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using a 300ohm to 75 ohm balun on 300ohm outdoor antennas

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
I have a rather interesting scenario I had with a 300 to 75 ohm balun. I hooked them up to my new antennas (I now use separate VHF & UHF antennas), & on the UHF antenna, I some how hooked it up wrong. The line that typically goes on the left terminal was hooked to the right side, & the right line on the left side. Anyway, the full power stations weren't affected by this (except for WCPX on RF 43, & pixelated on & off at different times, but were short), but certain low power stations were affected by this. I already have enough trouble getting WWME-LD, due to a sharp null toward Indiana (the null was set to protect then WZZM on RF 39, who went back to 13). I lost them, but translator W25DW-D on RF 25 actually improved. Since fixing this (left line on the left termainal & right line on the right terminal), WWME-LD comes back in, while W25DW-D pixelates (they pixelated with the old combo antenna too).

Could anyone explain why would hooking up a balun in reverse affect certain channels? I did include my TV fool chart, but don't believe that's really necessary. I should say that the VHF side wasn't affected, as I only have 3 VHF channels in Chicago (WBBM-TV on RF 12, WLS-TV on RF 7 (for now), & WOCK-CD on RF 4 (reason I bought the Antennacraft CS600 instead of the Y5-7-13)), & I had that hooked up properly.

I personally could care less about W25DW-D, but my mom discovered them by accident when flipping channels, & discovered HSN. She wants the channel, while I don't. I want WWME-LD, because of Bounce on 23.2. To my knowledge, those were the only 2 stations that were affected by the balun being hooked up wrong to my Winegard HD9032 UHF antenna.
post #2 of 9
I didn't know there was a right and a wrong way to hook them up.

My first thought would be phasing. When connected one way, the current flows one way though one winding of a transformer and goes to the center conductor, while when connected the other way the current flows in the opposite direction, through a different winding of a different transformer and goes to the shield (it also goes through a couple of other windings of transformers and ends up at the center conductor of the coax).

Are the baluns UHF/VHF ones? Many the ones that have 300-ohm twin lead coming out of them only go to 300MHz.
LL
post #3 of 9
Are you feeding the two antennas in to a simple splitter, or in to a combiner that has separate VHF and UHF (filtered) inputs.
If it's just a splitter, you are getting an out-of-phase combination from the two antennas. That can cause some strange effects, including notching out of certain channels, and some weird directional patterns.
You need a frequency-selective combiner, or separate VHF/UHF filters on the input to the splitter (which, effectively, makes it a combiner.)
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Are the baluns UHF/VHF ones? Many the ones that have 300-ohm twin lead coming out of them only go to 300MHz.

A lot of those were designed to allow FM dipole antennas to be connected to the receiver's 75 ohm input. I remember discovering that a Radio Shack push on balun that had two terminal screws for the 300 ohm side connection severely attenuated UHF. I don't know if their current model has UHF frequency response or not

Notice that in Ed's diagram, there is no electrical path isolation between the input and output. There are several architectures of balun design, but because they inexpensive, consumer items, the manufacturers and suppliers do not provide us with internal diagrams or reliable specs.
post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
The antennas are hooked up to an RCA pre-amplifier (one I've owned for a little over a year, but only recently hooked separate antennas to the unit). The pre-amp is the combiner, with the switch set to separate (used to be set to common for my old antenna). For the baluns, I didn't know any of them were frequncy specific (I knew combiners/splitters were). The ones I bought were bought at Menards for outdoor use, & under the Philips name.

I was trying to combine my other Winegard antenna to get South Bend stations, but it severely affected my Chicago stations, & had to back off from that for now. But somehow, after I undid the combining, I was rehooking up the baluns, because it was too difficult to just change the cable with the antenna hanging too far from the pole. When I hooked up the balun again for the antenna pointed at Chicago (left wire on the right terminal & right right on the left terminal), I no longer got WWME-LD, but I received a much better picture of W25DW-D. Since correcting the connections, I get WWME-LD again, but not as clear of a picture of W25DW-D (could care less as I don't care for HSN).

While off-subject, but based on the TV fool report I provided, I don't get most of those low power stations listed, despite TV fool saying that there's coverage over my area, & strong enough to receive. The only low power stations I get with both my current UHF antenna, & the old Philips all channel combo antenna are: WWME-LD on RF39 & W25DW-D on RF 25 with a pre-amp, & WDCI-LD on RF 30 & WMEU-LD on RF 32 without pre-amp. WOCK-CD is the only low power VHF, & I can only get them with a pre-amp, or I don't get them at all. WEDE-CA & WOCH-CA have not converted to digital yet, & are simulcasted on other digital stations (WEDE-CA simulcasted on WJYS 62.2 & WOCH-CA simulcasted on WOCK-CD 13.2). WCHU on RF 33 has never come in for me with or without a pre-amp (don't care, but their request for RF 28 has me concerned, that I won't get WSJV anymore).
post #6 of 9
I would not count on the physical appearance of the baluns to tell me what polarity they are. Best bet would be to buy two identical baluns (same manufacturer and model) and hook them both to a single antenna, with the outputs fed in to a splitter (turned backwards, as a combiner). Then, try swapping the twin-lead connectors back and forth, to see which gives the most signal (which one is "additive").

A dab of paint, or some colored tape can be used to mark one wire on each, for future reference.

Of course, a TV RF Analyzer would be the easiest...if you have one. Most don't.

In the case of your preamp, if there are two antennas functioning on the same band (say, a UHF antenna to the UHF input, and a combo VHF+UHF antenna hooked to the VHF input), there might be enough signal to bleed through. That's why there is interaction. You could use a filter to block the second signal, or use only one input of a selective (diplexer) combiner, being sure to put a terminator on the unused band's input.
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
When I originally used the pre-amp, I only had the combo antenna hooked to it, and the switch set to common. When I bought the Winegard HD9032 UHF antenna (this antenna also has terminals to combine a VHF antenna, but not used), & the Antennacraft CS600, I had to change it to separate in order to combine both antennas. So both ports are now used, whereas with the old antenna, just the UHF/Combo port was used. No way I can cap any unused ports. Not sure if anything can be done about the VHF terminals on the Winegard antenna, since they're 300ohm, & yes I have the balun hooked to the correct set of terminals. The VHF terminals on this antenna are on top, & the UHF terminals are on the bottom.

For the baluns, they're all the same that I bought. If I want something other than Philips, then I either have to go to Radio Shack, or order them online, because Philips is the common brand at Menards & Lowes (Home Depot in my area doesn't sell baluns at all), & none of the discount department stores in my area sell them at all (Kmart, Walmart, Target, & Meijer). The next time I buy baluns, I'll remember to hook the left line to the left terminal, & the right line to the right terminal. Never thought reversing the connections could change what I can get.
post #8 of 9
There can't really be a right way and a wrong way to connect the antenna to the balun, because dipole elements or the phasing couplings are mechanically and electrically symmetrical
post #9 of 9
The only place it matters is, when stacking multiple antennas.
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