or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 107

post #3181 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If the HP was such a bad 2d screen, my ST130 would be back on the wall. My ST130 has been in storage ever since getting the 2.8HP.....and that was almost 2 years ago. wink.gif No, it is not just brightness either. Being able to mount my JVC at max throw and iris clamped all the way down (for 1.78) for max contrast is something I could never do with a low gain screen and still get good brightness. The HP/JVC is a perfect match IMO due to this IF you have the right setup for it.

+1
post #3182 of 3271
I have used a SI Gamma 4K screen and a Carada CW screen. Both are neutral screens. Not as good as the Stewart ST100 but neutral none the less. I had dual screens and used the HP just for 3D. Then, one day I decided to watch Star Wars and I use the HP screen. I switched back and forth with my SI screen and the HP screen. Been using the HP screen ever since.
post #3183 of 3271
I'm curious how the BD zero edge 1.4 screen will perform with the RS45?. Thinking of getting a 120" 2:35 model. That new back lighting for the screens looks pretty cool as well!
post #3184 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I'm curious how the BD zero edge 1.4 screen will perform with the RS45?. Thinking of getting a 120" 2:35 model. That new back lighting for the screens looks pretty cool as well!

I have a 100" fixed 1.4 gain Black Diamond and its awesome... You'd love it. Like a plasma screen.
post #3185 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslaw81 View Post

I have a 100" fixed 1.4 gain Black Diamond and its awesome... You'd love it. Like a plasma screen.

Thanks jslaw for the insight! I'm moving in a few months, hopefully Santa Claus will be good to me this year!biggrin.gif I need to make sure whatever place I get has the wall space. If not I'll just go with a smaller screen.
post #3186 of 3271
"Yes without any doubt. The Acer H9500BD 3D is clean without ghostîng but the WOW this is 3D ! Effect is much better on the new Sony." Kraine has apparently bought the new Sony HW50ES so he's put his money where his mouth is. That says something.

I'm really looking forward to Zombie's comments -- especially concerning 3D on this projector. My Epson 6010 may be moved to my second HT. My kids don't mind since they keep inheriting some pretty good equipment as I "upgrade". biggrin.gif
Edited by Deja Vu - 10/14/12 at 8:41am
post #3187 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

"Yes without any doubt. The Acer H9500BD 3D is clean without ghostîng but the WOW this is 3D ! Effect is much better on the new Sony." Kraine has apparently bought the new Sony HW50ES so he's put his money where his mouth is. That says something.
I'm really looking forward to Zombie's comments -- especially concerning 3D on this projector. My Epson 6020 may be moved to my second HT. My kids don't mind since they keep inheriting some pretty good equipment as I "upgrade". biggrin.gif

Think you need another edit:D

Not a big fan of Kraines reviews. Way too light on details and mostly reads like a spec sheet with a casual one line reference to performance. But it would be impressive if he chose the Sony over the JVC. I believe he is one of the only people to have compared both projectors at this point? While I can't get much out of his reviews, has he posted a direct comparison between the Sony and JVC?
post #3188 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Think you need another edit:D
Not a big fan of Kraines reviews. Way too light on details and mostly reads like a spec sheet with a casual one line reference to performance. But it would be impressive if he chose the Sony over the JVC. I believe he is one of the only people to have compared both projectors at this point? While I can't get much out of his reviews, has he posted a direct comparison between the Sony and JVC?

You're right! I got a little ahead of myself. Maybe in a few months I'll own an Epson 6020 (have a 6010 now) and hopefully, if I do, I won't be dumping it for the Sony. I'll be interested in what you end up with for this coming year. I'm still enjoying the 6010 you recommended.
post #3189 of 3271
I have someone who wants to buy the Epson from me right now and I'd only lose 500.00. I think I may try the Sony 50es next. I'm hoping to have the Sony next week. I don't really need to sell the Epson, as I do like it, but.......I gotta buy something new biggrin.gif I'll do a good 3D comparison and if it sucks, I'll post that too, but it seems from the positive feedback that it should be great.

If I change my mind I may also give the JVC a shot.

Also, I'll be sure to compare darbee +RC, and every combination inbetween.
post #3190 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I have someone who wants to buy the Epson from me right now and I'd only lose 500.00. I think I may try the Sony 50es next. I'm hoping to have the Sony next week. I don't really need to sell the Epson, as I do like it, but.......I gotta buy something new biggrin.gif I'll do a good 3D comparison and if it sucks, I'll post that too, but it seems from the positive feedback that it should be great.

If I change my mind I may also give the JVC a shot.

Also, I'll be sure to compare darbee +RC, and every combination inbetween.

what is up with you guys in Canada getting first shot at these? same thing when you got the first X70 released (in the world!).

They should be landing here in the US sometime next week. get ready for round 2! cool.gif
post #3191 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what is up with you guys in Canada getting first shot at these? same thing when you got the first X70 released (in the world!).
They should be landing here in the US sometime next week. get ready for round 2! cool.gif

It is already cold up there, they need their projectors. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #3192 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

It is already cold up there, they need their projectors. smile.gif

Yeah its freezing,eh. I ordered the Sony and should be here soon. I paid extra to get the express dog sled delivery service biggrin.gif. I could have got the first X75, but I can't justify the cost vs. the risk of not knowing how it performs. I got burnt 2 years in a row with JVC.
post #3193 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I got burnt 2 years in a row with JVC.

Burnt how, bad lamps?
I got a replacement lamp for free when mine started to DIM, but I do still question the long-term viability of the JVC for someone that puts as many hours on the projector as I do (over 1000 per year).
post #3194 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Yeah its freezing,eh. I ordered the Sony and should be here soon. I paid extra to get the express dog sled delivery service biggrin.gif. I could have got the first X75, but I can't justify the cost vs. the risk of not knowing how it performs. I got burnt 2 years in a row with JVC.

good deal, curious to see what you think of the HW50 vs the Epson. I don't recall what happened to your X70?

My particular RS55 has had no issues since January 2012. Iris is still at -13 and bright as heck on my HP. I watched 'Chernobyl Diaries' over the weekend. 1/2 the film was shot in dark. None of the other models would be able to hang with the JVC in this movie.

Some notes from Cine4home's recent review:

4500:1 - 6500:1 native on the HW50 and ~ 6000:1 on the upcoming Epson.

HW30 Vs. HW50

The increased native contrast shows up in the picture paid: In bright scenes the HW50 will look quite appealing and realistic than its little brother but also mixed scenes consisting of bright and dark parts of elements operating on the HW50 much more realistic. Completely alone in dark scenes without strong contrasts the visual experience is similar. Only here can be seen with a slight gray haze.


This makes sense. Looks great with bright scenes, very good with mixed contrast, and not quite like the JVC's in dark scenes. The DI is only going to be capable of doing so much with primarily dark scenes.

Since my love affair of the HP screen and dark sci-fi isn't going anywhere, there will always be a JVC around for this content.

The HW50 and upcoming Epson 5020 should be an interesting match up. light output should be similar between the 2. The 5010 was an excellent all around projector last year.
post #3195 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The DI is only going to be capable of doing so much with primarily dark scenes.

Funny, I've always experienced the opposite. My previous projectors with DI seemed better (or at least equal) at very dark scenes than my JVC. It's when you had a mixed scene that the JVC really excelled. When there is no light on the screen the iris is able to really clamp shut dropping black levels a ton, but falls short when opening up for mixed scenes.

DI's have also come a long ways over the years. The VW95 is a great example of how a well implemented DI can really compete with JVC head to head.
post #3196 of 3271
Thread Starter 
I directly compared the Epson 5010, HW30, VW95, RS45, RS55, BQW7000 and a few others this year.

I don't agree on the VW95 vs my RS55 in a direct A/B with my dark sci-fi content. Close, but not quite the same @ -13 on my 142" 2.8HP.
post #3197 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I directly compared the Epson 5010, HW30, VW95, RS45, RS55, BQW7000 and a few others this year.
I don't agree on the VW95 vs my RS55 in a direct A/B with my dark sci-fi content. Close, but not quite the same @ -13 on my 142" 2.8HP.

I wasn't stating the 95 was superior, just that it could compete. I would almost bet that unless you did a side by side A/B comparison you'd be hard pressed to really pick out a "clear" winner. Black levels are getting really close now a days, unlike the runaways in days past.

You'd know best of course with your extensive hands on experience with different models.
post #3198 of 3271
Thread Starter 
The HW50 and Epson 5020 still doesn't have the same native contrast as the VW95, but the HW50 did improve to at least the levels of the 5010 which was very good for a LCD projector.

With the large gain of the HP screen, I'm always seeking the lowest possible black floor. During Chernobyl diaries, there is this very dark scene where there is a girl with an LED flashlight moving around in the dark. The flashlight was very bright cutting into blackness of the background. This was a great, convincing scene that shows intense native contrast with super dark blacks and intense white light.

I realize the majority of movies aren't like this. But it's a blast to see when it happens and scared the heck out of visitors when the flashlight went out and the room appears pitch black for a second or 2. The new re-release of the Terminator in the UK is also a great disk to test the native contrast.

I can't wait to see the HW50 and new JVC's this year. I wish the JVC's were sooner, but will have the HW50 soon to compare to the current models I also have.
post #3199 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I can't wait to see the HW50 and new JVC's this year. I wish the JVC's were sooner, but will have the HW50 soon to compare to the current models I also have.

I'm really rooting for the JVC. There really aren't too many projectors on the market right now to choose between IMO. For my viewing it's really a competition between JVC and Sony, and the Sony won't work in my room (lens throw). So JVC better step up this time around. cool.gif
post #3200 of 3271
Thread Starter 
I think they've heard everyone loud and clear. fix the lamp, fix the 3D. early indications from trusted sources like Cine4home indicate noticeable improvements in 3D and also improvements of the e-shift.

I did experience a issue with my first lamp in the RS50 that JVC replaced. Since I've had the RS55, I decided to run it on high altitude mode as an experiment. It's been holding up great, I have to check the hours next time I fire it up. This is with a January 2012 Rev 2 lamp without the flapper. The last revision with the flapper is likely the lamp that could have idled down the issue, but they took it seriously enough to swap to the DC lamps.

obviously it still remains to be seen what happens, but I'm giving it another chance again with the RS56. There is something about the JVC + the HP screen with a clamped iris that I find hard to resist.

I know the HW30 well after owning it about a year, so I'm curious to see the HW50 first hand soon next to the RS55. I sit only 14" from a 142" 16:9, so PQ improvements like e-shift are obvious. I'm going to look closely at the RC vs. e-shift vs darbee starting about 3" from the screen and working my way back to seating level in the comparisons. similar to what I did with the e-shift vs. darbee demo.
post #3201 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I sit only 14" from a 142" 16:9, so PQ improvements like e-shift are obvious. I'm going to look closely at the RC vs. e-shift vs darbee starting about 3" from the screen and working my way back to seating level in the comparisons. similar to what I did with the e-shift vs. darbee demo.

Well at just over a foot away from the screen, you might need to wait for e shift 3. biggrin.gif
post #3202 of 3271
I wish I had the opportunity to compare the hp to something like the brilliant white from carada.


I still have not decided on my screen for my rs46. Never thought one of the hardest decision would be the screen
post #3203 of 3271
Zombie has to run a JVC in those dark scenes because of the HP. For me on the carada screen, the Epson and JVC were close in blacks, but if the scene was mixed content, the brighter areas were brighter on the JVC. If I ran the JVC at -13, I would get like 200 lumens in 2D, but the black would be far superior to the Epson at that point.

JVC ended up giving me a refund for the X70. Had one lamp go, and then the power supply went. I never had so many problems with JVC projectors that even my dealer was started to think it was impossible and that it was something in my setup that was causing the issue. I guess we will see how it goes this year....

The reason I went with the Sony 50es for now is:

3D brightness. Brightest 3D projector in this category.
Sony RC
Sony motionflow and DFI (which I really like)
Quiet iris
unobtrusive iris
2D brightness
motion flow and iris in 3D (new epson should have these features also)
Quite in high lamp mode

These are things that should be better then the Epson 5010. The Epson 5020 may equal brightness in 3D and should have FI and Iris available in 3D also, but the epson will still have average best mode brightness, noisy iris, slightly visible iris, and much louder in high lamp mode (especially ceiling mounted) and the epson super res sucks balls. Not sure if the darbee plus epson would equal Sony RC. Also, SDE should be much less with the Sony.

The Epson will sell for substaintally less and will most likely be the best value projector this year also.
post #3204 of 3271
So many choices and I am getting impatient .
post #3205 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

So many choices and I am getting impatient .

Patience is a virtue! Once you get the JVC you'll understand why some of us love it for sci-fi movies. Anyone telling you 6000:1 and 20,000:1 native look close. Needs to have their head and eyes examined.smile.gif
The tell tell signs will be in scenes with candles, lamps or anything where light emits from dark surroundings. On the JVC's those objects burn bright! On the same scene with a projector using an Iris, the same objects are slightly subdued or dim by comparison. Those scenes on the JVC have a 2 dimensional look instead of looking flat.
post #3206 of 3271
Well I am sticking with the JVC for sure.

My dilemma is screen now. I already preordered the JVC an have no intent on changing.
post #3207 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I wish I had the opportunity to compare the hp to something like the brilliant white from carada.
I still have not decided on my screen for my rs46. Never thought one of the hardest decision would be the screen

Email the manufacturers & request samples. Da-Lite samples are typically ~7". If you want a larger size, eg. 12", let 'em know.

I believe you'd be very happy with the HP material as long as you can mount the pj close to eye level. Samples should tell the tale...
post #3208 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Zombie has to run a JVC in those dark scenes because of the HP. For me on the carada screen, the Epson and JVC were close in blacks, but if the scene was mixed content, the brighter areas were brighter on the JVC. If I ran the JVC at -13, I would get like 200 lumens in 2D, but the black would be far superior to the Epson at that point.
JVC ended up giving me a refund for the X70. Had one lamp go, and then the power supply went. I never had so many problems with JVC projectors that even my dealer was started to think it was impossible and that it was something in my setup that was causing the issue. I guess we will see how it goes this year....
The reason I went with the Sony 50es for now is:

iris in 3D

I asked over on the Sony thread about the iris on the 50 being active in 3D and was told that it was not. You might want to double check whether the iris is actually active in 3D. Here's the response --

"If you ask me, it dosnt, I watch direct into the lens for a hole minut, and it didnt move at all, and I could not activate it with the remote with 3D signal on.
On the other hand, I didnt miss it.

Maybe Rich can confirm?

Dj"
Edited by Deja Vu - 10/16/12 at 7:43am
post #3209 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Zombie has to run a JVC in those dark scenes because of the HP.

The Epson has a little less calibrated lumens than the JVC and the HP screen raises both black and white levels.
A placebo once cured an entire race of people of an imaginary disease :P

People that have white ceilings or carpet that isn't dark enough and have their PJ's mounted close can lose contrast and even a little black level from reflection backwash with the HP screen (if it is enough), but this isn't the best way to set it up. Contrarily, people with white walls but dark carpet and ceilings will generally get an improvement of at least ANSI contrast with the HP screen and possibly a little Native On/Off if the reflecting light back onto the screen was uneven. Of course the previous example assumes the center of the lens is closer to the floor or carpet than it is to the edge of the walls (which is usually the case with an HP setup). This is because the HP screen is redirecting light towards the middle rather than the edges, and the reflection isn't perfectly even.
Edited by coderguy - 10/16/12 at 8:32am
post #3210 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Epson has a little less calibrated lumens than the JVC and the HP screen raises both black and white levels.
A placebo once cured an entire race of people of an imaginary disease :P
People that have white ceilings or carpet that isn't dark enough and have their PJ's mounted close can lose contrast and even a little black level from reflection backwash with the HP screen (if it is enough), but this isn't the best way to set it up. Contrarily, people with white walls but dark carpet and ceilings will generally get an improvement of at least ANSI contrast with the HP screen and possibly a little Native On/Off if the reflecting light back onto the screen was uneven. Of course the previous example assumes the center of the lens is closer to the floor or carpet than it is to the edge of the walls (which is usually the case with an HP setup). This is because the HP screen is redirecting light towards the middle rather than the edges, and the reflection isn't perfectly even.

Per Art, there is a fair amount of difference in best image mode lumens between the RS45 and the 5010. Art got 892 mid zoom for the RS45 and 630 mid zoom for the 5010. Now the 5010 can do a lot more, but not in best image mode and that is the mode where the 5010 needs to be to compete, image quality wise, against the JVC.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout