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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 2

post #31 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potetgullmannen View Post

I don't think it would be fair to compare the RS45 to the VW95. Not for 2D and certainly not for 3d. RS55 vs VW95 -then we have a discussion. I've seen both, calibrated and in dark enviroment, 2d and 3d. Now I own a VW95.

Fair or not I would like someone to compare them. I'm a fan of the Sony's and would love to see an honest assessment, not judged on the price difference. I expect the Sony to be better at certain aspects.

If both are in the same room tuned properly. And no one told you which one you were viewing . Could you honestly pick it over the RS45 for 2D movies is the burning question in my mind?

As much I love Sony, I've always thought they were a tad overpriced.
Hopefully a professional reviewer who's not motivated by sales, will get a chance to do the comparison.

Besides e-shift, CMS and the extra aperture. What's the difference between the RS45 and RS55 in actual parts? The extra aperture gives higher contrast.
Being from all the reports I've seen the RS45 will have higher native over the Sony without needing the extra aperture.
Add the out board processing for the (CMS nuts)out there to the RS45 for tuning color. What would set the vw95 and RS45/ processor apart for 2D movies?
post #32 of 3271
This year, the RS-45 was the bang-for-buck deal for 2D.

I like 3D ok, but honestly they need to setup better training for the people doing the 3D movies, and they need better techniques. In animated films it seems to work very consistently. For everything else, the 3D effect is too varying IMHO, it is inconsistent from one shot to the next, the constant changes in depth causes eye fatigue and disorientation. 3D has a ways to go yet IMHO.

That said, there are some really cool things in 3D. I'd like to see some good space or flying stuff in 3D, that would be fun. I could see some SCI FI movies being really good in 3D, but then they'll probably mess up the effect like they do in most movies.
post #33 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potetgullmannen View Post

I don't think it would be fair to compare the RS45 to the VW95. Not for 2D and certainly not for 3d. RS55 vs VW95 -then we have a discussion. I've seen both, calibrated and in dark enviroment, 2d and 3d. Now I own a VW95.

Thanks. I already own the VW95 and LOVE it, but am still interested in hearing how you thought the two compare. Please join us over at the VW95 owners thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21395390 and let us know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I just finished, the calibrations took a while. i'll start updating the first page with lumens measurements @ D65 for all 3d projectors in 2D and 3D.

edit: the first page has the 2D and 3D lumens information for each projector along with the # of hours on the lamps.

Thanks for doing this. I think its important, however, to note where the pjs are in relation to their short, mid and long throw - to give the best apples to apples comparison. For instance if the placement is such that pj 1 is at its short throw, and pj 2 is at its mid throw, then that will give an unfair increase in its lumens for pj 1, making it look x% brighter in comparison than it actually is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

...As much I love Sony, I've always thought they were a tad overpriced.

Yes I agree that was the case. However I applaud Sony for waking up this year and pricing the VW95 very competitively to the RS55. That opened to door up for me to finally make the switch from JVC to Sony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

This year, the RS-45 was the bang-for-buck deal for 2D...

No question about it. At least compared to the RS55 and VW95 the RS45 is clearly the price/performance leader, for those looking to decided based on that criteria.
post #34 of 3271
Thanks for all the info Jason!

As far as your lumens measurements, what was the zoom position for each projector and in the case of the 45, the iris setting?
post #35 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Thanks for doing this. I think its important, however, to note where the pjs are in relation to their short, mid and long throw - to give the best apples to apples comparison. For instance if the placement is such that pj 1 is at its short throw, and pj 2 is at its mid throw, then that will give an unfair increase in its lumens for pj 1, making it look x% brighter in comparison than it actually is.


The BenQ was at it closest throw, I'll have to calculate the JVC and Sony's position, although subjectively, they were all very close to my eyes 18' from the screen.

I only had so much time with the projectors, but it was enough to get some ideas of the strengths and weaknesses of each model.

** editing the main page with ghosting information.
post #36 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks for all the info Jason!

As far as your lumens measurements, what was the zoom position for each projector and in the case of the 45, the iris setting?

The BenQ was @ the shortest to fill the 142" @ ~18feet. The HW30 and JVC were in the same position. someone throw me a bone and calculate the throw based on the #'s, I am too tired being up all night playing around with these projectors.

ghosting info is next, I used the BenQ glasses on the W7000, Original JVC & new JVC + MV3D's on the RS45 and the Sony glasses that ship with the HW30 and the MV3D's as well.
post #37 of 3271
That's right at 1.75x current zoom for the JVC, so it's halfway between shortest throw and mid-zoom for the JVC.

The Sony is almost right at mid-zoom at that level (1.33x out of 1.60x).

The Benq w7000 is actually a tad short of max zoom/closest throw and is at 1.43x zoom instead of max zoom (1.5x), but I guess it depends how exact you measured it from the lens or you are just estimating it was about 18'. 16 feet 9 inches for a 142" 16:9 screen would be shortest throw for the Benq, based on the 1.62 min. throw ratio.
post #38 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The BenQ was @ the shortest to fill the 142" @ ~18feet. The HW30 and JVC were in the same position. someone throw me a bone and calculate the throw based on the #'s, I am too tired being up all night playing around with these projectors.

ghosting info is next, I used the BenQ glasses on the W7000, Original JVC & new JVC + MV3D's on the RS45 and the Sony glasses that ship with the HW30 and the MV3D's as well.

Thanks!

For the JVC, if we use 1.37 as the short throw, the 45 would have had to of been at 14.16' to get a max lumen measurement. So the JVC was nearly 4' back from short throw, so max lumens should be a bit higher for it.

Looks like the Sony would have to be moved up about the same distance for a max reading.

Bottom line is both the Sony and JVC will produce even more lumens at min throw
post #39 of 3271
Too bad the RS45 didn't come out as nice as the HW30 and W7000 in the calibrations. Seems like such an added expense to add a outboard CMS just to reel in the RS45. Come on JVC get with it and add a CMS to your lower model too. Still waiting to hear about the black performance comparisons. Someone mentioned in another thread that their RS45 had dropped between 5&9% lumins after only 60 hrs, is that normal ?
post #40 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Toe - the irises were open for all lumen measurements.

Coder - I just measured, all 3d projectors were close to 18' from the screen, but I might have been able to move the W7000 in a little closer. Usually I would run my RS50 and HW30 at about 16'.

All 3 were torches on the HP, near eye level, no complaints with lumens.

edit: adding screenshots, through the glasses of the JVC, BenQ and Sony. I used 3 scenes. Despicable Me, Sammy's Adventure and a scene from Imax Grand Canyon.
post #41 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTS View Post

Too bad the RS45 didn't come out as nice as the HW30 and W7000 in the calibrations. Seems like such an added expense to add a outboard CMS just to reel in the RS45. Come on JVC get with it and add a CMS to your lower model too. Still waiting to hear about the black performance comparisons. Someone mentioned in another thread that their RS45 had dropped between 5&9% lumins after only 60 hrs, is that normal ?

I just measured at 100 hours. My starting point was 12 hours, measured at the screen center. I've lost 4 lux in calibrated mode (109 lux at 12 hrs).Lost 10 lux in 3D mode OTB(300 lux at 12 hrs).
Brightness is fine at the moment.
post #42 of 3271
Zombie,
Art noticed on his engineering model that the W7000 was brighter with brilliant color off. By any chance did you check to see if this is still an issue?
post #43 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appledoc View Post

Zombie,
Art noticed on his engineering model that the W7000 was brighter with brilliant color off. By any chance did you check to see if this is still an issue?

I didn't notice this as an issue when measuring the lumens on the W7000. this projector had version 1.0 firmware.


Edit: 3D screenshots are posted in the first thread.
post #44 of 3271
Very interesting 3d shots/comparison. The JVC clearly lags behind the other 2 projectors in this area The 7000 is obviously a bit better than the Sony, but not by a huge amount. I am guessing the 7000 would pull even further ahead of the Sony for 120hz content, and would be blowing the JVC out of the water at that point (it already is). It seems for anyone interested in 3d wanting just one projector and doesnt need a motorized lens, the Sony is clearly the best all around unit.

Then again I could not run the Sony like I do my JVC without killing off a huge part of the contrast since I like to use the manual iris at which point the DI is off which means relying on the native which is considerably less than the JVC. For my setup, viewing habits and the way I like to run the projector with my HP, the 45 was the best choice, but for others I could certainly see the Sony getting the nod.

As much as I would love to add the BenQ just for 3d, it is about $1000 more than I would like to spend for a dedicated 3d only unit so I am probably just going to make due with the JVC for now. If I can find a 7000 down the road next year or so for around this price, I would probably jump on it.
post #45 of 3271
Great Job Jason! You ever consider doing reviews for a living? or as a second job?

The Sony is looking great, with very little ghosting but the 3D edge will always go to the DLP. I think the Sony will be the best overall projector.
post #46 of 3271
Just my impressions of the screen shots -- the Sony looks great, not perfect, but a small compromise. Now I'm interested in the VW95, and I understand why people love it! The Sony 30 and 95 probably offer the best compromise of any projectors under $20,000 or 2D and 3D.

Thanks for doing this. What an eye opener. This forum is THE place to be for the best info on video.


I'm not sure I could live with the slight ghosting on the Sony, but no way could I tolerate the ghosting on the JVC.
post #47 of 3271
Jason,

For your screen shots, the original shots were taken from which projector?
post #48 of 3271
Just got back from Jason's. 330 mile RT road trip. A lot of work on three projectors and not a lot of sleep.

The only think I would empasize is that with the BenQ in 2D one should add a ND2 filter in front of the lens. With it the on offs and black reference levels become competitive. Without it . . . .
post #49 of 3271
Mark are you saying that if you put a ND2 filter on the W7000 it's blacks get close to the other 2? How hard is it to mount an ND2 filter to the W7000? Are there different versions of ND2 filters?
post #50 of 3271
Thank your for doing the shoot out. For me the Sony is now a choice and I wasn't even really looking at it. I like the SXRD, but I wanted good lag time for gaming. I need to compare it to the 7800 now. Although I don't like the 7800s glasses, I want to see if they improve the brightness compared to other active shutter glass like they say.
post #51 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Just got back from Jason's. 330 mile RT road trip. A lot of work on three projectors and not a lot of sleep.

The only think I would empasize is that with the BenQ in 2D one should ad a ND2 filter in front of the lens. With it the on offs and black reference levels become competitive. Without it . . . .

Or not use an HP2.8 gain screen. Don't need it with the BenQ.
post #52 of 3271
Great work on the shootout guys. I am most interested in hearing your thoughts on how the black levels compared. Did you have a close look at this?
post #53 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Great work on the shootout guys. I am most interested in hearing your thoughts on how the black levels compared. Did you have a close look at this?

Definitely. When I get home tonight i'll finish the 3d and 2d impressions.
post #54 of 3271
Awesome work Zombie
post #55 of 3271
From the pictures I like the Sony and Benq.
post #56 of 3271
After looking at the screen shot, I have a feeling that AVS sould refill their Sony HW30 stock...
post #57 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

After looking at the screen shot, I have a feeling that AVS sould refill their Sony HW30 stock...

Agreed.
post #58 of 3271
If anybody has experience with the SP8602 I'd love to know how its 2D stacks up to the BenQ and possibly the Sony. I'm using a BenQ W600+ for 3D and I'd love to par down to one unit if possible. The Ghosting on the JVC turns me off so I'm not really interested in it.

Also does anybody know if the BenQ needs to be sent in for firmware upgrades? I've had both the W5000 and W2000 and it was a real PITA to send these in.
post #59 of 3271
Agree with others Sony looks like best all around projector (reliable unlike JVC's history with lamp problems, lamps less expensive than BenQ and especially JVC lamps) and very minimal ghosting in 3D. I've seen the HW30 many times at retailers and am always impressed with its 2D performance (many retailers don't have it setup for 3D demo).

For me the ghosting in the JVC is a deal killer despite not watching many 3D movies (in addition to concern about possible early lamp dimming). As far as I know no one rents 3D BluRays so are you willing to play Russian Roulette in buying a 3D BluRay to find out it ghosts a lot on the JVC? I know if I had the JVC I wouldn't use the 3D part due to ghosting which annoys the hell out of me and takes me out of the movie.

Price is a factor though, I believe the Sony is quite a bit more expensive than the BenQ although you get a longer warranty with the Sony and less expensive lamp replacement cost so perhaps in the end close to a wash?

I'd like to see some comments on sharpness differences from the reviewers, I'm a sharpness freak and haven't heard any comments in that area. Also, comments about the W7000 locking up for 1-2 minutes when switching between 2D and 3D?? And if so what is BenQ's policies for distributing firmware updates (hopefully not via mailing it to them!!)
post #60 of 3271
Duh almost forgot, great work so far!
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