JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 105

Hopefully this year we don't get a bunch of projectors with pixel mapping issues like last year. Right now my plan is either sell my RS-45 and replace it with the least costly JVC with e-shift... Or just get a 3D DLP to add to the JVC. I haven't decided on my real enjoyment that I can get out of 3D yet, only owning the JVC RS-45 it's kind of hard to know (have watched some 3D on Epson 5010, but not much).

JVC 3D with e-shift vs. a (DLP with 3D + keep JVC RS-45)...

Tough decision, I think the cost is about the same if I sell the current PJ.
Edited by coderguy - 9/17/12 at 9:16pm

What is going to be the price and guestimate preorder price for the jvc with eshift

It looks like your projector needs to be calibrated for 3D, the color temperature through the glasses is too high (in 9000K region). But then again I guess the image won't be as bright because red is lacking here.

Not to mention the other variables that affect color...

Even if we had reference level monitors perfectly calibrated, and his screenshot was achieved with near neutral color balance from the source, well you STILL can't judge colors from a single scene because the original shot in the way they have the camera setup (or just quality of the camera or settings) and the lighting affects the color. Even when they are outside under the SUN (and the SUN IS D65), but the problem is if you have anything reflecting the light or if they have a UV and ND filter on camera to film in the sun. So the ND filter is neutral (yah but probably not other settings they adjusted to the image after the filter was attached, always so many variables). Movies don't even use D65 lighting most of the time anyhow, you might have better luck with a documentary filmed outside (but even then...). You would need a scene that had a confirmed D65 image which was very carefully color matched in balanced lighting. Every time you added a new source (for instance the camera taking the screenshot), then you would need to re-match the color balance again.

So we're about a nickel short and 3-4 color balance measurements.

Also, you can't blame someone's calibration because all of our calibrations are wrong to some degree if you want to get down to it (drift + meter errors + software bugs + reflective surfaces + sat tracking + concessions we make). My projector might look a lot more accurate in a given scene, whereas in another scene it looks worse than your projector.
Edited by coderguy - 9/18/12 at 1:53pm

When you guys calibrate your systems how long does it usually take you? Finally a night off work

It just depends on so many factors, anywhere between 1 hour on a projector that is really very close to accurate already and easy to calibrate to a full day when you're fighting some type of issue. You can spend as much time as you want trying to get all the tiny errors out of it, but most of the time 1-4 hours, and then 15-30 minutes for later touchups.

Is there certain systems you use or training? Or is this something a regular person can buy and figure out

I think any semi-technically minded person can figure it out, google "calibration for dummies". That article can be slightly overwhelming because so much info on one page, and also some of the terms he uses are slightly dated (but not really). Check the "color for newbs" article in my signature. However, that doesn't mean you'll be as good as the best calibrators (and most of us in here aren't the best), the people that are the best are the ones that do it for a living every day just because the more you do it the better you get at making decisions. The hardest thing about calibrating isn't doing the calibration itself, it's deciding what accuracy to concede if the calibration does not come out perfectly. Also, calibrating individual gamma points and stuff like can be tricky going back and forth to gray scale (not to mention super tedious). Although most projectors these days don't have that problem as much, but I think on a new lamp the calibration is easier anyways, so that is good for new people. When you do it on an older lamp, it's just harder especially if you have to keep deciding accuracy vs. brightness.

I remember reading calibrating projectors often is the way to go because of the bulb issue.. I was going to pay someone to calibrate mine when I got it but they said it was pointless because after so many hours it will need it again

Depends on the projector really to whether hiring a PRO is worth it, some DLP projectors I've seen for instance don't drift that much on the accuracy (a little), but I mean they stay ballpark. I'd say for the LCOS projectors, probably better to learn how to do it yourself. Keep in mind that calibrating todays' projectors (depending on the PJ) often produces a much less significant performance improvement than in the past, but I will say that like on my JVC RS-45, you just have to calibrate the GAMMA and gray-scale as it started pretty far off. I didn't think the Sony vw70 I owned needed much calibration or the Mits hc4000, and I say that by meaning it helped a little to calibrate them, I mean it still looked better, but only a small amount.

Hmmm interesting I guess alot of reading tonight for me

Wow this is one hell of a guide calibration for dummies lol... Looks like it takes care of it all

Finally measured to see screens I can fix downstairs..

Widescreen 2:35 Max is 132 inches wide and 59 inches height

16:9: 125 inches wide and 70 inches in height...

These are including the actual frame as well... Now to see how big I can go

O.K. I got a big surprise -- no DI on the Sony for 3D! The same goes for the VW95? What are these companies thinking? Maybe only Panasonic got this right.

Strange. I hope at least the 'film' MotionFlow mode (Dark Frame Insertion, or DFI) is at least available in 3D? I wonder if they don't allow DFI in 3D b/c it dims the image. That'd be a bummer. Most projectors this round seem to have opened up their 2D features to 3D, e.g. Panasonic & Epson. Would be a shame if Sony was the only company that didn't.

The above photo still look blueish, assuming it was shot under the blinding sun. It's only an assumption though as I haven't seen this source. But I definitely see wrong color temperature on known sources when I see one. Here's your photo against source (screenshot taken from the file):


I totally believe you it looks gorgeous nevertheless. And it may be indeed your camera WB settings (you should've checked it before posting then). I simply suggested it may look even better if calibrated through the glasses for 3D specifically.
Edited by Elix - 9/19/12 at 8:34am

well now add the picture of the girls lol would love to see if they improve

Looks alot different then last time zombie. You can tell the blue has been reduced but it almost seems to me atleat maybe the reds are to much now.. I am no expert but sort of giving like this look on most of the skin tones.

zombie10k.
Now these are some sexy pictures They look like there's nothing more to wish for from a projector...
They still are blueish but it's closer to D65 now. I think in this case (if you're not seeing this much blue in person) you could've adjusted WB in photoshop or lightroom (but I prefer Nikon Capture NX2) to make them look more like you see it in person. Here're some photos of my FW900 24" CRT monitor I did with my D90 I matched WB and exposure/contrast to match what I'm actually seeing, I see nothing wrong with that.

Edited by Elix - 9/19/12 at 11:20pm

Zombie have you ever tried a screen with a 1.0 gain with your jvc?

I was recommended a Centerstage screen for the New Rs46 with a 1.0 at around 14 to 15 feet back. Not sure If I want to bump the gain up or not.

Another question is besides the da lite hp what other screen manufactors have you tested.? Did you get samples from all before making your decision

aaawesome shootout Zombster. any idea as to when you'll be able to shoot us the gritty about the hw50's input lag - for all us gamers waiting in the ranks ? i hear theyre in actual production rather than preproduction now - like actually moving down the assembly line en-masse ! im not gunna git me one of em till you do all the work first - when will you get your hands on one for testing ya think ?
Edited by Bubtacular - 9/20/12 at 12:51am

If you are referring to the Centerstage XD, that screen is an Acoustically Transparent screen with the highest gain ( a bit over 1.0 gain) of any of the WOVEN AT screens and the SMX AT screen is of a similar woven design.

If you are looking for more gain in an AT screen you would have to go with a PERFORATED screen such as the Stewart offerings which have various gains available.

If NOT going with an AT screen you can choose from a number of SOLID screens from various manufacturers with various gains.


...Glenn