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JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 15

post #421 of 3271
The blurred HDMI port issue would be a deal breaker to me on the Acer until they fix it. I would not buy a projector with such issues. For me the 4x color wheel would also make me go to the Optoma hd33 instead, or if you need it a little brighter, the hd3300 is supposed to be a tad brighter.
post #422 of 3271
Hi guys. Been away for a while.
I have put about 60 hours on the Benq 7000 now, the hour rate of course increases when using the bulb at normal rather than eco. Actual viewing probably 45 hours or so.

I have never had the unit lock up. Sometimes you just have to wait quite a bit say if you switcg from auto 3D format. Three minutes but it eventually figures things out.

i generally agree with many of the comments of JMalto re the three projectors.

I really like the BenQ and can easily live with it until the software is updated.

It was interesting when I watched Midnight in Paris.I just purchased the Bluray having seen the movie at a 35 mm film theater in Asheville, NC.

It was amazing how much better the blacks were and black resolution was on the BenQ compared to the film presentation I saw. I did prefer adding the ND2 filter I had in front of the lens and with it I still had plenty of brightness on my 1.3 gain 110" Studeotec.

I was troubled by the facial tones despite my calibration. They were just too warm I thought. Anyhow, at the end of the film, I watched the press conference at the Carnes film festival where Woody Alan discussed the making of the film. He discussed the cinematography and his requesting that the film be shot warm. I could have made a big mistake commenting on the BenQ without this information. The BenQ was doing its job.

And that leads to an interesting point touched on above. Accuracy vs making a source look subjectively better. I would prefer the projector in a system to be an accurate portrayer of the source and if the image needed to be processed to remove grain etc to do it externally in my video processor rather than automatically by a projector.

I will be traveling to Zombie's again after he gets his 5010 and Epson glasses. When I had the 5010, the only glasses that would at all work with it were the Xpand 103 and they did not work well enough for me to be able to evaluate the 3D.

om Huffman and I will do some more calibration on the Benq. I have not calibrated the colors through the glasses. There is decided red tint to the 3D picture viewed on the screen not wearing the glasses.The tint of the BenQ glasses mostly offsets this red push but not completely. Calibration through the glasses will quickly fix this.

All these projectors are good. One can go crazy viewing them all and criticizing them.

None are perfect. All have strengths and weaknesses but all really are quite enjoyable to watch. And most of the time I do watch the content rather than the projectors.
post #423 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The blurred HDMI port issue would be a deal breaker to me on the Acer until they fix it. I would not buy a projector with such issues. For me the 4x color wheel would also make me go to the Optoma hd33 instead, or if you need it a little brighter, the hd3300 is supposed to be a tad brighter.

Do you know if the HD3300 has lense shift? I couldn't find it and it is the only thing preventing me from pulling the trigger. The HD33 was a nightmare to get setup without using keystone to some extent.
post #424 of 3271
According to a quick look at the manual, it appears to have a fixed offset of approximately 16% of the screen height above or below the screen viewing surface.
post #425 of 3271
Good news/bad news - Good news is I got my playstation glasses and they work perfectly fine with the Epson and are a much cheaper alternative to the Panasonic or official Epson ones for those looking to save some $. Bad news is they ghost just as much as the Panasonic ones and I don't really care for how they fit around the nose area.

Hopefully my official Epson glasses show up tomorrow before I send back my current unit to Epson for the replacement swap, I'd really like to know if it is the unit ghosting or if this thing is just particular about what 3D glasses are being used.

Before people ask, it is very minimal and is not a show-stopper to not watch 3D content on this thing. I am looking for it in particular where as most people would not even notice it. 3D football looks absolutely stunning with the amount of brightness the Epson is capable of.
post #426 of 3271
regarding W7000, is there anyone that can direct me to some posted settings for a better overall picture without calibration?
post #427 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Good news/bad news - Good news is I got my playstation glasses and they work perfectly fine with the Epson and are a much cheaper alternative to the Panasonic or official Epson ones for those looking to save some $. Bad news is they ghost just as much as the Panasonic ones and I don't really care for how they fit around the nose area.

Hopefully my official Epson glasses show up tomorrow before I send back my current unit to Epson for the replacement swap, I'd really like to know if it is the unit ghosting or if this thing is just particular about what 3D glasses are being used.

Before people ask, it is very minimal and is not a show-stopper to not watch 3D content on this thing. I am looking for it in particular where as most people would not even notice it. 3D football looks absolutely stunning with the amount of brightness the Epson is capable of.

The tolerance for ghosting seems to be very individual specific so this has me a little worried about the Epson. My 2D experience is based on my time with my Sony G90 CRT which was gamma corrected so that it would perform a full and complete fade to black in my completely light controlled room on my 120" HP screen. It could never be as sharp as my Epson 9500 digital projector, but it did very well with blu-ray movies.

Right now I'm using the little Acer 3D 720p projector exclusively for 3D. I've seen ghosting on other displays and I really would like to avoid it. My Acer, my computer and my Nvidia (five pairs) are paid for and work extremely well. I'm hesitant to purchase something new and then have to deal with problems that I don't have to deal with now. I put the Acer on the other night and watched some 3D. I'm always surprised at how bright it is in 3D (it won't be as bright as the Epson) and how satisfying the contrast is with the Nvidia glasses on (it won't be as good as the JVCs, but Kraine doesn't think the 9500 is far off and I suspect the little Acer is very similar to the 9500 without its DI). I'd rather watch a 3D movie on the Acer than watch the same movie in 2D on a G90 -- that's how good the Acer is. RBE is a non-issue for me in 3D mode (luckily). I think I'll continue enjoying it until you guys sort out all the hassles with the 1080p 3D projectors. I really don't want to be ambushed by ghosting -- I'd buy the Acer 9500, but it too needs some issues clarified and sorted out. I'm particularly interested to hear what Zombie has to say about the 5010.
post #428 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabby View Post

regarding W7000, is there anyone that can direct me to some posted settings for a better overall picture without calibration?

Hot off the press
http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...alibration.php
post #429 of 3271
Thread Starter 
I share a number of the same thoughts that Art has on the W7000. I think some were a bit quick to judge the W7000. Each of these projectors has specific pros/cons.. a buyer has to match their needs to the feature set that appeals to viewing preferences.

of course the DLP isn't going to have the same black level performance as the JVC. Then again, the JVC can't crank the lumens (quite watchable colors @ 7k) the way the W7000 can for ambient light viewing, nor can it handle 3D anywhere near as well as the W7000.

I mentioned in the mini-shootout the major strengths for the W7000 would be HDTV viewing, some movies and strong 3D performance. Also, it looks like BenQ has been open with Art about firmware updates, etc. personally, my only complaint was the length of time to get in and out 3D mode. My RS50 wasn't much better, I would wait 20-25 seconds sometimes for that projector to settle down going into 3D mode.

I thought BenQ publish a 6x color wheel speed, but Art stated it was only 4x. hopefully this can clarified. I am very RBE sensitive and rarely saw it in 2D or 3D.
post #430 of 3271
Deja - The ghosting is "just there" it isn't jump in your face waving a flag saying "look at me!" like on some projecors I truthfully think it is a number of conditions contributing to ghosting on my 5010 vs. the 3010 and am going to try and tweak some of it out tonight if I get time. I never used the super res feature on the 3010 (not sure it even had one to be honest) and I have it engaged on the 5010 so it may be causing it.

Epson does not have any 5010's in their warehouse for a replacement so hopefully my unit will be here sometime next week. Did they did say I would get a brand new one so I guess I can rack the hours up on my current one without worrying too much about it.

Zombie - I agree on the W7000 completely, it is a great HDTV projector and I am RBE sensitive and did not notice it near as much compared to the HD33 and the 720p counterparts.
post #431 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Hot off the press
http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...alibration.php

Very odd to see the gamma like that. Is there a gamma off control or something than can be used to get the pj more neutral. Does it support internal 11 pt calibration so it can be tweaked without using a VP? In its current form it is likely to look a bit washed out compared to how it would look with a solid 2.2 or even higher gamma.
post #432 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Hot off the press
http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...alibration.php

Is anyone else seeing reference to the 5010 in a lot of places when it should be the W7000? Not sure if my browser is jacking up the review or not. Sounds like he really enjoyed the unit, I wonder if he was given a quick look at the new firmware or not?

Thank you as always Art for the review.
post #433 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Is anyone else seeing reference to the 5010 in a lot of places when it should be the W7000? Not sure if my browser is jacking up the review or not. Sounds like he really enjoyed the unit, I wonder if he was given a quick look at the new firmware or not?

Thank you as always Art for the review.

If you check out Arts calibration page for the epson 5010 it is the exact same as the Benq W7000.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...alibration.php

There is nothing in the Benq W7000 menu that looks like Arts calibration numbers.
post #434 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

If you check out Arts calibration page for the epson 5010 it is the exact same as the Benq W7000.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...alibration.php

There is nothing in the Benq W7000 menu that looks like Arts calibration numbers.

I got the same impression as you, something's not right, it seems as if parts of the Epson's review is mixed in with the Benq's.
post #435 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

I got the same impression as you, something's not right, it seems as if parts of the Epson's review is mixed in with the Benq's.

It looks like he is using a lot of the 5010 review for a temporary page fills until he gets the new firmware from Benq in couple of weeks.
post #436 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by svosteve View Post

It looks like he is using a lot of the 5010 review for a temporary page fills until he gets the new firmware from Benq in couple of weeks.

He uses old reviews as templates and simply updates sections as he goes... at least that is what I have seen. Some times even ancient reviews will still have sections about the other projector.
post #437 of 3271
Thread Starter 
I have an Epson 5010 w/ the Epson glasses to add addition info to the mini-shootout. Once I get it setup and D65 / R709 calibrated, I'll add in all the additional info to the first page (lag, 3D screenshots, 2D impressions, etc)

I'll also be testing the MV3D's as well with the 5010.
post #438 of 3271
Someone posted a link to a little javascript app that demonstrated input lag. It may have been on a 5010 thread. I've searched everywhere and cannot find it.

Anyone know where this is or have a link to one?

The one I saw allowed you to move a cursor but the movement was delayed so you could "feel" the lag.

... ALtan
post #439 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have an Epson 5010 w/ the Epson glasses to add addition info to the mini-shootout. Once I get it setup and D65 / R709 calibrated, I'll add in all the additional info to the first page (lag, 3D screenshots, 2D impressions, etc)

I'll also be testing the MV3D's as well with the 5010.

Looking forward to that. Thank you.
post #440 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i have an epson 5010 w/ the epson glasses to add addition info to the mini-shootout. Once i get it setup and d65 / r709 calibrated, i'll add in all the additional info to the first page (lag, 3d screenshots, 2d impressions, etc)

i'll also be testing the mv3d's as well with the 5010.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vidwiz View Post

looking forward to that. Thank you.

+1
post #441 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have an Epson 5010 w/ the Epson glasses to add addition info to the mini-shootout. Once I get it setup and D65 / R709 calibrated, I'll add in all the additional info to the first page (lag, 3D screenshots, 2D impressions, etc)

I'll also be testing the MV3D's as well with the 5010.

I was starting to wonder if you backed out after coder's comment

Make sure you disable FI when you do the input lag test although I think in best case it is still going to be around 80-85ms.
post #442 of 3271
I think the Epson and Sony will have a full-on battle. The Epson looks sharper than what I remember from the Sony but Zombie has some really good calibration settings for it if he thinks it is on par with the RS45. I really, really want to try out the VW95 but it is hard to justify the cost when I can get two individual projectors for less.

I'd say the 3D is definitely brighter on the Epson but have no factual measurements to back that claim up.

Zombie - Did you keep the W7000 or return it with Mark? I am curious if the new firmware will lower the input lag any although 50ms is definitely in the average area these days with the 3D units.
post #443 of 3271
There is no question the 3D is the brightest on the Epson, that has been measured by several reviewers.
post #444 of 3271
Well maybe I misunderstood Art's review comment:


Quote:


BenQ W7000 3D Brightness

We have no accurate way to measure net brightness to one's eyes, in 3D. From subjective testing compared to the Epson, Acer, and Sony VW95ES, I can say that calibrated mode is almost as bright as the Epson, and Dynamic mode slightly bests the Epson equivalent. The BenQ in its calibrated mode seems to have better color than the others at their brightest.

I do realize you said measured though.
post #445 of 3271
Well the Benq didn't do 3D in its brighter dynamic modes, unless that was already patched?
The Benq only does 900 lumens in 3D mode (before glasses take it down way low).
post #446 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Well the Benq didn't do 3D in its brighter dynamic modes, unless that was already patched?
The Benq only does 900 lumens in 3D mode (before glasses take it down way low).

Does 900 lumens in 3D make any sense considering the W7000 is a 2000 lumen projector??
post #447 of 3271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Zombie - Did you keep the W7000 or return it with Mark? I am curious if the new firmware will lower the input lag any although 50ms is definitely in the average area these days with the 3D units.

Mark has the W7000 and it sounds like he's having a good time with it. I don't think he's had a 3D projector in a while, and this one is especially good with 3D. I showed him 'Legends of Flight' and that was a quick purchase when he got home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Does 900 lumens in 3D make any sense considering the W7000 is a 2000 lumen projector??

the 3D lumens I measured was a bit crude.. there is a scene in DM where there is a white background and the projector was in 3D mode. The W7000 was still @ D65 at the time. I really liked the colors with their glasses and saw no reason to raise it to 8500 to try and compensate for the tint of the glasses. it wasn't necessary since they were so neutral. 3D was like watching 2D colors.. hardly any noticeable color shift.
post #448 of 3271
For what its worh, I liked the Epson but not in its super bright mode, 2D or 3D wise. There is a big cost in PQ (contrast wise) and color fidelity in throwing all else to the wind to ignite your screen in flames. There is no magic way to crank a machine to maximize one parameter without adversely affecting some other parameters but the Epson does allow one a choice if I remember correctly.
post #449 of 3271
Thread Starter 
The Epson 5010 is a nice looking white projector. I might be able to hide this one in the living room.

post #450 of 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Epson 5010 is a nice looking white projector. I might be able to hide this one in the living room.


Do you keep all your projectors on your pool table?



... Altan
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