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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 105

post #3121 of 3271
Hopefully this year we don't get a bunch of projectors with pixel mapping issues like last year. Right now my plan is either sell my RS-45 and replace it with the least costly JVC with e-shift... Or just get a 3D DLP to add to the JVC. I haven't decided on my real enjoyment that I can get out of 3D yet, only owning the JVC RS-45 it's kind of hard to know (have watched some 3D on Epson 5010, but not much).

JVC 3D with e-shift vs. a (DLP with 3D + keep JVC RS-45)...

Tough decision, I think the cost is about the same if I sell the current PJ.
Edited by coderguy - 9/17/12 at 9:16pm
post #3122 of 3271
What is going to be the price and guestimate preorder price for the jvc with eshift
post #3123 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This would be an opportunity for them to clean house in the 8-10k price range. The long lasting lamps, quality lens, DC4, etc. They would need to get the lumen output higher than the previous models.
That would be 1 long pre-order list for those waiting for a 3D projector with those specs. cool.gif

I have a Marantz, even though it is only 720P, I still hang onto that projector.
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post #3124 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

A3D - great 3D for a conversion, sound track will knock your socks off. All shots through the left lens.
a3D-2.jpg
a3D-3.jpg
It looks like your projector needs to be calibrated for 3D, the color temperature through the glasses is too high (in 9000K region). But then again I guess the image won't be as bright because red is lacking here.
post #3125 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

It looks like your projector needs to be calibrated for 3D, the color temperature through the glasses is too high (in 9000K region). But then again I guess the image won't be as bright because red is lacking here.

There are some unique, somewhat drab colors in specific scenes in this particular film.

same calibration through the left lens. Taken right after the same viewing as Avengers 3D.

Plus the camera's white balance reacts to the tint on the glasses, etc. It looks quite nice in person.

a3D-10.jpg
post #3126 of 3271
Not to mention the other variables that affect color...

Even if we had reference level monitors perfectly calibrated, and his screenshot was achieved with near neutral color balance from the source, well you STILL can't judge colors from a single scene because the original shot in the way they have the camera setup (or just quality of the camera or settings) and the lighting affects the color. Even when they are outside under the SUN (and the SUN IS D65), but the problem is if you have anything reflecting the light or if they have a UV and ND filter on camera to film in the sun. So the ND filter is neutral (yah but probably not other settings they adjusted to the image after the filter was attached, always so many variables). Movies don't even use D65 lighting most of the time anyhow, you might have better luck with a documentary filmed outside (but even then...). You would need a scene that had a confirmed D65 image which was very carefully color matched in balanced lighting. Every time you added a new source (for instance the camera taking the screenshot), then you would need to re-match the color balance again.

So we're about a nickel short and 3-4 color balance measurements.

Also, you can't blame someone's calibration because all of our calibrations are wrong to some degree if you want to get down to it (drift + meter errors + software bugs + reflective surfaces + sat tracking + concessions we make). My projector might look a lot more accurate in a given scene, whereas in another scene it looks worse than your projector.
Edited by coderguy - 9/18/12 at 1:53pm
post #3127 of 3271
When you guys calibrate your systems how long does it usually take you? Finally a night off work
post #3128 of 3271
It just depends on so many factors, anywhere between 1 hour on a projector that is really very close to accurate already and easy to calibrate to a full day when you're fighting some type of issue. You can spend as much time as you want trying to get all the tiny errors out of it, but most of the time 1-4 hours, and then 15-30 minutes for later touchups.
post #3129 of 3271
Is there certain systems you use or training? Or is this something a regular person can buy and figure out
post #3130 of 3271
I think any semi-technically minded person can figure it out, google "calibration for dummies". That article can be slightly overwhelming because so much info on one page, and also some of the terms he uses are slightly dated (but not really). Check the "color for newbs" article in my signature. However, that doesn't mean you'll be as good as the best calibrators (and most of us in here aren't the best), the people that are the best are the ones that do it for a living every day just because the more you do it the better you get at making decisions. The hardest thing about calibrating isn't doing the calibration itself, it's deciding what accuracy to concede if the calibration does not come out perfectly. Also, calibrating individual gamma points and stuff like can be tricky going back and forth to gray scale (not to mention super tedious). Although most projectors these days don't have that problem as much, but I think on a new lamp the calibration is easier anyways, so that is good for new people. When you do it on an older lamp, it's just harder especially if you have to keep deciding accuracy vs. brightness.
post #3131 of 3271
I remember reading calibrating projectors often is the way to go because of the bulb issue.. I was going to pay someone to calibrate mine when I got it but they said it was pointless because after so many hours it will need it again
post #3132 of 3271
Depends on the projector really to whether hiring a PRO is worth it, some DLP projectors I've seen for instance don't drift that much on the accuracy (a little), but I mean they stay ballpark. I'd say for the LCOS projectors, probably better to learn how to do it yourself. Keep in mind that calibrating todays' projectors (depending on the PJ) often produces a much less significant performance improvement than in the past, but I will say that like on my JVC RS-45, you just have to calibrate the GAMMA and gray-scale as it started pretty far off. I didn't think the Sony vw70 I owned needed much calibration or the Mits hc4000, and I say that by meaning it helped a little to calibrate them, I mean it still looked better, but only a small amount.
post #3133 of 3271
Hmmm interesting I guess alot of reading tonight for me
post #3134 of 3271
Wow this is one hell of a guide calibration for dummies lol... Looks like it takes care of it all
post #3135 of 3271
Finally measured to see screens I can fix downstairs..

Widescreen 2:35 Max is 132 inches wide and 59 inches height

16:9: 125 inches wide and 70 inches in height...

These are including the actual frame as well... Now to see how big I can go
post #3136 of 3271
O.K. I got a big surprise -- no DI on the Sony for 3D! The same goes for the VW95? What are these companies thinking? Maybe only Panasonic got this right.8.gif
post #3137 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by only you View Post

O.K. I got a big surprise -- no DI on the Sony for 3D! The same goes for the VW95? What are these companies thinking? Maybe only Panasonic got this right.8.gif

Strange. I hope at least the 'film' MotionFlow mode (Dark Frame Insertion, or DFI) is at least available in 3D? I wonder if they don't allow DFI in 3D b/c it dims the image. That'd be a bummer. Most projectors this round seem to have opened up their 2D features to 3D, e.g. Panasonic & Epson. Would be a shame if Sony was the only company that didn't.
post #3138 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There are some unique, somewhat drab colors in specific scenes in this particular film.
same calibration through the left lens. Taken right after the same viewing as Avengers 3D.
Plus the camera's white balance reacts to the tint on the glasses, etc. It looks quite nice in person.
a3D-10.jpg
The above photo still look blueish, assuming it was shot under the blinding sun. It's only an assumption though as I haven't seen this source. But I definitely see wrong color temperature on known sources when I see one. Here's your photo against source (screenshot taken from the file):
a3D-3.jpgavengersx.jpg

I totally believe you it looks gorgeous nevertheless. And it may be indeed your camera WB settings (you should've checked it before posting then). I simply suggested it may look even better if calibrated through the glasses for 3D specifically. smile.gif
Edited by Elix - 9/19/12 at 8:34am
post #3139 of 3271
well now add the picture of the girls lol would love to see if they improve
post #3140 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I totally believe you it looks gorgeous nevertheless. And it may be indeed your camera WB settings (you should've checked it before posting then). I simply suggested it may look even better if calibrated through the glasses for 3D specifically. smile.gif

I did calibrate behind the glasses a while ago before sending it in for the recent firmware update. I'll go back again and check. The screenshot does look more blue than I am seeing in person, I think the white balance is being thrown off by the tint on the lens.

btw, I posted to show lack of crosstalk, etc. Capturing accurate color behind the glasses is a challenge.
post #3141 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drenched View Post

I've been trying to understand whether the Sony BR50s (kids) work with the epson 5010. Reading the earlier posts, I seem to understand it does but on the 3010 3D glasses compatibility thread, these glasses are mentioned as not syncing with the 3010.link

The Sony BR50 glasses will not work with the Epson 5010.
post #3142 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Elix: I went back and did a quick recal through the glasses. I have a test disk that displays a 100% IRE in 3D mode. Color looks great through the glasses.. very close to a D65 cal in 2D mode.

I white balanced the Nikon D90 against the 100% IRE in 3D mode. The screens look a lot better, but it's still pushing blue in the image and this isn't matching what i'm actually seeing (saturated blue areas are less in person, lighter grey). I'll have to experiment more with the white balance, the tint of the lenses must be throwing it off.

I thought the 3D conversion was very good.

AV3D, Left lens - 142" 16:9 2.8 High Power.

A3D-34.jpg

A3D-29.jpg

A3D-30.jpg

A3D-28.jpg

A3D-27.jpg

A3D-33.jpg

A3D-31.jpg

Can you smell what the rock is cooking?

A3D-25.jpg

A3D-22.jpg

A3D-24.jpg
post #3143 of 3271
Looks alot different then last time zombie. You can tell the blue has been reduced but it almost seems to me atleat maybe the reds are to much now.. I am no expert but sort of giving like this look on most of the skin tones.
post #3144 of 3271
zombie10k.
Now these are some sexy pictures smile.gif They look like there's nothing more to wish for from a projector...
They still are blueish but it's closer to D65 now. I think in this case (if you're not seeing this much blue in person) you could've adjusted WB in photoshop or lightroom (but I prefer Nikon Capture NX2) to make them look more like you see it in person. Here're some photos of my FW900 24" CRT monitor I did with my D90 smile.gif I matched WB and exposure/contrast to match what I'm actually seeing, I see nothing wrong with that.
dsc7844o.th.jpgdsc7845v.th.jpgdsc7841p.th.jpgdsc7843m.th.jpgdsc7840c.th.jpgdsc7846.th.jpg
Edited by Elix - 9/19/12 at 11:20pm
post #3145 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

zombie10k.
Now these are some sexy pictures smile.gif They look like there's nothing more to wish for from a projector...
They still are blueish but it's closer to D65 now. I think in this case (if you're not seeing this much blue in person) you could've adjusted WB in photoshop or lightroom (but I prefer Nikon Capture NX2) to make them look more like you see it in person. Here're some photos of my FW900 24" CRT monitor I did with my D90 smile.gif I matched WB and exposure/contrast to match what I'm actually seeing, I see nothing wrong with that.

good advice, I am being lazy by shooting in JPG... I used to shoot in RAW all the time and edit in Nikon Capture, great program. There's no doubt the camera is being sensitive to blue, I'm not seeing the same thing with the eye.

I'll go back this weekend and run some RAW's through capture NX to see if I can match it as close to the eye as possible.
post #3146 of 3271
Zombie have you ever tried a screen with a 1.0 gain with your jvc?
post #3147 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Zombie have you ever tried a screen with a 1.0 gain with your jvc?

I have a smaller low gain screen. it wouldn't be bright enough for my preferences at 142". I like to close the iris on the JVC for maximum contrast (which significantly reduces light output). I run the iris @ -11 on my RS55 and the image looks great on my screen. nice and bright with great contrast.
post #3148 of 3271
I was recommended a Centerstage screen for the New Rs46 with a 1.0 at around 14 to 15 feet back. Not sure If I want to bump the gain up or not.

Another question is besides the da lite hp what other screen manufactors have you tested.? Did you get samples from all before making your decision
post #3149 of 3271
aaawesome shootout Zombster. any idea as to when you'll be able to shoot us the gritty about the hw50's input lag - for all us gamers waiting in the ranks ? i hear theyre in actual production rather than preproduction now - like actually moving down the assembly line en-masse ! im not gunna git me one of em till you do all the work first wink.gif - when will you get your hands on one for testing ya think ?
Edited by Bubtacular - 9/20/12 at 12:51am
post #3150 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I was recommended a Centerstage screen for the New Rs46 with a 1.0 at around 14 to 15 feet back. Not sure If I want to bump the gain up or not.
Another question is besides the da lite hp what other screen manufactors have you tested.? Did you get samples from all before making your decision

If you are referring to the Centerstage XD, that screen is an Acoustically Transparent screen with the highest gain ( a bit over 1.0 gain) of any of the WOVEN AT screens and the SMX AT screen is of a similar woven design.

If you are looking for more gain in an AT screen you would have to go with a PERFORATED screen such as the Stewart offerings which have various gains available.

If NOT going with an AT screen you can choose from a number of SOLID screens from various manufacturers with various gains.


...Glenn smile.gif
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