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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 11

post #301 of 3271
someone asked if anyone else is releasing a 1080p 3d projector...supposed to be out now?? vivitek H1086-3D.. http://www.projectorcentral.com/news_story_1666.htm
post #302 of 3271
here's another page http://www.vivitekusa.com/v_pressrel...sp?press_id=25
post #303 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

here's another page http://www.vivitekusa.com/v_pressrel...sp?press_id=25

Thanks for that. Looking at the data sheet it is not for me as it appears to have far less features, flexibility and of course is vaporware at present.
post #304 of 3271
lol...I dont know what vaporware is but it sounds funny!
post #305 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

lol...I dont know what vaporware is but it sounds funny!

Well OK, since you went to the trouble to post up the Vivitek info I went through the trouble to post up the wikipedia definition of vaporware:

Quote:


Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially canceled.
post #306 of 3271
Now that I've had a few days with the 5010, I can post some more detailed impressions. I'll start with 3D:

This is the best 3D projector I've seen and I've tested the Acer 5360, Sony VW90, JVC X7, and JVC X70. I've also owned/seen panasonic VT20 plasma, and Sony HX929 LCD.

There is VERY little ghosting. I tried all the torture clips from Ghosts of Pantagoria, Despicable me, Grand Canyon, Ultimate Gs, etc. Most scenes have no ghosting whatsoever while some have very faint ghosting. It's miles ahead of the JVC and Sony and even the panny plasma. I'll put it this way. I returned my Sony HMD after I got the Epson Ghosting I would say is a non issue with this projector. Jason, can you post time stamps from your clips and I can post the exact same pics for comparison.

The brightness is really good. It's so bright in dynamic mode that it's brighter then I would normally watch in 2D eco mode with the Epson! You do sacrifice colour accuracy in Dynamic mode but cinema 3D is also quite bright but with more accurate colour.

Motion and sharpness look great in 3D, but I think the JVC X70 has the edge in 3D colour and sharpness. It's too bad the JVC has way too much ghosting or it could have been a contender.

On the negative side. The Epson is pretty damn loud in high lamp mode. I don't really notice it after a few minutes as while it is loud, it doesn't have an annoying hum, buzz, or other distracting sound.

Still, the Acer has NO ghosting, but the Epson is as close as it gets to a great 3D picture from a non DLP projector that I"ve seen.

The 2D is also pretty damn amazing, even after coming from an X70. I'll post 2D impressions tomorrow.
post #307 of 3271
Did you ever have or own an 8700ub?
post #308 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Now that I've had a few days with the 5010, I can post some more detailed impressions. I'll start with 3D:

This is the best 3D projector I've seen and I've tested the Acer 5360, Sony VW90, JVC X7, and JVC X70. I've also owned/seen panasonic VT20 plasma, and Sony HX929 LCD.

There is VERY little ghosting. I tried all the torture clips from Ghosts of Pantagoria, Despicable me, Grand Canyon, Ultimate Gs, etc. Most scenes have no ghosting whatsoever while some have very faint ghosting. It's miles ahead of the JVC and Sony and even the panny plasma. I'll put it this way. I returned my Sony HMD after I got the Epson Ghosting I would say is a non issue with this projector. Jason, can you post time stamps from your clips and I can post the exact same pics for comparison.

thanks for the feedback on the 5010 so far. If you get a chance, I'd like to know how the white / black field uniformity is (any bright corners, or off-colors on an all-white background). This seems to be getting popular reviews recently.

Are you seeing any flicker in the glasses? which glasses are you using?

time stamps:

Dispicable Me - 5:27
Sammy's - 30:05
Grand Canyon - 12:08

If you could take a few shots through the glasses (left eye) of those scenes for comparison, that would be great.
post #309 of 3271
A 15' wide HP screen should get rid of the JVC's bright corners, as long as you are sitting in the middle :P
post #310 of 3271
thanks... m2c... now i know what vapoware is.. I'm waiting for the vivitek to be realeased and I'm hoping the delay with it..if it does in fact get released' is that vivitek is releasing after all bugs, problems are worked out and it doesnt have half the problems these projectors have that have been released in the last few months have..I'm sure you know what I mean..acers side by side issue..epsons gaming lag..benq's multiple problems..jvc's ghosting..optimas not really being that bright in 3d..it seems the sony and the panny are the 2 most done/quality all around projectors...I, like others are waiting for a great all around projector. I'd have jumped all over the 5010 the only thing that stopped me from the purchase of the 5010 is the gaming lag..other than that it sounds like the best bang for the buck..as far as blacks..colors' brightness and features..I dont care about no di in 3d..and id never use fi..not for games, movies, cartoons, sports or anything. I hope the rumored firmware update that epson says they are working on because they are aware of the lag problem with gaming..will not only be on the 3010..but the 5010 as well..only time will tell..but I'm hoping that these problems mentioned above..are all addressed by the proper manufacturers and fixed..but at this time I won't be buying even though I'm ready with the $$$ until they do.
post #311 of 3271
These shots are taken through the left lens. I'm using the Panasonic 3D3 glasses. This is on glasses brightness set to high and in 3D dynamic mode.

The results are amazing to say the least. Epson has a winner on their hands. Can't wait to give some 2D impressions tomorrow.
LL
LL
post #312 of 3271
The quality of the shots is not the greatest (iphone) but if you look at my iphone shots of the X70, you can clearly see ghosting and I can confirm that through the glasses there is no ghosting in those shots at all. I'll test Sammy tomorrow.
post #313 of 3271
one last nugget until later........

The motion on the Epson is better then both the VW90 and X70 after running the motion tests!!

Yes, I did own both the 6500 and 8700 epson prior. This is using the new D9 chip which is 480hz and has a higher fill rate then the D8 chip (6500, 8700)

Another thing is that I can't believe I have PERFECT convergence. I'm talking not even 1/4 a pixel off. I went through 3 6500 which had at least 1 pixel off and the 8700 which was far from perfect. I think I may have gotten a golden sample with the 5010 :-)
post #314 of 3271
Damn you conan48. Now I have to rethink my plans. But really, that is good news there and thanks.
post #315 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Now that I've had a few days with the 5010, I can post some more detailed impressions. I'll start with 3D:

This is the best 3D projector I've seen and I've tested the Acer 5360, Sony VW90, JVC X7, and JVC X70. I've also owned/seen panasonic VT20 plasma, and Sony HX929 LCD.

There is VERY little ghosting. I tried all the torture clips from Ghosts of Pantagoria, Despicable me, Grand Canyon, Ultimate Gs, etc. Most scenes have no ghosting whatsoever while some have very faint ghosting. It's miles ahead of the JVC and Sony and even the panny plasma. I'll put it this way. I returned my Sony HMD after I got the Epson Ghosting I would say is a non issue with this projector. Jason, can you post time stamps from your clips and I can post the exact same pics for comparison.

The brightness is really good. It's so bright in dynamic mode that it's brighter then I would normally watch in 2D eco mode with the Epson! You do sacrifice colour accuracy in Dynamic mode but cinema 3D is also quite bright but with more accurate colour.

Motion and sharpness look great in 3D, but I think the JVC X70 has the edge in 3D colour and sharpness. It's too bad the JVC has way too much ghosting or it could have been a contender.

On the negative side. The Epson is pretty damn loud in high lamp mode. I don't really notice it after a few minutes as while it is loud, it doesn't have an annoying hum, buzz, or other distracting sound.

Still, the Acer has NO ghosting, but the Epson is as close as it gets to a great 3D picture from a non DLP projector that I"ve seen.

Your findings match mine! I also run it in high lamp, high brightness with both the Epson an Panasonic 3D3 glasses. What is curious about the 5010 is that it's much louder in ceiling mount high lamp vs. tabletop high lamp. I thought my unit had a defective fan (resulting in abnormally high noise) so I had Epson send me a replacement unit, but it was just as loud. i guess this thing is so BRIGHT it needs more fan RPMs. It's not really noticeable during normal viewing with sound on. The Epson 5010 is probably the best 3D option for those with very large low gain screens, and is very flexible from an installation standpoint (good zoom, huge lens shift capabilities).
post #316 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Now that I've had a few days with the 5010, I can post some more detailed impressions. I'll start with 3D:

This is the best 3D projector I've seen and I've tested the Acer 5360, Sony VW90, JVC X7, and JVC X70. I've also owned/seen panasonic VT20 plasma, and Sony HX929 LCD.

There is VERY little ghosting. I tried all the torture clips from Ghosts of Pantagoria, Despicable me, Grand Canyon, Ultimate Gs, etc. Most scenes have no ghosting whatsoever while some have very faint ghosting. It's miles ahead of the JVC and Sony and even the panny plasma. I'll put it this way. I returned my Sony HMD after I got the Epson Ghosting I would say is a non issue with this projector. Jason, can you post time stamps from your clips and I can post the exact same pics for comparison.

The brightness is really good. It's so bright in dynamic mode that it's brighter then I would normally watch in 2D eco mode with the Epson! You do sacrifice colour accuracy in Dynamic mode but cinema 3D is also quite bright but with more accurate colour.

Motion and sharpness look great in 3D, but I think the JVC X70 has the edge in 3D colour and sharpness. It's too bad the JVC has way too much ghosting or it could have been a contender.

On the negative side. The Epson is pretty damn loud in high lamp mode. I don't really notice it after a few minutes as while it is loud, it doesn't have an annoying hum, buzz, or other distracting sound.

Still, the Acer has NO ghosting, but the Epson is as close as it gets to a great 3D picture from a non DLP projector that I"ve seen.

The 2D is also pretty damn amazing, even after coming from an X70. I'll post 2D impressions tomorrow.

Thanks for your impressions. What is the black level like in 3D mode without an active DI?

I love the little Acer and have no problems at all with colour (tint) through the Nvidia glasses ( the Nvidia mode on the Acer is calibrated to take this into consideration).

The Acer has been my best consumer purchaser ever -- I've owned 10 projectors and some cost 30 Xs what the Acer cost, but it looks like it may become a 3D backup to the Epson!

In the U.S. they say "IN GOD WE TRUST". In Canada we say, "IN CONAN48 WE TRUST". Here goes a leap of faith.
post #317 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Yes, I did own both the 6500 and 8700 epson prior. This is using the new D9 chip which is 480hz and has a higher fill rate then the D8 chip (6500, 8700)

Another thing is that I can't believe I have PERFECT convergence. I'm talking not even 1/4 a pixel off. I went through 3 6500 which had at least 1 pixel off and the 8700 which was far from perfect. I think I may have gotten a golden sample with the 5010 :-)

I imagine Epson has tightened their tolerance for convergence since they are pushing into a slightly higher price bracket.

I read earlier in the forum that the old pixel fill was 52%-D7, 43%-D6, and the new pixel fill is 65% for D9. That is a pretty big difference if the post I read was accurate, but I'd still like to see LCD get to 80%+ to close the gap of DLP and LCOS.

The 8700ub and previous models used the d7 chip. I was wondering if the higher pixel fill significantly improved the image over the 8700ub of the D9, which I think is about 13% increased compared to the D7 (52% vs. 65%).
post #318 of 3271
I gave in, Epson 5010 will be here tomorrow before noon. I didn't order any 3D glasses in the event I don't like it, so I will do a comparison to the Benq and RS45 for strictly 2D.

Visa is probably in love with me right now
post #319 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

...

The motion on the Epson is better then both the VW90 and X70 after running the motion tests!!

...

Can you clarify what the "motion tests" are?

... Altan
post #320 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

I gave in, Epson 5010 will be here tomorrow before noon. I didn't order any 3D glasses in the event I don't like it, so I will do a comparison to the Benq and RS45 for strictly 2D.

Visa is probably in love with me right now

saturday delivery, that's awesome.

Tom measured the native on/off on the Epson @ ~5,000 and the HW30 was similar, but a little higher (going by Cine4home's measurements). I am curious to hear how you think the black levels compare to the other projectors.

I watched several scenes from the Matrix and the original 'Blade' last night, these are great dark movies with mixed contrast scenes to test.

I see an RJ45 port on the back for an external emitter. I wonder if the MV3D IR receiver will work with the 5010 (it works with the Sony emitter but not the JVC emitter).

let us know how black and white field uniformity is if you get a chance. thanks!
post #321 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Thanks for your impressions. What is the black level like in 3D mode without an active DI?

I love the little Acer and have no problems at all with colour (tint) through the Nvidia glasses ( the Nvidia mode on the Acer is calibrated to take this into consideration).

The Acer has been my best consumer purchaser ever -- I've owned 10 projectors and some cost 30 Xs what the Acer cost, but it looks like it may become a 3D backup to the Epson!

In the U.S. they say "IN GOD WE TRUST". In Canada we say, "IN CONAN48 WE TRUST". Here goes a leap of faith.

Totatly agree with you Deja! Love the little Acer in 3D mode, and have no problems with colour tint or whatever. Looks fantastic with the Nvidia glasses. Watched some Ice Age 3 3D and it looked amazing. Great color and brightness, and no ghosting of course

Thanks Conan for your mini review. I think the Epson is a smart choice. The peace of mind of having the best customer service in the PJ business is the biggest reason I'm considering the 5010 as well.
post #322 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

I gave in, Epson 5010 will be here tomorrow before noon. I didn't order any 3D glasses in the event I don't like it, so I will do a comparison to the Benq and RS45 for strictly 2D.

Visa is probably in love with me right now

So you'll be selling the RS-45 if the 2D PQ is close enough on the Epson I imagine, right?
post #323 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

I gave in, Epson 5010 will be here tomorrow before noon. I didn't order any 3D glasses in the event I don't like it, so I will do a comparison to the Benq and RS45 for strictly 2D.

Visa is probably in love with me right now

I almost spit my coffee out when I read this. I don't suppose this will be for gaming eh?
post #324 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


saturday delivery, that's awesome.

Tom measured the native on/off on the Epson @ ~5,000 and the HW30 was similar, but a little higher (going by Cine4home's measurements). I am curious to hear how you think the black levels compare to the other projectors.

I watched several scenes from the Matrix and the original 'Blade' last night, these are great dark movies with mixed contrast scenes to test.

I see an RJ45 port on the back for an external emitter. I wonder if the MV3D IR receiver will work with the 5010 (it works with the Sony emitter but not the JVC emitter).

let us know how black and white field uniformity is if you get a chance. thanks!

Patience was never one of my strong points, although I did wait over half a year to get 3 MFW-15's from av123 once

My JVC has decent black uniformity from what I've seen but I did notice the bright corners issue on a couple scenes from Transformers 3. There is a scene where cybertron is shown out in space and the black levels on the JVC made my jaw drop, it will be one of the first scenes I teat on the 5010.

My receiver and bluray player both have dual-out HDMI jacks so I will overlay the images over the other and black out whichever I am not using during each scene.
post #325 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

So you'll be selling the RS-45 if the 2D PQ is close enough on the Epson I imagine, right?

Correct. My thought here is the Epson can fill the 3D gap that I have and I can just buy a regular 2D-only DLP for gaming, much along your Viewsonic that you keep praising From what I've seen it is a total crap-shoot if you get an epson without any convergence issues. If I do keep the Epson and end up getting another unit for gaming, I will be happy to send it to Zombie to compare against his units if he is up for it.

I may still check out the Acer 9500 though if Newegg or Amazon ever get it in stock.

Mike - This will be for my main Theater projector, no gaming on this one and little TV usage. As mentioned above I will still need to fill that gap with something else down the line.

I just went back through my purchase history and this will make my 13th projector this year during 2011 (if you count the 720p units)
post #326 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post


Patience was never one of my strong points, although I did wait over half a year to get 3 MFW-15's from av123 once

My JVC has decent black uniformity from what I've seen but I did notice the bright corners issue on a couple scenes from Transformers 3. There is a scene where cybertron is shown out in space and the black levels on the JVC made my jaw drop, it will be one of the first scenes I teat on the 5010.

My receiver and bluray player both have dual-out HDMI jacks so I will overlay the images over the other and black out whichever I am not using during each scene.

From what I heard from a friend you will not be disappointed with the Epson's black level.
post #327 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Now that I've had a few days with the 5010, I can post some more detailed impressions. I'll start with 3D:

This is the best 3D projector I've seen and I've tested the Acer 5360, Sony VW90, JVC X7, and JVC X70. I've also owned/seen panasonic VT20 plasma, and Sony HX929 LCD.

There is VERY little ghosting. I tried all the torture clips from Ghosts of Pantagoria, Despicable me, Grand Canyon, Ultimate Gs, etc. Most scenes have no ghosting whatsoever while some have very faint ghosting. It's miles ahead of the JVC and Sony and even the panny plasma.

Well its certainly better than the JVC, but the 3D ghosting was not good enough for my level of experience. Someone needs to post Mark Grand Canyon Tree picture. It is a reference test.
Without a doubt Epson will finish their work next year by also adding frame interpolation and a dynamic iris. I can't remember if there was flicker, as I spent most of my effort trying to sort out the multiple issues of the Sony.

The 2d is very nice, just like everyone has reported. Congratulations Epson!

I will update my previous post soon with my final conclusions.
post #328 of 3271
Thread Starter 
hifi - which Sony are you referring to, the 30, 90 or 95? what problems did you run into?

I thought you were set on the Mitsubishi 7800?

For the 5010, I'd like to see good screen shots of the 3 scenes I posted in the mini-shootout. left eye on these scenes:

time stamps:

Despicable Me - 5:27
Sammy's - 30:05
Grand Canyon - 12:08
post #329 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Correct. My thought here is the Epson can fill the 3D gap that I have and I can just buy a regular 2D-only DLP for gaming, much along your Viewsonic that you keep praising

Cool, let us know after you see the 5010 (I know you will).

The Viewsonic is probably the best sub-$1000 NON-3D gaming one, since the Benq's have gaming lag. The Benq w1200 or w1100 are a tad sharper and the w1200 does have a lot darker blacks, but they have the gaming lag issue. I paid a ridiculously low price for the Viewsonic, and the Benq's are better, but even new they cost quite a bit more.

The Benq's have more RBE as well.
post #330 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

hifi - which Sony are you referring to, the 30, 90 or 95? what problems did you run into?

For the 5010, I'd like to see good screen shots of the 3 scenes I posted in the mini-shootout. left eye on these scenes:

time stamps:

Despicable Me - 5:27
Sammy's - 30:05
Grand Canyon - 12:08

Exactly. We both want the same pictures so everyone can be on the same page.
It was two samples of the 30ES. As you report there is virtually no ghosting with the tree scene. Sony went from the worst to the best in one year here!
But focusing the lens just was difficult with the "Projector Central" documented noise and sub-prime lens. Two people adjust the 30's lens and could not even see the pixel outline with a paused picture. There was also flicker. These were under causal viewing circumstances.

The ghosting outline is the same width and consistent between the displays. What is different is some can be lighter (Sharp 735, Elite Pro). Others will be darker (Epson, Sony). The lighter is most apparent in overall dark scenes with some thin bright objects and result in a glassy appearance. The darker side (with a double tree bark outline against the sky) is more obvious or irritating.
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