JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 35

Thanx for the response coderguy, i'm projecting on a 16/9 daylite hp 2.8 but really want to try 2.45....even if it's just onto the wall for now. The sony does seem to be a great deal, and thats with the glasses and emitter. I would have to fork over for an extra year warranty as it only comes with 1year. I have 2 weeks to decide.

I did some 3D glasses comparison shots for the JVC Ghosting Discussion thread and thought that once I had the gear out (oo-er) I might just as well shoot some for the Epson 9000.

Here's the first one, approx. 20 minutes after power-up with glasses b'ness set to medium:



The second one, approx. 40 minutes after power-up with glasses b'ness set to low:



Shots were taken using the same exposure, shutter speed, F-stop and white balance set to 7100K in the camera. Epson 9000 was at factory default 3D Cinema preset. Photoshop was used only for cropping. Oh, and if you're wondering about the fluctuating sharpness... I had to use a tiny and very wobbly GorillaPod tripod for these shots. Also, I'm Mr. Butterfingers.

Nice shots of ghosting with the Epson. Pteittinen, how noticeable is the ghosting for you while watching a movie? This amount of ghosting is certainly less than the JVCs, but the DLPs are in a totally different league it would seem. I could live with the ghosting in Zombie's Epson photos, but maybe not with what I'm seeing here. I'm going to the GTA next week to demo the Epson for myself and I'm taking some 3D BD discs, including River at Risk. It's amazing how much variation there is with ghosting between units or set ups! The only constant seems to be DLP = no visible ghosting (except for the Mits. 7800, which is now off my list).

For the most part practically unnoticeable. It's only in tough scenes like that one where it kinda leaps out at you.

If this is "leaping out at you" then how do would you describe the ghosting with the JVCs? A kick in the groin?

I think it's the same with the X70: the crosstalk only becomes really noticeable during tough scenes. I watched The Three Musketeers last week on my soon-departing X70 and the total time I was aware of crosstalk was probably less than 20 seconds in a 110-minute movie. OK, sure, it would be nice not to notice crosstalk at all but if you put things in perspective...

The shot might well be overexposed as I used the exact same settings as I did for the 2nd batch of JVC photos (and with JVC being dimmer than Epson...) - but to my eyes the ghost looks very much like it does in the photos, i.e. clearly noticeable.

The Epson just got much less interesting for 3d IMO Looks like there is some major sample variance with this machine as well.

I think I am going to lose my mind trying to pick a projector.

I hear ya; I'm supposed to recommend a projector to a friend. It's quite the dilemma.

You just did!

I think we need to nip this in the bud and stop calling whatever JVC is doing "4K". It's not 4K.


That's a RED One in the photo; I recognize it because I have one. I wish I had Angenieux lenses like they do, too. I bet that glass costs $10K easy.

I would think your decision would be easy, since urblind. It just doesn't matter.

I completely understand though I think I'm done wondering.

I'm pretty sure I'm going with the BenQ, though, I'm sure now that I type this, everyones W7000 will begin to spontaneously combust and I will once again be left pondering! I even thought about ditching 3D altogether and going with something like the W6000 but thats just a money thing since the 40 seems to be worth about $20.00...

Game lag, as a former game dev I'm supposed to care about this but in my defense all of the projectors in this shootout are an improvement over the RS40 which I believe is 100ms+ so it isn't like I'd be going backwards and I'm an action adventure/card/THIRD person shooter kinda guy as opposed to COD/BF3 so my brain can typically adjust even to Mario and Rayman Origins platform gaming jump-timings. I want to say the only reason I'm not going the Sony route is due to no DC trigger and "retail" pricing I have seen which is more even after I've added three pair of glasses to my BenQ cart (though I'm ordering from AVS I wanted to get an idea of "all in").

I can live with the ghosting in Zombie's photo, no problem since I can't really see it on my computer monitor -- if I can't see it when I demo the 5010 and 6010 projectors at the end of this week then I can live with it. I'll be looking at this scene for sure. Why doesn't Benq solve my problem and fix the W7000?

Harry meets Dumbledore in limbo at the end of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II is apparently full of ghosting -- I wouldn't know since my DLP cruises through this scene completely oblivious to any problems.

I would personally not pick a projector which offers DLP Link as the only means of syncing with 3D glasses.

My 2 cents, for someone that has a 5010 sitting here... The 3D on the 5010 is the best I've seen. I watched some tough ghoster movies (movies that I could not watch on the JVC 40) and thought it was exceptionally good.

There is nothing on the 5010 I have observed that looks remotely like what Petri is showing with his 9000. Mine is very much like Jason's machine where ghosting is virtually imperceptible.

In the Epson glasses vs. MonsterVision (Bit Cauldron) comparison, the Epsons look sharp with no noticeable ghosting and have the best 3D depth, whereas the MV3Ds seem to not tune out absolutely all the visible (real to the eye) ghosting. However the MV3Ds are more comfortable, fit small heads a lot better and still very good and usable. After upgrading the MV3D firmware to the latest from MV and doing a factory reset on the RF transmitter, the best tuning I found was simply the factory setting minus 1 click on the duty cycle.

On the JVC 40, 3D was a bit hit or miss. The IMAX Spacestation (like RE-A) was one of those movies I found unwatchable, but looked super on the Epson. There are a lot of stark contrasts in this movie that I stop-framed to compare the glasses. To note, this movie does have some flaws of its own where the 3D suddenly goes wonky... caused by one camera lens not capturing an object (mostly occurs when they shoot out a portal, or a very near object is missed by one lens. you can tell if you close one eye vs the other and see the object vanish completely on one side). Of course, this is not a problem with the machine itself but the movie filmography.

As far as how to describe the 2D PQ... I'd say a good analogy is LCD and LED (Epson) vs Plasma (JVC).

This is exactly the reason some are buying two projectors. I've considered the Epson 5010 as a replacement for my RS45 but every time I think about I have a feeling I'd be discontent with 2D because I already crave better black levels than the RS45 can do even though it's very good.

For those who don't have a projector already it's a tough decision. 3D is in it's infancy stages and I think for those who want one all around projector who want great black levels the choice is very limited and flawed no matter what route you go.

For me I think it's either get a cheaper DLP for 3D or practice some patience and be content with the flawed 3D I have now and see what next year brings. I just wish Sony could get the native contrast that JVC could without the auto irish ()!

It might, provided the projector has a DVI input and is compatible with Nvidia's 120Hz frame sequential output. I remember reading that Acer 9500 should work. No idea of BenQ.

Petri, I really appreciate your no nonsense approach. Also, thank you for the zoomed in shots of the ghosting, its easier to see it that way. I think the Epson is the less objectionable of the two with the shade of the ghosting, but I would still prefer ghostless like DLP.

Regarding the Xpand 104 glasses, you mentioned they can sync with Nvidia emitter. I'm using an Acer H5360 with the Nvidia kit, but it would be nice to buy any extra pairs for guests that will work with any projector coming out in the future. Do you know if the 104s can indeed sync with the Nvidia emitter, or is this still untested?

I guess that is the difference between staring at a tech spec vs actually viewing something IRL.

Nvidia support is mentioned in X104 user guide. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Cool! They will be the first universal glasses to work with the Nvidia emitter. Thanks

I'm actually trying to test them in action right now. The last time I powered my Nvidia 3D Vision PC up it worked flawlessly. Now? No way, no how. Grahhhh!

edit: It's alive! Both X104 and Volfoni ActivEyes universal glasses work with the Nvidia IR emitter.

Awesome

Fantastic news! Thanks for the update. Never knew about the Volfoni glasses, don't think we can get them here, but I'll check.