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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 78

post #2311 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I've set the brightness settings for the glasses numerous times in 3D so something is amiss. I'll check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My 6010 is set to auto recognize 3D and I can set brightness as needed. The manual must be wrong.


OK, Thanks guys - I'm going to play with this more this evening when I get home as well... I want to try accessing this while a 3D movie is actually playing, perhaps it "un-grays" the option then, without having to change the 3D Format setting - but then, the user manual should be worded that it's only available while playing a 3D source... I do find that the user manual is a little lacking in some of it's details...
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post #2312 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My 6010 is set to auto recognize 3D and I can set brightness as needed. The manual must be wrong.

No, the manual is not wrong. Here's the trick -- you must be in a 3D movie to have access to the brightness settings, if not, then they are grayed out. I just finished looking for this problem. I was in 3D mode, but had not started a 3D movie and went into the settings -- brightness was grayed out. I was somewhat surprised so I started the 3D movie and went back to the 3D settings and now I could access brightness for the glasses.

Happy Feet 2 is a torture test for ghosting. I watched parts of it again and specifically looked everywhere but where the director wanted me to look and yes, I saw lots of minor ghosting that lasts at times for maybe a second or less and it is mostly a white outline to the side of an object -- not enough for me to dump the projector. If you watch where you're supposed to you won't see much and many won't see any and that's why the Panasonic owners are all over the map about ghosting on their projectors -- many simply don't see it unless they specifically concentrate on looking for it. You can literally train yourself to see it and then you'll get pretty good at seeing it. There's lots more ghosting in Happy Feet 2 than Hugo, IMO, but it is quick and subtle.
When people say they don't see ghosting they are being honest because they really don't see any ghosting, but that doesn't mean others won't see it. This type of ghosting is an individual tolerance difference. Ghosting on Happy Feet 2, IMO, with the Epson is not in your face like some ghosting you see in the photos taken with the JVC projector, but it is there and the harder you look the more you'll see. If I were to recommend a projector for 3D only it would be DLP, but I'm not sure which one.
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post #2313 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

No, the manual is not wrong. Here's the trick -- you must be in a 3D movie to have access to the brightness settings, if not, then they are grayed out. I just finished looking for this problem. I was in 3D mode, but had not started a 3D movie and went into the settings -- brightness was grayed out. I was somewhat surprised so I started the 3D movie and went back to the 3D settings and now I could access brightness for the glasses.

Happy Feet 2 is a torture test for ghosting. I watched parts of it again and specifically looked everywhere but where the director wanted me to look and yes, I saw lots of minor ghosting that lasts at times for maybe a second or less and it is mostly a white outline to the side of an object -- not enough for me to dump the projector. If you watch where you're supposed to you won't see much and many won't see any and that's why the Panasonic owners are all over the map about ghosting on their projectors -- many simply don't see it unless they specifically concentrate on looking for it. You can literally train yourself to see it and then you'll get pretty good at seeing it. There's lots more ghosting in Happy Feet 2 than Hugo, IMO, but it is quick and subtle.
When people say they don't see ghosting they are being honest because they really don't see any ghosting, but that doesn't mean others won't see it. This type of ghosting is an individual tolerance difference. Ghosting on Happy Feet 2, IMO, with the Epson is not in your face like some ghosting you see in the photos taken with the JVC projector, but it is there and the harder you look the more you'll see. If I were to recommend a projector for 3D only it would be DLP, but I'm not sure which one.

Hello deja vu

Did you watch happyfeet 2 with the playstation 3 3d glasses and the epson glasses?

By the way i did a test again tonight with the xpand 104 glasses.

And with some sacrifice in brightness i could get less ghosting with happy feet 2 with the xpands after some tuning.

Also i tested a side by side movie(gforce) i must say that did the epson not bad for a sbs movie.
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post #2314 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

No, the manual is not wrong. Here's the trick -- you must be in a 3D movie to have access to the brightness settings, if not, then they are grayed out. I just finished looking for this problem. I was in 3D mode, but had not started a 3D movie and went into the settings -- brightness was grayed out. I was somewhat surprised so I started the 3D movie and went back to the 3D settings and now I could access brightness for the glasses.

Happy Feet 2 is a torture test for ghosting. I watched parts of it again and specifically looked everywhere but where the director wanted me to look and yes, I saw lots of minor ghosting that lasts at times for maybe a second or less and it is mostly a white outline to the side of an object -- not enough for me to dump the projector. If you watch where you're supposed to you won't see much and many won't see any and that's why the Panasonic owners are all over the map about ghosting on their projectors -- many simply don't see it unless they specifically concentrate on looking for it. You can literally train yourself to see it and then you'll get pretty good at seeing it. There's lots more ghosting in Happy Feet 2 than Hugo, IMO, but it is quick and subtle.
When people say they don't see ghosting they are being honest because they really don't see any ghosting, but that doesn't mean others won't see it. This type of ghosting is an individual tolerance difference. Ghosting on Happy Feet 2, IMO, with the Epson is not in your face like some ghosting you see in the photos taken with the JVC projector, but it is there and the harder you look the more you'll see. If I were to recommend a projector for 3D only it would be DLP, but I'm not sure which one.

OK, my suspicions were correct, then - a 3D source has to be playing, and the setting is accessable then. Awesome. I was playing around with this last night while my daughter was watching a 2D Harry Potter movie, and she paused the movie to go upstairs for a break. I had been reading the 5010 threads here and wanted to try out that brightness setting for the glasses, so I jumped into the menu real quick, and it wasn't letting me in unless I set the 3D Format as the manual stated. so it was all because a 3D movie wasn't playing...

So then, some people will see ghosting in 3D with a 3-LCD projector, and some will see rainbows with the DLP... If you are sensitive to both, then I guess you're screwed...!
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post #2315 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreyTheater View Post

If you are sensitive to both, then I guess you're screwed...!

I'm sensitive to both and I'm still not getting screwed! What's a guy to do?
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post #2316 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I'm sensitive to both and I'm still not getting screwed! What's a guy to do?

Lol, I'm sesitive to neither, and it hasn't been working for me either... what ARE we to do??
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post #2317 of 3271
3/5/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Happy Feet 2 is a torture test for ghosting.
If you watch where you're supposed to you won't see much and many won't see any and that's why the Panasonic owners are all over the map about ghosting on their projectors -- many simply don't see it unless they specifically concentrate on looking for it. You can literally train yourself to see it and then you'll get pretty good at seeing it.

When people say they don't see ghosting they are being honest because they really don't see any ghosting, but that doesn't mean others won't see it. This type of ghosting is an individual tolerance difference.

Ghosting for 3D is similar to legacy analog broadcast multi-path distortion in 2D. It's very intrusive over time and a major reason why the world switched over to digital broadcasting.

This forum is for those appreciate the finer things in life. Certainly no one else would torture and confuse themselves.
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post #2318 of 3271
3/5/12 at 2:07pm
From the Epson manual:

"Note: This setting is not available when 3D Format is set to Auto."

Strictly speaking, this statement is incorrect. The brightness setting IS available for adjustment when the 3D Format is set to Auto, even if only when a 3D movie is playing. The statement implies that one needs to disable 3D Auto playback to change the brightness setting, which is simply not the case. It's incorrect and confusing. Witness the confusion it's created here.
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post #2319 of 3271
3/5/12 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

From the Epson manual:

"Note: This setting is not available when 3D Format is set to Auto."

Strictly speaking, this statement is incorrect. The brightness setting IS available for adjustment when the 3D Format is set to Auto, even if only when a 3D movie is playing. The statement implies that one needs to disable 3D Auto playback to change the brightness setting, which is simply not the case. It's incorrect and confusing. Witness the confusion it's created here.

Dazed and confused is pretty much my "normal".
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post #2320 of 3271
3/5/12 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i've read about issues using the built in intel HD video which is why I was asking.

if curiosity kicks in, maybe give the Nvidia GT430 a shot. It's only $39 after rebate. I've used this on all the projectors in the shoot-out, it works excellent for 3D and performs the same as my Samsung 3D BD player and my Himedia 3D network player.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121397

Does this card do 24p correctly?
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post #2321 of 3271
3/5/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

From the Epson manual:

"Note: This setting is not available when 3D Format is set to Auto."

Strictly speaking, this statement is incorrect. The brightness setting IS available for adjustment when the 3D Format is set to Auto, even if only when a 3D movie is playing. The statement implies that one needs to disable 3D Auto playback to change the brightness setting, which is simply not the case. It's incorrect and confusing. Witness the confusion it's created here.

Yes, the manual is definitely incorrect - I verified tonight with a 3D movie running, the 3D Brightness option was available and I could change brightness without touching the 3D Format setting... If I'd of just waited a few hours until I got home from work before posting the question, I would have figured it out myself, and wouldn't have needed to ask. But then, other new owners may get confused on this as well, so at least my confusion is now permanently documented here to make them all aware... crap, I've been immortalized...

The statement in the manual should correctly read:

"Note: This setting is only available while playing a 3D source, or when 3D Format is not set to Auto."
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post #2322 of 3271
3/6/12 at 5:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Does this card do 24p correctly?

mike - it does output at the correct frame rate. if you decide to get it, let me know how it compares to the on board with 3D performance.
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post #2323 of 3271
3/6/12 at 8:08am
Here's what I take away from the discussion about the Benq W7000. AVS got in a new shipment of updated W7000s. The expectation was that these projectors would have the black levels Art talked about that the vapourware (customized?) machine he received has. Others who have received "updated" projectors not only don't have projectors with better black levels, but have projectors with other issues as well. Few people who are interested in this projector are going to chance it until there are "fixed" BenQ W7000 projectors. By that time there will be other viable and better 3D DLP options on the table.
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post #2324 of 3271
3/6/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's what I take away from the discussion about the Benq W7000. AVS got in a new shipment of updated W7000s. The expectation was that these projectors would have the black levels Art talked about that the vapourware (customized?) machine he received has. Others who have received "updated" projectors not only don't have projectors with better black levels, but have projectors with other issues as well. Few people who are interested in this projector are going to chance it until there are "fixed" BenQ W7000 projectors. By that time there will be other viable and better 3D DLP options on the table.

I can tell you that I received my replacement W7000 in two days after contacting BenQ with my problems and all of my problems have been fixed.

My problems were

1. Blurry image with HDMI (PS3 and HTPC)
2. Slow switching in 3D mode
3. Blacks weren't great

All of these problems were fixed with my new model and I'm very happy. Been using it every night with the wife and kids and the picture is amazing now (better than my W5000).

Also it was the first time my Son and Mother in law had seen 3D and let me tell you they were blown away. I'm using the True Depth glasses and they work awesome. My only complaint is the glare you get inside the lens... But I have figured out its just reflecting off the frames (glossy). I painted it a non reflective black and all is good.

If you want to know anything else about my experience with the W7000 I will be more than happy to share.
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post #2325 of 3271
3/6/12 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cru-Jones View Post

I can tell you that I received my replacement W7000 in two days after contacting BenQ with my problems and all of my problems have been fixed.

My problems were

1. Blurry image with HDMI (PS3 and HTPC)
2. Slow switching in 3D mode
3. Blacks weren't great

All of these problems were fixed with my new model and I'm very happy. Been using it every night with the wife and kids and the picture is amazing now (better than my W5000).

Also it was the first time my Son and Mother in law had seen 3D and let me tell you they were blown away. I'm using the True Depth glasses and they work awesome. My only complaint is the glare you get inside the lens... But I have figured out its just reflecting off the frames (glossy). I painted it a non reflective black and all is good.

If you want to know anything else about my experience with the W7000 I will be more than happy to share.

So you are confirming much improved blacks over the old one you had? What is the firmware number? How come no one else is reporting improved blacks, or are they and I've missed those posts?
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post #2326 of 3271
3/6/12 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

mike - it does output at the correct frame rate. if you decide to get it, let me know how it compares to the on board with 3D performance.

I started to get it, but it looks like people are still not getting 23.976 fps with it. That is the only reason that I would buy a video card to add to my HTPC.
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post #2327 of 3271
3/6/12 at 11:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I started to get it, but it looks like people are still not getting 23.976 fps with it. That is the only reason that I would buy a video card to add to my HTPC.

hmm.. were people complaining in the HTPC thread? I'll check tonight to verify.
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post #2328 of 3271
3/6/12 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post


So you are confirming much improved blacks over the old one you had? What is the firmware number? How come no one else is reporting improved blacks, or are they and I've missed those posts?

I can tell you that my Blacks look better on this model, but that could be the result of the blurring issue I had. I can honestly say that my W7000 is perfect now. The sharpness is back to the way I was used to with my W5000 and the 3D switching problem is gone.

I really don't understand why the 'Black' became a problem... the only thing I can think of is the initial test models had a big problem. I never saw a test model so I can't compare. I again can say the Blacks in my W7000 are great... Will they ever be as good as some LCD's... probably not, but if you aren't picky about having perfect blacks then you will love this projector.

If you do a search for my user name you will read all the problems I had with my first model and the great success I had with my replacement.

I have been posting in the W7000 owners thread so if you have been only reading this one they you probably haven't seen my posts.

My firmware is 00.100 and my Rev is December 2011.

Through my dealings with Sid (BenQ tech) it appears that the engineers have been putting a "-1" or "-2" etc. at the end of the firmware for some end users. This is so they can keep track of what changes they have made and with what replacement unit.

My Rev and firmware were the exact same from my old unit and my replacement unit and I can tell you these are two entirely different projectors (image wise).

I hope this answers some of your concerns.

I have always loved my W5000 and I love this projector even more because of all the improvements they have made since that model.
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post #2329 of 3271
3/6/12 at 2:21pm
Cru-Jones -- Wow! This is good news. Maybe BenQ has gotten its act together. If I was sure I could get one like yours I'd buy one. I'm not interested in buying one that is pre-update. I'm waiting to hear what Jason says about the various glasses and how they each work with the W7000.
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post #2330 of 3271
3/6/12 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cru-Jones View Post

.

My firmware is 00.100 and my Rev is December 2011.

Through my dealings with Sid (BenQ tech) it appears that the engineers have been putting a "-1" or "-2" etc. at the end of the firmware for some end users. This is so they can keep track of what changes they have made and with what replacement unit.

My Rev and firmware were the exact same from my old unit and my replacement unit and I can tell you these are two entirely different projectors (image wise).

This is very odd that they would be providing different firmware identification tags for some units. Perhaps there are differences in the components of some units that require a slightly different firmware. An explanation from someone at BenQ would put alot of minds at ease for sure. Does anyone know if they are monitoring any of the w7000 threads here?
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post #2331 of 3271
3/6/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondaedg View Post


This is very odd that they would be providing different firmware identification tags for some units. Perhaps there are differences in the components of some units that require a slightly different firmware. An explanation from someone at BenQ would put alot of minds at ease for sure. Does anyone know if they are monitoring any of the w7000 threads here?

I can tell you what I have been told.

"there has been no hardware changes to any of the units. We have adjusted the firmware specifically for the end user based on their issues"

That is one of the first questions I asked. What I don't understand is why there would be different fixes for multiple problems. Why not one fix for them all with a proper incremental firmware number?

The only thing I can think of is they're fixing the customers issues with a temporary fix while they compile a firmware release.

I can also tell you that Sid said they're working on an end user firmware update program... no more need for these time consuming exchanges. Should have been done a long time ago!

Again they have fixed all my issues and I have shared my experience with BenQ. They have been great to me... I just called Sid today and asked him for the RS232 codes for the W7000 and I had them in my email 2 minutes later.

My projector is performing the way I expected it to and because of it I'm a happy camper. Everyone that comes over drops there jaw and asks where they can get one.

One more thing... I use it for gaming also (PS3). Mostly GT5 with the Fanatec GT2 wheel and clubs port pedals and I also play Uncharted and COD... They look awesome!!!! The 3D in uncharted is great... I haven't tweaked the GT5 yet, but that's my weekend project.

My HTPC is a quad core intel with 4gb ram, 8tb HD and a new Gforce GTX 550 ti OC and it looks awesome with this projector over HDMI. RGB looks great too, but I can't do 3D. I use XBMC for 3D and everything else and it works flawlessly.

My first projector looked horrible with this configuration, but again there was a problem with the firmware and BenQ fixed it.
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post #2332 of 3271
3/6/12 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Cru-Jones -- Wow! This is good news. Maybe BenQ has gotten its act together. If I was sure I could get one like yours I'd buy one. I'm not interested in buying one that is pre-update. I'm waiting to hear what Jason says about the various glasses and how they each work with the W7000.

I contacted Andy @ BenQ, he is one of their engineers and his name shows up on the AVS forum dating back to 2004. Hopefully he'll get back with some details soon.

I started watching HF2 with the Acer the other night, but i'll finish the 2nd half with the W7000. When it's over, I'll grab some shots through the glasses of the various glasses. I have 4 different DLP link glasses here including the BenQ's.
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post #2333 of 3271
3/6/12 at 5:05pm
Did any of you who have the Benq w7000 have a Benq w10000? I had decided to upgrade but am now not as sure (in part because I couldn't get it in time for the Big East Tournament on Espn 3d). I'm wondering how much better the 2d (I use it primarily for watching football and basketball) is than my older model and if there are any other benefits (other than 3d and the extra hdmi port). My room is not 100% light controlled and from some of the screen shots (I think zombie's if I recall correctly), it looks like the w7000 is brighter.
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post #2334 of 3271
3/6/12 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie3 View Post

Did any of you who have the Benq w7000 have a Benq w10000? I had decided to upgrade but am now not as sure (in part because I couldn't get it in time for the Big East Tournament on Espn 3d). I'm wondering how much better the 2d (I use it primarily for watching football and basketball) is than my older model and if there are any other benefits (other than 3d and the extra hdmi port). My room is not 100% light controlled and from some of the screen shots (I think zombie's if I recall correctly), it looks like the w7000 is brighter.

I had the W5000 and the 2D picture on the W7000 has more depth and color... Really pops out.

As for brightness... This thing is nuts!!! Squint your eyes bright (i kid). I dialed down all the settings and it is still super bright. I can now have on my lights in my living room and it looks great.

Now I'm not trying to scare you and say its too bright... I personally like it. I always wanted a brighter projector and the W7000 delivers without sacrificing PQ.
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post #2335 of 3271
3/6/12 at 6:10pm
Cru-Jones and Jason how bright is the W7000 in 3D? How does it compare to the Epson? The Epson is really amazingly bright in roughly calibrated dynamic mode with glasses on bright. I watched TinTin this way and it looked great with no ghosting that I could detect. Watched some of Sammy and it had some slight ghosting, but this one is reference quality for 3D -- nothing like a snake poking its head into your home theater. Sammy's Adventures has more use of both extreme positive and negative parallax than any other 3D Blu-Ray I've seen so far.
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post #2336 of 3271
3/6/12 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Cru-Jones and Jason how bright is the W7000 in 3D? How does it compare to the Epson? The Epson is really amazingly bright in roughly calibrated dynamic mode with glasses on bright. I watched TinTin this way and it looked great with no ghosting that I could detect. Watched some of Sammy and it had some slight ghosting, but this one is reference quality for 3D -- nothing like a snake poking its head into your home theater. Sammy's Adventures has more use of both extreme positive and negative parallax than any other 3D Blu-Ray I've seen so far.

I can't compare to the Epson because I have never seen it. I can tell you with my True Depth glasses on and in 3D mode it's about as bright as my W5000. That being said I was more than happy with the brightness of my W5000.

I tried it with the back lights on and it's not that great. Turn off the lights and there is more than enough brightness.

No ghosting, crosstalk... None period!

Yes Sammy's adventure has incredible 3D scenes. It was my sons first 3D movie (he's almost 4) and he didn't make a peep (that's a good thing).

Also I watched Harold and Kumar in 3D and there are some funny eye popping 3D moments (my son didn't watch that one)

Hope that helps. Jason would have a better answer on the comparison for you.
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post #2337 of 3271
3/6/12 at 8:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Cru-Jones and Jason how bright is the W7000 in 3D? How does it compare to the Epson? The Epson is really amazingly bright in roughly calibrated dynamic mode with glasses on bright. I watched TinTin this way and it looked great with no ghosting that I could detect. Watched some of Sammy and it had some slight ghosting, but this one is reference quality for 3D -- nothing like a snake poking its head into your home theater. Sammy's Adventures has more use of both extreme positive and negative parallax than any other 3D Blu-Ray I've seen so far.

as soon as I hook the W7000 back up I'll measure it. I've been using the long neglected 5360 for 1/2 half of Happy Feet 2. I have all these DLP link glasses to try out. My only issue with the Acer was the color shift of the Nvidia glasses. For some reason, my eyes tune into this color tint.

michaelscott73 was nice enough to lend me a pair of the Tru Depth and the VIP glasses to compare to the BenQ factory glasses.

Upper Left: True Depth
Lower Left: VIP
Center - Nvidia 3D vision
Upper Right: BenQ
Lower Right: Optoma ZD201

There is something unique with the polarization of the VIP glasses, you can see the difference in the photo. The screen itself looks fine, but reflections in the room are polarized in 1 eye and not the other which is distracting. I hope I am explaining it right, but that's how it looks.

The Nvidia glasses are tinted similar to the Xpand 103's and the ZD201 & BenQ have a close tint color to the MV3D's. I am starting to like the ZD201 glasses.

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post #2338 of 3271
3/7/12 at 7:25am
For those of you who have taken measurements in 3D, can you explain a bit more about the process of taking measurements through the glasses?

I tried calibrating 3D over the weekend and it didn't go too well. But I think the issue is that I had the 3D glasses on with the shutter opening/closing. With hindsight I think this caused a the readings to frequently be inaccurate or just plain wacky due to the shutter opening and closing while the meter was trying to get a measurement.

Then I started thinking about it - maybe you are supposed to just leave the glasses off? My plan next time is to put the pj into 3D mode as I did before, but I will leave the glasses off while I am measuring through them.

My thought is this - the lens of the glasses has two states: either its open or its closed. And it is closed electronically, which means it needs to be powered on to reach the closed state. But when powered off, it is essentially locked in the open state.

Therefore this would suggest that when open, the glasses have the same color characteristics (color shift, effect on brightness) than it does when the glasses are powered off. And thereby that should mean I am OK to measure the 3D with the glasses off.

For reference I am measuring the the Monster glasses. I assume it doesn't matter which lens (left or right) I measure through since they are identical (unlike with the VIP glasses which I suppose will cause its own 3D measurement challenges).

Does all this make sense?
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post #2339 of 3271
3/7/12 at 1:40pm
Tonight i played with the xpand 104 glasses again with the movie happy feet 2.

I must say that there was much less ghosting.

Okay i lost a litle brightness but the epson has alot off reserves.

This is a torture movie for ghosting but for a lcd this combo is a winner for me...

I must say i love the epson more and more....
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post #2340 of 3271
3/7/12 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post

Tonight i played with the xpand 104 glasses again with the movie happy feet 2.

I must say that there was much less ghosting.

Okay i lost a litle brightness but the epson has alot off reserves.

This is a torture movie for ghosting but for a lcd this combo is a winner for me...

I must say i love the epson more and more....

john- that's interesting, I thought several people tried the 104's on the Epson with similar results to the factory glasses, I don't recall anyone stating it was a noticeable improvement.

have you tried them with other movies? if it looks good with happy feet 2, then it should be good for everything else.. this movie is a great 3D torture test.
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