when there is a HDMI device at the other end
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post #126 of 262
3/6/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

Again, you cannot pass audio through DVI hence the need for HDMI plug on the other end....

Why do you think older DVI monitors with speakers ran a seperate audio cable?

You didn't mention anything about "need for HDMI plug on the other end..." in your reply, hence my remark. People may think there's no way to pass audio through DVI output, and that's not true.

So try to clarify your posts before going "all educational".
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post #127 of 262
3/7/12 at 11:05am
Sceptre X405BV-FHD 40" LCD on sale at Walmart, free shipping, $299. If you google "X405BV-FHD 4:4:4" you can see where text pops up claiming that the set does support 4:4:4, but, I cannot get to the link. Since Sceptre has a huge PC display presence, I tend to believe the text. Anyone else with any more info on this set. Does it support proper 4:4:4 and especially, latency.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-40...er=Es5Ekr9eEBk
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post #128 of 262
3/7/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

repeating something that is not true will not make it true............

Since the DVI specification does not support audio transport, an interoperability problem arises when an HDMI-source drives a legacy DVI display (such as a PC monitor), or conversely, when a DVI source drives an HDMI display. While HDMI and DVI compliance rules ensure that a DVI video connection can be successfully negotiated and established (via a mutually supported display mode), the audio signal must still be transported through means outside of the DVI connection. Typically, an HDMI-equipped source will provide additional outputs for audio, such as line-level analog and SPDIF, which provide a baseline audio program (such as stereo PCM). Likewise, when displaying video from an HDMI jack, an HDMI-equipped display may support alternate audio sourcing from a separate pair of analog-audio inputs. Provision for any of these compatibility mechanisms is down to the manufacturer; they are not specified by HDMI. By 2010 nearly all HDMI-equipped sources (set-top and media-extender boxes, Blu-ray and DVD players, and PCs) provided separate analog audio outputs, and many HDMI-equipped televisions supported alternate-audio input when sourcing video from an HDMI input.

There are consumer adapters available to place between a DVI source and HDMI device which can insert a separate audio signal into an HDMI TMDS data stream.[113] DVI connectors on PC video cards have also been increasingly able to take advantage of HDMI features such as audio output.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Co...ility_with_DVI

HDMI supports audio DVI does not.....

/subject

The video card can only pass audio over DVI when there is a HDMI device at the other end


Nobody claimed DVI to DVI audio, you went right past the context of this thread and I don't recall anyone here trying to pass audio over a DVI -> DVI cable.

Jason
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post #129 of 262
3/16/12 at 7:33am
Hello guys.
I have a few questions about LCD TV as a PC monitor / pixels / clarity / fonts / etc
Colors are looking great.But the only think i dont like is the clarity of the text / pixels.
They look crap, compared to monitor ....
My lcd tv is LG 32LK430

I read some stuff about 4:4:4
Those lcd tv´s with 4:4:4 reduction have a much better clarity on the / letter / text / on websites ??
Please help me with some advices. I love my lcd tv, and i wanna keep it as my pc monitor.
Thanks in advance.
LL
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post #130 of 262
3/25/12 at 1:55am
My 32LK450 supports 4:4:4 chroma over dvi-hdmi cable only when the hdmi is relabeled as PC. Using RGB cable it supports 4:4:4 chroma without relabeling. Does anyone else have the same issue?

@bluekidd: If you are using a hdmi-dvi cable then try relabeling the HDMI(1 2 or 3) input port to "PC". It worked for me. If you are using hdmi-hdmi cable then you can try the EDID override fix and see if it works. If it doesn't work then you need to either use a dvi-hdmi cable or a vga cable.
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post #131 of 262
3/25/12 at 9:52am
Quick question: is 4:4:4 chroma subsampling relevant to the RGB color space too or just YCbCr? I'm asking about a DVI or HDMI connection, not VGA.
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post #132 of 262
3/25/12 at 10:08am
My Samsung UN55D7000 over hdmi(dvi) input 1, changed name to PC on source, dvi out from htpc, via 'monoprice' dvi/hdmi cable passed every test found here........
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post #133 of 262
3/25/12 at 7:38pm
Problem resolved. My 32lk450 now passes chroma test when input is set to anything via dvi-hdmi cable. I just enabled just scan(under aspect ratio) in picture settings and it resolved the issue. Thanks JoshZH.
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post #134 of 262
3/25/12 at 8:38pm
I see a lot of dvi to hdmi talk. Does Mini hdmi to hdmi work with 4:4:4 ? That's how my video card connects to tv.
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post #135 of 262
3/25/12 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdsnapBryan View Post

I see a lot of dvi to hdmi talk. Does Mini hdmi to hdmi work with 4:4:4 ? That's how my video card connects to tv.

4:4:4 from HDMI>HDMI seems to be pretty rare on TVs. Being mini or micro shouldn't cause any further complications than HDMI>HDMI would as they are just smaller and have a different pinout. You'll need to try and locate a TV that can do 4:4:4 over HDMI>HDMI though. Is that the only connection you have on the video out?
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post #136 of 262
3/25/12 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_J View Post


4:4:4 from HDMI>HDMI seems to be pretty rare on TVs. Being mini or micro shouldn't cause any further complications than HDMI>HDMI would as they are just smaller and have a different pinout. You'll need to try and locate a TV that can do 4:4:4 over HDMI>HDMI though. Is that the only connection you have on the video out?

Hey racer. I would be using a LG. I can do Dvi to hdmi if thats the best way.
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post #137 of 262
3/25/12 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdsnapBryan View Post

Hey racer. I would be using a LG. I can do Dvi to hdmi if thats the best way.

It's by far one of the most hassle free ways and I don't think anyone has managed to get 4:4:4 via HDMI>HDMI on an LG yet. I would personally use DVI>HDMI simply because it's known to work and you're not going to get a degradation in quality from it. HDMI is touted as the end all be all of digital signals (or was till display port came along) but, DVI can still do higher resolutions than HDMI (ignoring HDMI 1.3) and I don't hear anyone complaining about quality on their 2560x1440 monitors via dual link DVI>dual link DVI. HDMI was simply the format that "caught on" for electronics so that's what stuff migrated to.

Just remember that if you're on a Nvidia card, you may need to do an EDID override (which is pretty simple and free). On both AMD/ATi and Nvidia, you'll need to make sure your video card control panel isn't trying to overscan/undersdscan the image though this tends to be more of an issue with AMD/ATi.
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post #138 of 262
3/26/12 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narasimhan View Post

My 32LK450 supports 4:4:4 chroma over dvi-hdmi cable only when the hdmi is relabeled as PC. Using RGB cable it supports 4:4:4 chroma without relabeling. Does anyone else have the same issue?

@bluekidd: If you are using a hdmi-dvi cable then try relabeling the HDMI(1 2 or 3) input port to "PC". It worked for me. If you are using hdmi-hdmi cable then you can try the EDID override fix and see if it works. If it doesn't work then you need to either use a dvi-hdmi cable or a vga cable.

I did as you said. Looks much better now but i cannot access some features on the menu TV, like : sharpness / tint / colours and on Advanced Control i can only access 2 functions ( Black Level / Gamma )
I wish i could use Sharpness when HDMI is relabeling as PC.
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post #139 of 262
3/26/12 at 9:34am
@bluekidd: Did you see my other post. I have said that
Quote:


Problem resolved. My 32lk450 now passes chroma test when input is set to anything via dvi-hdmi cable. I just enabled just scan(under aspect ratio) in picture settings and it resolved the issue. Thanks JoshZH.

So you don't actually need PC mode. All you need to do is set aspect ratio as just scan and you can play with sharpness. And also make sure that you test(read the very 1st post of this thread on how to test) 4:4:4 chroma. There is a world of difference between 4:4:4 and non 4:4:4.
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post #140 of 262
3/26/12 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by narasimhan View Post

@bluekidd: Did you see my other post. I have said that


So you don't actually need PC mode. All you need to do is set aspect ratio as just scan and you can play with sharpness. And also make sure that you test(read the very 1st post of this thread on how to test) 4:4:4 chroma. There is a world of difference between 4:4:4 and non 4:4:4.

Without pc mode, text looks horrible. If i have HDMI as pc mode, text looks 100 times better, but as i said, i cannot access sharpness.
Yes, i did the 4:4:4 chroma test, it seems to be okay.
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post #141 of 262
4/4/12 at 8:30am
Hey guys.

It looks like the upcoming Panasonic WT50 models indeed have 4:4:4 support!

This screenshot is taken from official Panasonic 55" TC-L55WT50 operating manual.

Unfortunately, DT50 (on the left) and lower end models will probably end up being no better than previous Panasonic TVs in this regard.

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post #142 of 262
4/24/12 at 12:17pm
Can anyone verify if the Samsung 32EH5000 has 4:4:4 support as I intend to get that TV for a monitor use.

I am using an nvidia graphics card and I didnt install the HD audio driver, should I be able to get 4:4:4 support if the set does support it ?

A mention of DVI to HDMI cable should properly set 4:4:4 as compared to HDMI to HDMI, I have a converter that which has a DVI(male)-HDMI(female) I would assume this also works well ?
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post #143 of 262
4/26/12 at 6:01am
Samsung 32EH5000 passes the 4:4:4 color test, using "PC" or "DVI-PC" mode, "DVI" mode fails in 4:4:4, I dont know whats the difference between PC and DVI-PC but the tv does not perform a 'soft reset' when switching between both, it only does it when you go to the DVI mode or any other modes.
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post #144 of 262
4/26/12 at 8:37am
pandemonium can you make an imput lag test of EH5000? i am also interested in buying it as a pc monitor
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post #145 of 262
4/26/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apoklyps3 View Post

pandemonium can you make an imput lag test of EH5000? i am also interested in buying it as a pc monitor

Can you point me to the correct or preferred timer app for that, I'll try to see if my very old digital camera can capture the numbers. The EH6000 did have something a 32ms or something when someone tested it. For me no noticeable input lag that really stands out.
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post #146 of 262
4/26/12 at 9:34am
http://tft.vanity.dk/

try this. but any other timer you can find shoud be fine, as long as you connect the tv to the pc by using a hdmi connection that has been renamed as "PC" and you do the test in 1080p mode.
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post #147 of 262
4/26/12 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apoklyps3 View Post

http://tft.vanity.dk/

try this. but any other timer you can find shoud be fine, as long as you connect the tv to the pc by using a hdmi connection that has been renamed as "PC" and you do the test in 1080p mode.

I'll try to see if I can do it tomorrow, if there is an input lag then its pretty low as I cant notice it in FPS games. Im even doing better with the bigger screen!

EDIT:

My older TN monitor is only 1680x1050 so Im not sure how valid that would be for input latency testing.
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post #148 of 262
4/26/12 at 9:18pm
do it anyway. too bad you don't have a CRT for testing.
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post #149 of 262
4/27/12 at 2:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apoklyps3 View Post

do it anyway. too bad you don't have a CRT for testing.

Hehe, I dont go looking for things like this but I understand this is very important for others especially in competitive FPS games. Havent found the time yet will test soon.

EDIT:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21957905

Placed the Input lag test there, 27-30ms

EDIT2:

4:4:4 on the 32EH5000 using a HDMI to HDMI cable, no audio passed through as it is done by my speakers connected to a PC. The TV also supports 1-255 full range colors, instead of the common 16-235.

EDIT3:

Tried HDMI + Audio and it still keeps 4:4:4!

EDIT4:

I noticed some sort of yellow pixel artifact in certain text scenarios, this also happens on my TN monitor.. turning off Clear Type resolves this issue, is there a way to fix this with clear type? Its the 4th picture.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #150 of 262
4/29/12 at 8:37pm
thanks alot. i'll have to test my Samsung 32a656 replicating your method to see if it's in my range of input lag taste hehe . i don't know abou the text, probabily an extra unneeded processing.
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