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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 76

post #2251 of 3271
3/2/12 at 6:40am
Thread Starter 
my issue with the 900b has nothing to do with the performance of my NAS, it performs excellent and streams 3D BD ISO to my MCE7 system without issue. The Linux based media devices have average SMB performance built it, plain and simple.

I have several storage arrays and run them with either Perc 6e or H800 controllers, my disk throughput has enterprise level performance.

now we're getting off topic, Joseph send me a PM if you want more details about the 900b.
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post #2252 of 3271
3/2/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
If the movies are on the local hard drive, they play back great.

Yup, same here with my Himedia 900A. If I attach a hard drive directly to the 900A (via a flat SATA cable) then 3D plays perfectly, but if I connect the very same hard drive via an external USB enclosure, then I get skipping/stuttering, and the same goes for streaming from either a Windows or Linux based server.
Quote:
Since these are linux devices, it's not surprising that their windows based SMB protocols aren't the best.

This is simply bad Linux programming on Himedia's part. SageTV used the older version of the main chip (I forgot the number), used a 100mb NIC, and achieved perfect USB and network streaming of 2D material on BOTH Windows and Linux servers. Himedia can't get it right even on 2D material using a 1 gb NIC and connected to a Linux server. It's too bad that SageTV was bought out by Google and then shelved, as they were, to my knowledge, the only ones to get it right... At least the Himedia unit works great with a local drive, so as long as I store all of my 3D stuff on that drive, then I am happy enough. I still have the SageTV HD300 for everything else...
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post #2253 of 3271
3/2/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

LOL . Time to start the countdown to the 2012/12 line or projectors!



Well you are only 4-5 months away from Sony's replacement for the HW30 now. Maybe it will be good enough to replace the JVC in 2D as well. BTW, I used to love playing SSX Tricky and SSX3 years ago on the original Xbox.


I would have a HW30 if it had the throw range and motorized lens of the JVC. The Sony does not have enough throw in my setup and I need a motorized lens since I am doing the zoom method on my 2.35 screen.

I am already looking forward to the next round though as far as projectors go and 3d in particular. I have given up on this years models.

The new SSX has consumed me. Overall, best one to date! Amazing HT experience as well on the big screen and with the audio cranked up. Any time you land a super tricky trick, a wave of LFE engulfs you and the room! I cant think of a more intense and exciting game experience as this one! Its not without its faults, but overall this is the best SSX to date.
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post #2254 of 3271
3/2/12 at 8:06am
I bought Puss n' Boots 3D as a present for my wife's birthday. She loved the movie, nuff said on that.

Watched it on the HW30 with the provided IR glasses at Medium brightness. Saw enough live playback ghosting for it to catch my eye, so I'm pretty sure the zero tollerance people would mark the pj with a "fail" tag.

PnB 3D has plenty of dimly lit scenes, to the point where I thought about boosting the glasses brightness, but knowing the ghosting would get worse, did not. Ghosting was noticable from the opening Dreamworks moon visual throughout the movie in various shots. Setup info: center mounted pj at 15'3" throw to a 1.3 gain 110" 16:9 screen.

It is not a perfect pj (what is?!), but a decent one none the less that I am happy with. I have no complaints about the 2D picture and that ranks more important for me than the 3D.
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post #2255 of 3271
3/2/12 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by imblind View Post

Call Mark, he posted right above you.

LOL. I already talked to Mark and he did not have any in house for review and is traveling soon. I'd like to see one soon, so if anyone local in DC area has one they'd like to show off, please drop me a PM.

Thanks!
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post #2256 of 3271
3/2/12 at 11:54am
If you want fast IO for HTPC, the LSI 9260-4i hooked to a SATA or SAS backplane is insanely fast for the price. You can get them at newegg, I never tried it for HTPC only used it in servers, but it isn't expensive ($350 without write battery). It is the fastest sub $500 raid card I have ever found. It is faster than the adaptecs and Perc's in this same price range by quite a bit. I've seen it pass up 1,000 megabytes/sec with certain drive configs, but even with 4 cheap drives it can hit 500 MB/sec.

In server applications, IOPS is slightly more important than throughput generally, but in HTPC usually throughput matters more since it's really just doing 1-2 things at a time and we mainly want faster copies not faster multi-tasking of IO operations (although it doesn't hurt).
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post #2257 of 3271
3/2/12 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If the movies are on the local hard drive, they play back great.

I only need local hard drive support at the moment. So I am in.

Much thanks indeed!
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post #2258 of 3271
3/3/12 at 6:47am
Re: 3D glasses

I have the Nvidia, Epson and Sony 3D PS3 glasses. By far my favourites are the Nvidia glasses. They're very heavy-duty, comfortable, rechargeable and their charge lasts for eons. Next up are the PS3 glasses -- reasonably comfortable, light and rechargeable. The Epson glasses are all around pretty good, but they're not rechargeable so they're the last ones I'll grab.

I watched Hugo again with some friends using the acer H5360 -- very punchy image on a small 80" HP screen in a small screening room. No ghosting at all! A great 3D movie that looked great! Rather than downgrading to a Benq W7000 I think I'll buy another H5360.
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post #2259 of 3271
3/3/12 at 8:07am
Thread Starter 
I always liked the Nvidia glasses, they are comfortable and sturdy. I still prefer the tint on the MV3D's though - I wish there was a way to get them to work with the Acer.



I haven't had the time to watch Hugo yet, i'm not sure which projector to use. I'll probably use the Epson since it's hooked up and then run through some of the scenes on the W7000. I'm not having any issues with sharpness in 3D mode.
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post #2260 of 3271
3/3/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I always liked the Nvidia glasses, they are comfortable and sturdy. I still prefer the tint on the MV3D's though - I wish there was a way to get them to work with the Acer.

I wish there was a way to get the Nvidia glasses to work with the Epson and other 1080p 3D projectors. Having to buy new 3D glasses with every different projector for optimum viewing has to be holding sales back. The PS3 3D glasses are a bit of a breakthrough due to price, the ability to recharge them and the fact they work with multiple projectors.
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post #2261 of 3271
3/3/12 at 1:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I wish there was a way to get the Nvidia glasses to work with the Epson and other 1080p 3D projectors. Having to buy new 3D glasses with every different projector for optimum viewing has to be holding sales back. The PS3 3D glasses are a bit of a breakthrough due to price, the ability to recharge them and the fact they work with multiple projectors.

Have you tried the Nvidia setup with the 6010?

a brief review on the 9500. Opinions of black level are all over the place from the various reviews.

http://www.digitalversus.com/video-p...2814/test.html

On the other hand, black levels were only just acceptable, swinging between 0.63 and 0.99 cd/m², which leaves blacks looking grey. But the brightness of the whites largely evens out this problem: at 530 cd/m², they're enough to make the blacks look much darker than they really are. That leaves the contrast ratio at anywhere between 840:1 and 540:1, depending on how bright or dark the current frame is.

Viewers who notice the rainbow effect with DLP projectors will see it here. We saw bright flashes when scanning our eyes across frames with a lot of contrast, but things were much more acceptable the rest of the time.

After I get the W7000 stuff settled, I'm going to try and get my hands on the 9500 to see how it fairs against 5360. I'm not sure how it's worth $1000 over the cost of the 5360 with it's current limitations.

They are on the right track, but I'd spend another $1000 (new version street price @ 2500) if it has a faster color wheel, better lens shift and better user controls / mode settings.
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post #2262 of 3271
3/3/12 at 1:41pm
I've been very impressed with the 3d (lack of crosstalk/ghosting) with the HW30. I'm going to try Hugo 3D shortly, but have watched the Grand Canyon and the Under the Sea IMAX 3D Blu-rays.

I decided to toss in the Xbox 360 game Crysis 2, which has SbS 3D support.

Wow! Crosstalk/ghosting galore. Disappointing.

I tried adjusting everything from brightness/contrast and well as the 3D brightness, depth and in-game controls on the Xbox including depth and brightness. Nothing made it any better.

Anyone tried this game in 3D?

... Altan
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post #2263 of 3271
3/3/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I've been very impressed with the 3d (lack of crosstalk/ghosting) with the HW30. I'm going to try Hugo 3D shortly, but have watched the Grand Canyon and the Under the Sea IMAX 3D Blu-rays.

I decided to toss in the Xbox 360 game Crysis 2, which has SbS 3D support.

Wow! Crosstalk/ghosting galore. Disappointing.

I tried adjusting everything from brightness/contrast and well as the 3D brightness, depth and in-game controls on the Xbox including depth and brightness. Nothing made it any better.

Anyone tried this game in 3D?

... Altan

This is a big reason why I cant get excited about ANY of these non DLP projectors for 3d..........3d gaming. Gaming seems to be a torture test for these machines, especially when you max out the depth slider in the games that have one. How many more generations until we have ghost free 3d in non DLP for gaming? I hope sooner rather than later. My 40 and 45 are useless when it comes to 3d gaming due to extreme ghosting......its ugly!
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post #2264 of 3271
3/3/12 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Have you tried the Nvidia setup with the 6010?

a brief review on the 9500. Opinions of black level are all over the place from the various reviews.

http://www.digitalversus.com/video-p...2814/test.html

[color="RoyalBlue"][i]On the other hand, black levels were only just acceptable, swinging between 0.63 and 0.99 cd/m², which leaves blacks looking grey. But the brightness of the whites largely evens out this problem: at 530 cd/m², they're enough to make the blacks look much darker than they really are. That leaves the contrast ratio at anywhere between 840:1 and 540:1, depending on how bright or dark the current frame is.

Viewers who notice the rainbow effect with DLP projectors will see it here. We saw bright flashes when scanning our eyes across frames with a lot of contrast, but things were much more acceptable the rest of the time. After I get the W7000 stuff settled, I'm going to try and get my hands on the 9500 to see how it fairs against 5360. I'm not sure how it's worth $1000 over the cost of the 5360 with it's current limitations.

They are on the right track, but I'd spend another $1000 (new version street price @ 2500) if it has a faster color wheel, better lens shift and better user controls / mode settings.

There is no mention of the DI in 2D or 3D. They also compared it for crosstalk to the Epson 3010 (equivalent), which is probably fair since they are in the same price category -- the 9500 doesn't have any while the cheapest Epson does. They also said 2D to 3D conversion stinks -- what else is new? A pretty good review, but completely at odds with Art's and Kraine's impressions of black levels. I don't think it will be in the same league as the 6010 for 3D brightness so I would think a 92" screen would be as big as you'd want to go. The reviewers claim that crosstalk on the HW30 is worse than on the Panasonic 7000 -- I guess WilliamG won't be interested in the Sony.
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post #2265 of 3271
3/3/12 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

This is a big reason why I cant get excited about ANY of these non DLP projectors for 3d..........3d gaming. Gaming seems to be a torture test for these machines, especially when you max out the depth slider in the games that have one. How many more generations until we have ghost free 3d in non DLP for gaming? I hope sooner rather than later. My 40 and 45 are useless when it comes to 3d gaming due to extreme ghosting......its ugly!

I took a lot of heat here last year for pointing out with user reviews that the little Acer killed the heavy-duty expensive projectors for 3D gaming. People just wouldn't believe that a $500 projector was better at anything than their expensive machines. It is a hard pill to swallow!
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post #2266 of 3271
3/3/12 at 3:41pm
Deja Vu,

What is your opion about the 6010 after the last couple weeks? I'm tired of waiting for the w7000, and thinking about getting either the 5010/6010 or the acer 95000.
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post #2267 of 3271
3/3/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I took a lot of heat here last year for pointing out with user reviews that the little Acer killed the heavy-duty expensive projectors for 3D gaming. People just wouldn't believe that a $500 projector was better at anything than their expensive machines. It is a hard pill to swallow!

Tell me about it! Every time I go over to my friends house who has the 5360 I am just amazed at the complete and total lack of ghosting for movies, games, 2d to 3d conversion, etc........my 40/45 has not looked as good for 3d since I first saw this little Acer simply due to the difference in ghosting. ****, I would have bought one long ago, but I just cant make it work in my setup from a practical standpoint, especially doing the zoom method, and with the HP screen. But you are right, and it is a hard pill to swallow.
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post #2268 of 3271
3/3/12 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Tell me about it! Every time I go over to my friends house who has the 5360 I am just amazed at the complete and total lack of ghosting for movies, games, 2d to 3d conversion, etc........my 40/45 has not looked as good for 3d since I first saw this little Acer simply due to the difference in ghosting. ****, I would have bought one long ago, but I just cant make it work in my setup from a practical standpoint, especially doing the zoom method, and with the HP screen. But you are right, and it is a hard pill to swallow.

same situation, I have to put the 5360 on a severe tilt and keystone for my HP screen. It still looks ok, but I don't like using the keystone.

i'm not giving up on the W7000 yet, I'm talking to one of their engineers on Monday morning to sort out the firmware situation and explain that the natives are getting restless (aka fix it fast, fix it with precision so they can finally sell these projectors)

The issue i'm having with 2D mode doesn't affect the 3D mode and it's razor sharp, bright and the image is rock solid - zero sense of flicker for my sensitive eyes.

it still looks good in 2D mode and I know how sharp my first version was, so hopefully I'll help them get it sorted out. i'm passing along all the current owners firmware versions, etc.







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post #2269 of 3271
3/3/12 at 9:09pm
Jason, how come no mention of the black levels with the W7000? This was supposed to be fixed, but no one who has the latest version of the W7000 is talking about this. Please update us -- have the black levels been fixed or not?
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post #2270 of 3271
3/3/12 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctn View Post

Deja Vu,

What is your opion about the 6010 after the last couple weeks? I'm tired of waiting for the w7000, and thinking about getting either the 5010/6010 or the acer 95000.

The 6010 is a nice projector. If you keep the glasses at mid-level for brightness in 3D you won't see much ghosting at all and it is still pretty bright on a big screen. The Acer 9500 doesn't seem (from most reviews) to be all that bright in 3D so you may have to use a 100" screen or smaller. If you can get the Epson 6010 for $2,700 to $3,000 then you might want to give it a try. For smaller screens I think I'd go for the Acer and save some money and have no worries about ghosting.
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post #2271 of 3271
3/3/12 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The 6010 is a nice projector. If you keep the glasses at mid-level for brightness in 3D you won't see much ghosting at all and it is still pretty bright on a big screen. The Acer 9500 doesn't seem (from most reviews) to be all that bright in 3D so you may have to use a 100" screen or smaller. If you can get the Epson 6010 for $2,700 to $3,000 then you might want to give it a try. For smaller screens I think I'd go for the Acer and save some money and have no worries about ghosting.

Uh yeah, that would be quite a bargain at that price since you're down into the 5010 price range for a 6010, not sure where you'd get that kind of deal if this is U.S.

I run the 6010 with the glasses on high brightness with picture mode 3D Dynamic on a 1.3 gain screen and haven't seen any ghosting on any titles I've watched but I'm not sure I've played ones people complain about ghosting.
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post #2272 of 3271
3/4/12 at 4:43am
I just saw happyfeet 2 there was way to much ghosting on the epson.

Its above my tolerance..... a pitty

Did somebody else has seen this movie on the epson also?
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post #2273 of 3271
3/4/12 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The 6010 is a nice projector. If you keep the glasses at mid-level for brightness in 3D you won't see much ghosting at all and it is still pretty bright on a big screen. The Acer 9500 doesn't seem (from most reviews) to be all that bright in 3D so you may have to use a 100" screen or smaller. .....

Thank you for the reply. I have an acer 5360 for games and 3D and was hoping for a decent 1080 upgrade. I like what I've read about the Epson but not sure if I will like the LCD look. Both of my projectors are DLP.

IMO, the 5360 looks better in 3D with Nvidia glasses through a PC. The pictures did not look too good to me when watching with the 3dxl box and the DLP link glasses.
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post #2274 of 3271
3/4/12 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The reviewers claim that crosstalk on the HW30 is worse than on the Panasonic 7000 -- I guess WilliamG won't be interested in the Sony.

Actually they provide compelling factual evidence:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21727476
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post #2275 of 3271
3/4/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post

I just saw happyfeet 2 there was way to much ghosting on the epson.

Its above my tolerance..... a pitty

Did somebody else has seen this movie on the epson also?

I have this. I've only watched it on the little Acer with Nvidia glasses and it looked amazing. I'll give it a go on the Epson. What scenes are the worst?

BTW -- I haven't seen anything yet for 3D that beats the little Acer overall for 3D on a smaller screen. I wouldn't worry too much about resolution since 1080p 3D downscaled to 720p/120hz 3D looks really close especially on a smaller screen (80" to 100"). Where the Epson excels is its firepower on larger screens and its great colour (THX 3D mode on the 6010).
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post #2276 of 3271
3/4/12 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I have this. I've only watched it on the little Acer with Nvidia glasses and it looked amazing. I'll give it a go on the Epson. What scenes are the worst?

BTW -- I haven't seen anything yet for 3D that beats the little Acer overall for 3D on a smaller screen. I wouldn't worry to much about resolution since 1080p 3D downscaled to 720p/120hz 3D looks really close especially on a smaller screen (80" to 100"). Where the Epson excels is its firepower on larger screens and its great colour (THX 3D mode on the 6010).

Hello thx for your reply.

Its almost on every scene in the beginning...
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post #2277 of 3271
3/4/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Actually they provide compelling factual evidence:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21727476

I think this ghosting discussion with comparisons boarders on useless because there are 50 different configurations possible for each projector and there isn't any agreed on way to compare. Some projectors may have a ghost free setting while allowing some ghosting to achieve additional brightness. Who knows what setting is in use when these comparisons are done...

As for my Hugo 3D viewing experience, the HW30 was amazing. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21730877

... Altan

(Update: Let me add... my comment above clearly doesn't apply to owners of the projectors have have dialed them in appropriately. That info is very useful. It applies to sites that don't even own the projector and need to return it before they have time to learn the best configuration)
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post #2278 of 3271
3/4/12 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I think this ghosting discussion with comparisons boarders on useless because there are 50 different configurations possible for each projector and there isn't any agreed on way to compare. Some projectors may have a ghost free setting while allowing some ghosting to achieve additional brightness. Who knows what setting is in use when these comparisons are done...

As for my Hugo 3D viewing experience, the HW30 was amazing. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21730877

... Altan

staring at gray scale test patterns is an easy way to take the topic of ghosting out of context. Some people like to use it as a definitive test, but it's not always the case when viewing real content.

Other important factors come into play such as contrast and black floor, etc. My screenshots are a better indicator of real world content and I'll continue to add new one's of HUGO, Adventures of Tin Tin, etc soon.
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post #2279 of 3271
3/4/12 at 9:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Jason, how come no mention of the black levels with the W7000? This was supposed to be fixed, but no one who has the latest version of the W7000 is talking about this. Please update us -- have the black levels been fixed or not?

I can't answer yet because my 7000 has the older 1.0 firmware. I'll be getting it sorted out with a BenQ engineer tomorrow morning and get this one swapped out with a model that has the latest firmware so I can compare the before/after.
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post #2280 of 3271
3/4/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

staring at gray scale test patterns is an easy way to take the topic of ghosting out of context. Some people like to use it as a definitive test, but it's not always the case when viewing real content.

Other important factors come into play such as contrast and black floor, etc. My screenshots are a better indicator of real world content and I'll continue to add new one's of HUGO, Adventures of Tin Tin, etc soon.

Zombie, your postings/tests have been very useful. I added a clarification to my post shortly after posting it, but you must have hit "reply" before I added my edit and "save/post" after. I wanted to make it clear your stuff has been very useful...

Now... in order to further complicate matters...

I'm highly suspicious that some projectors may handle side-by-side or top-bottom significantly worse than frame packed. While it's valid to indicate a projector may not handle these variations well, it's not valid to categorize the projector solely by its SbS performance.

I'm guessing that these 3D test patterns are commonly using side-by-side. Anyone know otherwise?

Just my person opinion, but how well frame packing is supported is significantly more important to me than SbS / TB.

... Altan
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