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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 83

post #2461 of 3271
4/29/12 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Art is certainly entitled to his opinions, but this years reviews/comments has made me question his process/results. I'll not be going there for much info in the future.

Yup me either.. I've already stopped frequenting the site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crobb666 View Post

Hey Zombie,

I am looking to upgrade from my Mits HC7000, and I am leaning toward the RS45, but I haven't seen it in action, I only care about 2D, and I am using a 1.0 gain dalite 84" diagonal screen. I love dark movies, and have always wanted a JVC. Coming from the mits how does the RS45 compare? I am slightly worried about the light corner issue, and on projectorreviews.com's review of the RS45 they noticed a blue cast to the picture even after calibration, and especially in dark scenes. Have you noticed this issue as well? Also, I am a professional calibrator and I am not a gamer.

You should go to http://www.hometheater.com/category/projector-reviews and read a real review of the RS45. All that blue cast and light corner malarkey is not how these projectors look in reality. Being that you're a 2D sci fi guy like me..I don't think it gets any better in this price range than the RS45 for pure 2D viewing. It should far and away be deeper blacks compared to your current unit,wiith a much more dynamic image to boot!
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2462 of 3271
4/29/12 at 7:04pm
Thread Starter 
JC - I have a new media player you'll be interested in. stayed tuned for a few minutes.
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post #2463 of 3271
4/29/12 at 7:32pm
Cool. I'm all ears.
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post #2464 of 3271
4/29/12 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
This is for Manni01, Joseph Clark and Mike & Mark @ AVS + anyone else interested in a 2D and 3D media streamer.

The top player is the Micca EP950 which looks identical to the Himedia 900B that has the 24FPS output error. Micca must have worked with the OEM company to make a hardware change. Now the output is supposed to have the correct 59.94/23.976Hz signal.

I tried it for a few hours going between the HW30, RS55 and the W7000 and haven't seen any skipping in 2D or 3D. Also some network skipping I was getting during 3D playback is gone on the Micca. I don't know if any other hardware changes were made.

this player is selling for a good price on Amazon. You can also pop the lid and install a 3TB HD with no tools, it just drops in and connects with a sliding edge connector. Joe - It's playing back all the 3D I can throw at it including your 3D demo at the Botanical Gardens.

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post #2465 of 3271
4/29/12 at 7:49pm
That's great. Does it recognize iso files?

Actually, I've spent about 3 weeks working on my computer systems (for 3D editing and movie library playback), and 3D is playing well (no skipping), even on a lowly Core i3 HTPC with PowerDVD 12. But if they fix one thing, something else seems to break. Whenever it goes into 23.976 fps, it thinks it's in 3D, even if the film is 2D. I'm getting closer, but still no cigar. It would be great if this device "just plain works."
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post #2466 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This is for Manni01, Joseph Clark and Mike & Mark @ AVS + anyone else interested in a 2D and 3D media streamer.

The top player is the Micca EP950 which looks identical to the Himedia 900B that has the 24FPS output error. Micca must have worked with the OEM company to make a hardware change. Now the output is supposed to have the correct 59.94/23.976Hz signal.

I tried it for a few hours going between the HW30, RS55 and the W7000 and haven't seen any skipping in 2D or 3D. Also some network skipping I was getting during 3D playback is gone on the Micca. I don't know if any other hardware changes were made.

this player is selling for a good price on Amazon. You can also pop the lid and install a 3TB HD with no tools, it just drops in and connects with a sliding edge connector. Joe - It's playing back all the 3D I can throw at it including your 3D demo at the Botanical Gardens.


I need one
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post #2467 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
The majority of my storage is ISO, it plays them back no problem. One of my favorite features is 'direct play' which starts the movie playing from the beginning with a quickness. Scrolling through the timeline is fast too.

If you have any new content to share, let me know via PM so I can check it out on this device. The 900B for some reason was skipping during some 3D BD playback from the network storage, but those same movies aren't skipping on the EP950. I also have a 3TB green drive in the new player and the media access is very quick jumping from movie to movie.

I still have to check it out to make sure it's behaving, but it's already better than the 1st gen model it's replacing. I'll update the thread with more info and see if I can give it a solid recommendation for 2D and 3D media playback.
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post #2468 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

That's great. Does it recognize iso files?

Actually, I've spent about 3 weeks working on my computer systems (for 3D editing and movie library playback), and 3D is playing well (no skipping), even on a lowly Core i3 HTPC with PowerDVD 12. But if they fix one thing, something else seems to break. Whenever it goes into 23.976 fps, it thinks it's in 3D, even if the film is 2D. I'm getting closer, but still no cigar. It would be great if this device "just plain works."

If you read the "Most Favorable Positive Review" on the Amazon page, the reviewer says it does read both ISO and BD structure fine:

"I went through quite a few media players recently. Almost gave up on idea of finding the one that plays full HD rips flawlessly. The perfect player for me would be one that is reasonably priced and plays direct (m2ts) HD rip with 24p and HD audio over network from NAS, 3D is welcome too. 1185 based players were close, but were dropping audio during playback, occasionally. Popcorn Hour A-300 was horrible bug fested player. Dune HD TV-101 was almost there, but could not hold the candle with HD Audio and does not play DivX encoded video.

This player based on 1186 Realtek chip and handles full HD video and HD audio flawlessly:
24p - check
Audio sync - check
TrueHD - check
DTS-HD - check
Subtitles -check
3D-SBS/TOB - check (activate from player popup menu during playback, once in 3D - player's playback menu and info popups would work in 3D mode)
3D-SBS/TOB SRT subtitles - check
SMB shares - check
NFS shares - check
UPNP streaming - check

It plays iso and BD folder fine. Menus sometimes not shown - plays movie straight.

I tried 3D iso - some will show menu, some not. You can configure player to prompt for iso playback mode. "Direct play" plays 3D movie version correctly on every iso I tried so far. When "BD Lite" or "BD 1.0" used it may not show 3D movie for playback or just plays 3D movie straight. TV switched to 3D mode automatically. I am sure there will be few 3D bugs there, but it is not critical for me. Besides, my preferred method is "Direct play" and it works correctly.

As far as non 3D player - it works flawlessly and quite impressive for brand new product, just released . No fw updates yet published, but I feel like not updating fw, because I do not have any issues yet.

Thanks to Realtek and Micca for making it available. Job well done!

At the moment, this player will wipe floor with the likes of Dune-HD or Popcorn Hour. Not to mention full 3D support."

I may be very interested in one of these myself. I've got about 4 Terrabytes worth of BD rips right now...

EDIT: OK, I took to long to post - Zombie beat me to it...
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post #2469 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
it's cheap enough to buy and play around with to see if it works in your particular setup. I had the original version for 6 months and the stand out issues were the 24FPS bug and some skipping during network 3D BD iso playback which I'm not seeing on the EP950 2nd revision of the hardware.

jumping through the timeline is impressively fast compared to how PDVD and TMT5 can handle it. It's hard to trip this device up while jumping around to different parts of the movie.
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post #2470 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:26pm
I'm guessing then the Himedia unit is using the Realtek 1185 chip; the Micca is using the newer 1186 chip, which evidently eliminates that skipping issue...
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post #2471 of 3271
4/29/12 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
both are using the 1186, but there was some hardware change done to correct the signal timing.
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post #2472 of 3271
4/29/12 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobb666 View Post

I am looking to upgrade from my Mits HC7000, and I am leaning toward the RS45, but I haven't seen it in action, I only care about 2D, and I am using a 1.0 gain dalite 84" diagonal screen.

The main issue you will most likely have with the RS-45 as a calibrator is the lack of a CMS. There is a definite yellow cast to some scenes from the saturation tracking issues of the JVC. The color is not really so noticeable or a problem for most people, but since you are a calibrator I am guessing much like me you will notice it. It is not THAT noticeable in movies with really neutral skin tones, but it exaggerates the yellow that some movies start tinting towards. Columbiana, Hugo, and Immortals are 3 movies I recall recently where the yellow cast was a real issue. There is no way to completely calibrate it out without a VP. I am also not the only one that has noticed this, Tom Huffman also has noted the yellow issue, so I know it's not just my unit. Still this is not a deal breaker for most. The problem is more intense as the lamp ages, because you fight the calibration but you lose lots of brightness.

I might suggest a Sony hw30 if you want better calibration and longer lasting lamps, or pair the RS-45 with either a new lumagen or a less costly DVDO model video processor.
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post #2473 of 3271
4/29/12 at 11:47pm
All that blue cast and light corner malarkey is not how these projectors look in reality. Being that you're a 2D sci fi guy like me..I don't think it gets any better in this price range than the RS45 for pure 2D viewing. It should far and away be deeper blacks compared to your current unit,wiith a much more dynamic image to boot![/quote]

Yes I have read Kris's review, I just like to do alot of research before I make a purchase. Thanks for the info, it does help.
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post #2474 of 3271
4/29/12 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobb666 View Post

All that blue cast and light corner malarkey is not how these projectors look in reality. Being that you're a 2D sci fi guy like me..I don't think it gets any better in this price range than the RS45 for pure 2D viewing. It should far and away be deeper blacks compared to your current unit,wiith a much more dynamic image to boot!

Yes I have read Kris's review, I just like to do alot of research before I make a purchase. Thanks for the info, it does help.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The main issue you will most likely have with the RS-45 as a calibrator is the lack of a CMS. There is a definite yellow cast to some scenes from the saturation tracking issues of the JVC. The color is not really so noticeable or a problem for most people, but since you are a calibrator I am guessing much like me you will notice it. It is not THAT noticeable in movies with really neutral skin tones, but it exaggerates the yellow that some movies start tinting towards. Columbiana, Hugo, and Immortals are 3 movies I recall recently where the yellow cast was a real issue. There is no way to completely calibrate it out without a VP. I am also not the only one that has noticed this, Tom Huffman also has noted the yellow issue, so I know it's not just my unit. Still this is not a deal breaker for most. The problem is more intense as the lamp ages, because you fight the calibration but you lose lots of brightness.

I might suggest a Sony hw30 if you want better calibration and longer lasting lamps, or pair the RS-45 with either a new lumagen or a less costly DVDO model video processor.

Yea, the lack of a CMS is a real bummer, but looking at Kris Deering's review, the color gamut is very close to the rec. 709 spec, and it is much closer than on my mits. The mits' green is extremely oversaturated with a major shift towards yellow, and also has no CMS, so I am sure I would be much happier with the RS45's performance, and if it bugs me I could always add an AV Foundry Video EQ Pro to reign it in. Thanks for the info.
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post #2475 of 3271
4/30/12 at 4:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobb666 View Post

Hey Zombie,

I am looking to upgrade from my Mits HC7000, and I am leaning toward the RS45, but I haven't seen it in action, I only care about 2D, and I am using a 1.0 gain dalite 84" diagonal screen. I love dark movies, and have always wanted a JVC. Coming from the mits how does the RS45 compare? I am slightly worried about the light corner issue, and on projectorreviews.com's review of the RS45 they noticed a blue cast to the picture even after calibration, and especially in dark scenes. Have you noticed this issue as well? Also, I am a professional calibrator and I am not a gamer.

something wasn't right with their sample, there shouldn't have been a blue cast on that projector. I never saw this on my RS40,50,55 or the RS45 I demo'd in the beginning of the shootout thread.

The RS45 is going to be noticeably brighter with much better contrast/black floor than the HC7000. With that size screen, you can crank the iris down for better contrast. Watch the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution once you get it setup - no other projector in the price range can handle this movie as well as the JVC's.
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post #2476 of 3271
4/30/12 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

both are using the 1186, but there was some hardware change done to correct the signal timing.

Does this box support any jukebox or maybe I should say does any jukebox support this box?
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post #2477 of 3271
4/30/12 at 6:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVS View Post

Does this box support any jukebox or maybe I should say does any jukebox support this box?

Hi, i'm not sure i'm understanding the question. Can you elaborate?
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post #2478 of 3271
4/30/12 at 7:28am
OP made this a very exciting thread, which leads me to post bit off-topic (is there an appropriate place to post WTB threads?)

I tried contacting AV Science through their link, but had no success..

Where can I purchase (other than my local store, Amazon, etc.) Sony HW30 or BenQ W7000? I know there are reps in here who handle sales, but I didn't see either of the two projectors on the AV Science store front - so just wondering..

Also, what are the benefits of buying through you guys, vs the "other" places?

I also need help with a matching screen.. My room is VERY short/narrow (18' x 18'), so I know I won't be able to use a large screen, but then the extra space I can use for black cloth (oversize isn't going to hurt).

Light walls which I cannot paint, but otherwise have light control.

Any suggestions on screens to go along with the above projector?

Sorry if this is off-topic..

Thanks OP.
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post #2479 of 3271
4/30/12 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooshorttoplay View Post

OP made this a very exciting thread, which leads me to post bit off-topic (is there an appropriate place to post WTB threads?)

I tried contacting AV Science through their link, but had no success..

Where can I purchase (other than my local store, Amazon, etc.) Sony HW30 or BenQ W7000? I know there are reps in here who handle sales, but I didn't see either of the two projectors on the AV Science store front - so just wondering..

Also, what are the benefits of buying through you guys, vs the "other" places?

AVS sells both the HW30 and BenQ W7000, you just have to call in to purchase. give Mike or Mark a call, either can assist with choosing a screen for that sized room. The benefits are that these guys will support you long after the sale is completed which is rare these days for any company.

The blacks are better on the HW30 than the W7000. I would prefer the HW30 for movies, concerts, etc. The W7000's specialty is best-in-class 3D performance and still has decent 2D as well.

Mark Haflich
National Sales Manager
AV Science Sales
Call Me: 240-876-2536
Email: Mark@AVScience.com

Mike Garrett
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com
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post #2480 of 3271
4/30/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

something wasn't right with their sample, there shouldn't have been a blue cast on that projector. I never saw this on my RS40,50,55 or the RS45 I demo'd in the beginning of the shootout thread.

The RS45 is going to be noticeably brighter with much better contrast/black floor than the HC7000. With that size screen, you can crank the iris down for better contrast. Watch the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution once you get it setup - no other projector in the price range can handle this movie as well as the JVC's.

That settles it for me then. Even with an 84" screen I was never able to get more than 12Fl max on a fresh bulb, so as long as I can get the JVC to the spec min. of 14-16Fl, and keep it there for awhile before needing to switch out the bulbs, I am happy. Thank you for all the Info, you all have been a big help.

Cheers.
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post #2481 of 3271
4/30/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, i'm not sure i'm understanding the question. Can you elaborate?

MyMovies, YAMJ, Zappiti, etc? I am assuming it does not download covers and metadata automatically?
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post #2482 of 3271
4/30/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobb666 View Post

Yes I have read Kris's review, I just like to do alot of research before I make a purchase. Thanks for the info, it does help.
Yea, the lack of a CMS is a real bummer, but looking at Kris Deering's review, the color gamut is very close to the rec. 709 spec.

On most of the calibrations I've seen, I'm not sure I'd say it's THAT close compared to most other projectors from this year, given the blue luminance error combined with sat tracking errors. Sat tracking is a big deal too when it's off, color gamut is showing you one point in the space. It also might depend on how old the lamp is to how close you can get it without a CMS. I know I had a lot better calibration at 50 hours on my lamp then I do at 350.
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post #2483 of 3271
4/30/12 at 9:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVS View Post

MyMovies, YAMJ, Zappiti, etc? I am assuming it does not download covers and metadata automatically?

ahh.. got it. I used YAMJ for a while with my older popcorn hours, but haven't bothered to try it with the new 1186 devices. I believe there is a custom firmware one of the members modified.

http://www.futeko.com/forum/

Look for a fellow named 'OllyP' - there is a firmware that supports YAMJ, but you'll have to check the threads for more details. My main goal is raw 2D and 3D BD ISO playback which the EP950 is handling well so far. Once I can verify playback is stable, I'll start playing around with the jukebox options.
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post #2484 of 3271
4/30/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreyTheater View Post

If you read the "Most Favorable Positive Review" on the Amazon page, the reviewer says it does read both ISO and BD structure fine:

"I went through quite a few media players recently. Almost gave up on idea of finding the one that plays full HD rips flawlessly. The perfect player for me would be one that is reasonably priced and plays direct (m2ts) HD rip with 24p and HD audio over network from NAS, 3D is welcome too. 1185 based players were close, but were dropping audio during playback, occasionally. Popcorn Hour A-300 was horrible bug fested player. Dune HD TV-101 was almost there, but could not hold the candle with HD Audio and does not play DivX encoded video.

This player based on 1186 Realtek chip and handles full HD video and HD audio flawlessly:
24p - check
Audio sync - check
TrueHD - check
DTS-HD - check
Subtitles -check
3D-SBS/TOB - check (activate from player popup menu during playback, once in 3D - player's playback menu and info popups would work in 3D mode)
3D-SBS/TOB SRT subtitles - check
SMB shares - check
NFS shares - check
UPNP streaming - check

It plays iso and BD folder fine. Menus sometimes not shown - plays movie straight.

I tried 3D iso - some will show menu, some not. You can configure player to prompt for iso playback mode. "Direct play" plays 3D movie version correctly on every iso I tried so far. When "BD Lite" or "BD 1.0" used it may not show 3D movie for playback or just plays 3D movie straight. TV switched to 3D mode automatically. I am sure there will be few 3D bugs there, but it is not critical for me. Besides, my preferred method is "Direct play" and it works correctly.

As far as non 3D player - it works flawlessly and quite impressive for brand new product, just released . No fw updates yet published, but I feel like not updating fw, because I do not have any issues yet.

Thanks to Realtek and Micca for making it available. Job well done!

At the moment, this player will wipe floor with the likes of Dune-HD or Popcorn Hour. Not to mention full 3D support."

I may be very interested in one of these myself. I've got about 4 Terrabytes worth of BD rips right now...

EDIT: OK, I took to long to post - Zombie beat me to it...

I just found a firmware upgrade for this player. . Has anyone tried it with the update. Thinking of ordering one to Use with RS45.

http://content.miccastore.com/node/233
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post #2485 of 3271
4/30/12 at 12:23pm
Jason,

I just ordered one of the Micca EP950 devices. I'm going to try to find out if I can get it to work with MyMovies, or some comparable GUI. I'm hesitant to go back to MyMovies on the HTPC (though I've spent a lot of time setting my Blu-ray collection up for it), because of an HDMI level problem I've had in the past. No matter the results, the Micca device is a cheap "experiment," and if it allows me to access movies and skip all the tedious garbage that Blu-ray insists on forcing us to sit through, it'll be worth it. I wish Blu-ray remotes had a "Have mercy and just let me watch the movie" button.
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post #2486 of 3271
4/30/12 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Jason,

I just ordered one of the Micca EP950 devices. I'm going to try to find out if I can get it to work with MyMovies, or some comparable GUI. I'm hesitant to go back to MyMovies on the HTPC (though I've spent a lot of time setting my Blu-ray collection up for it), because of an HDMI level problem I've had in the past. No matter the results, the Micca device is a cheap "experiment," and if it allows me to access movies and skip all the tedious garbage that Blu-ray insists on forcing us to sit through, it'll be worth it. I wish Blu-ray remotes had a "Have mercy and just let me watch the movie" button.

it's so cheap, it's worth picking up just to experiment with. I'm curious to hear your thoughts after you get a chance to set it up. I'm spoiled with being able to jump from movie to movie with a quickness. 2D->3D->2D as many times as I want.

jumping right into the beginning of a movie is my favorite part - I almost forgot that BD's have opening menus (you can still get to all the subchapters, audio selection, etc).
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post #2487 of 3271
4/30/12 at 2:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I just found a firmware upgrade for this player. . Has anyone tried it with the update. Thinking of ordering one to Use with RS45.

http://content.miccastore.com/node/233

The models shipping from Amazon are already loaded with the latest firmware on their site. I've been using the v1 hardware for about 6 months now. Micca made a change to allow the correct 23.97 signal to output during 2D and 3D BD playback.
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post #2488 of 3271
4/30/12 at 3:08pm
Interested in the micca as well. What else will I need to back up my blu ray collection?
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post #2489 of 3271
4/30/12 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


The models shipping from Amazon are already loaded with the latest firmware on their site. I've been using the v1 hardware for about 6 months now. Micca made a change to allow the correct 23.97 signal to output during 2D and 3D BD playback.

Hi Zombie,

Is this a Micca only mod or is is also available on the 900a/900b? The Micca are not available in the UK, were only the "original" hitech players can be purchased.

If 2D and 3D now play correctly at 23.976 on the 900B, I might give it another try....
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post #2490 of 3271
4/30/12 at 3:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Hi Zombie,

Is this a Micca only mod or is is also available on the 900a/900b? The Micca are not available in the UK, were only the "original" hitech players can be purchased.

If 2D and 3D now play correctly at 23.976 on the 900B, I might give it another try....

Manni - Hi, as far as I can tell, it's a Micca only mod. It sounds like they had the OEM make a change to the hardware to create the correct NTSC output.

I'm testing it thoroughly over the next few days, but initial impressions are looking good so far. I haven't seen any skipping on the W7000, HW30 or the RS55.

if your interested once it's been validated, I can buy one and just send it to you in the UK. it's pretty cheap here in the US, much less than I paid for the 900B when I had it imported from the UK.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout