JVC RS 45 / Sony HW30 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5010 mini-shootout - Page 4

+1 thanks to Zombie and Mark for these results.

I have a finished room that is 11'11" x 22'5" x 9' . Theater not built yet. Plan to have possibly 120 or 125" wide 2.37 AR acoustic transparent screen CIH set up (most likely Seymour AV) with LCR speakers behind screen. Intended use 90%+ movies, 10% TV. Plan to use ISCO 4XL A-lens as well. I even might do console gaming but it's really not high on my wants list at all. 3D is also not high on my list as well. Main priority is quality 2D.

Given the Seymour gain is nowhere near the HP (I think 1.0), what is the RS-45 and W7000 lumens output I could expect for a 125" wide 2.37 1.0 gain screen taking into account bulb aging after 100 to 200 hrs?

I checked Projector central pro calculator and the results for 125", 2.37, 1.0 gain at 16'11",

W7000: 16fL
RS-45: 9fL

but I think PJC results are not at D65 and new bulb?

I am coming from a Mits HC3000 720P DLP. Probably like most folks here, I would love to have deep blacks of LCOS & the sharpness of DLP but I also want a bright image (i think >12fL after initial bulb dimming). I probably put more priority on sharpness & brightness (i know I wont get the amazing star fields in star wars ) . So before this thread came about, i was pretty sure only DLP option such as BenQ would work best but zombie's lumens (new bulb) results and coderguy's comments on RS-45 sharpness have made me pause for a moment.

More like 18fL on the JVC and Sony, and 20 fL on the Benq. Take 10% off for good measure after 100 hours.
That leaves at least 16 fL on the JVC and Sony, and 18 fL on the Benq.

Notice in my calculator how close my original numbers were to Zombie's results. Use the 2.35 results from my calculator shows you should be getting around 18 fL.

My calculator vs. Zombie's results
900 for the RS-45 at mid-zoom with a +7% modifier based on his position = 960 lumens on a new lamp vs. Zombie's measured 927 lumens on a 20 hour lamp
(< 3% variance, but adjusted for lamp life 0 vs 20 would mean = 0.9% estimated variance)

1000 lumens for the Benq with a +8% to +10% modifier = 1080 lumens on a new lamp vs. Zombie's measured 1062 lumens @ 15 hours on the lamp.
(< 2% variance but adjusted for tiny lumen loss @ 15 hours = wow now that's close)

My Sony hw30 numbers were about 10% from his, but as I have said before a 10% to 15% variance to be expected on occasion and my numbers are based off many measurements and not just one.

The only issue I see with my calc's number are the w7000's 3D mode, I find it odd that a projector that peaks at 2000 lumens does only 900 lumens in 3D mode, that is insanity. Sounds like a mistake Benq made in the firmware.

I agree. Unfortunately the 95 wont work in my setup and if I am going to spend that kind of $$$, I would probably go with a 45/7000 combo.

So Im assuming you were forced to test lag on the RS45 without CMD/FI? Wow, the number is only going to get worse with CMD 'on'. I had igh hopes for this PJ for 2d and gaming, (dont care about 3D), but with 80ms lag that is a huge turn off.

I dont know where else to look for a projector with deep blacks and sub-50ms lag.

This was my question as well, how in the world can the BenQ not be bright in 3D with 2000 lumens to work with? Any owners contacting BenQ asking this question?

No matter if I liked her music or not, I think there is plenty to enjoy about that

zombie10k,
Great review. Looks like I chose wisely for what I wanted in a projector. For your FI test, I have a clip of a scene that drives my projector nuts. If is a slow pan and the picture gets incredibly jerky. Turning on the FI makes it watchable again. I see that you run with FI on which makes me think that is why you haven't seen it (or maybe my projector is doing something funny) I've been tempted to fire up my RS1 again to see if it has the same problem.

Which projector did you choose?

coderguy,
HW30. I got hooked on 3D with my Sony HX800. The problem was it was hard to get immersed into it when it was only 52" and you were 13' away from it. The HW30 with a 120" HP screen fixed that nicely. Ever sit in a room where it is snowing inside ? :-)
The strange part is it is not fast pans that bother it, just slow pans (go figure)

I have sat in a room with it snowing but not while watching a projector, I've also ridden on a snow plow down a mountain after an accident. (and not by choice)

Where I live now it rarely snows, and usually it's 120 outside so my AC bill for a few months from the projector costs more than ALL my lamps combined that I have ever purchased in my life.

Just bought an Epson 5010. Couldn't resist a nice boxing day deal, and said what the hell. I'll post some impressions later. Lets see if it can pass my 3D tests

I hope the 2D isn't too shabby either, and I don't like FI in 3D anyway. I didn't like it on my VW90 or Sony HX929.

Epson 5010 should be good in 3D, maybe you can add your images to this thread and Zombie can move them to the first page post comparison???

Because I didn't have the correct glasses for the Epson, I was unable to watch it in 3D. The Xpand 103s worked a little bit on it but had so many problems it was unwatcheable before I had to deliver the projector to the person who purchased it calibrated from us. So I can't help there. 2D it was as good as the Sony being sharper but not handling motion perhaps as well. We are talking small differences.

I could handle that blond Spanish lady but she was wearing a skirt big enough for a guy to hide under.

Congrats Conan! The 5010 is a very interesting projector. Supposed to have a fantastic DI and excellent blacks.

I hope you do a review of it for us. I'm interested in your impression of the screendoor effect on it, if its at all an issue, or maybe an overblown issue.

Mark, when you say the 5010 is just as good in 2d as the Sony, are you talking about the HW30? And you found the 5010 sharper? Did you use the DI on the Epson, and was it noticable at all?

Thanks.

I have 2 sets of Xpand 103s. Hopefully I can get them to work.

I don't expect too much from the DI as the Epson 6500 and 8700 had noisy iris where I ended up just disabling it. However, the static contrast on the Epson is very good and even without the iris it looked nice.

I'm using this as a temp projector until I move but the Epson being so bright I might just keep it in a living room non dedicated HT and see how it works in the new house.

I'll report on screendoor, and other stuff :-)

I know the input lag on the Epson isn't the greatest but I've never had issues with near 100ms input lag. Your brain adjusts for input lag very quickly, but if you a competitive gamer that could be the difference between life and death. LOL.

I haven't had a 95 ES in house to calibrate with Tom and to test. So my comparisons were between the HW30 and the Epson 5010 and the RS45. The 3010- I haven't played with and I won't. I am a stuck up snob, OK and the minimum Epson I want to spend time with was and is the 5010. I was very impressed with that machine. It held its own in 2D. I did play with the 103 Expands and got them to sinc sort of but I had to give the machine up before I could play with them more. I have ordered in a pair of the Epson glasses and will get another 5010 from someone who wants a free calibration and I will use that for some 3D testing. I just can't comment on the 3D performance of the Epson other than to say it was bright and I didn't like the super bright mode for 3D on it. I much prefered 3D cinema mode where its brightness was in the same league as the Sony and JVC. I am sorry to let you guys down here. I am on the phone with customers pretty much 12 to 14 hours a day and testing task so uch time to do it right and definatively. And like anybody, I would much rather take out a Ferrari than a Miata on the track. When I get the Sony 1000ES in, my customer phone time will be cut short for awhile. No tonight, instead of posting more, I am going to unpack the BenQ again and fire it up in 2D to watch Monday night football in low lanp, no BC, but with DB on and I will play with the ND2 a bit.Somebody call me and help me get into the service menu and teach me about the DB or DI settings. Thanks in advance.

Hey Mark,

I guess this is what you already tried, but here it is...
This is what I found from the w6000 thread, but I have never done it myself (only seen a w6000 once in my life briefly).

Press menu and goto Last tab which is information page. Press up, down, up, down. You should enter the service menu. Goto db settings menu and please post db max, db min, db strength.

More info from w6000 thread:

Firmware 1.01
Date of firmware 2009/10/29
DLP Compos # 0.07
Sys Control MCU # A2-020

Aperture Position +51
Aperture Max +73
Aperture Min +15
strength +2

What are the factory numbers for ones with the original
firmware 1.0 ?
__________________
If I remember correctly, default for 1.0 firmware is: DB Max at +84 and DB Min at +12.

So that would explain the difference. You could verify by setting it to those values, and seeing if it reacts the same way you recall.

Nice additions to the review, I will say that my RS-45 also has the black uniformity corners issue, so do several other peoples in the forum.

It is noticeable on a few (but very few) dark scenes that are not completely black. One movie I could see it that had some smoke at night and the bottom right and left were too bright. I am not watching the RS-45 on my HP screen at the moment and I still see it. I am also no longer in a completely dark room while I re-decorate (curtains gone), so even without all black I can still tell.

It should not be a major issue to most people, but it could be a tad distracting at times depending on how severe it is from unit-to-unit. I will have to watch more content to know for sure how often it really shows up in darker movies that have really dark scenes but not pitch black nothingness.

I have 70 hours on my RS-45, and other than the bright corners, I see no other issues in the PQ really to speak of other than the bright corners.

Looks good zombie, thanks for putting this together. Having owned all 3 (I will consider the RS45 similar to the RS40) I pretty much agree with you on everything. The only thing I find a little baffling is that the BenQ is so bright for you where as on my screen it is the dimmest of any of the units I've had this year from memory. It may be my DLP-Link glasses which may also explain why I was not impressed with the HD33 where as so many other people seemed thrilled with it.

Once Amazon gets the Acer 9500 price down a little I plan on ordering it and will make a decision on what combo to go with this year. Right now I am thinking Epson 5010 for 2D/3D and the Acer for gaming.

You owned the Sony hw30, RS-40/45, and Benq w7000?

But now you are buying the Epson and Acer?

Great report, Jason. This sure beats manufacturer hype. I wish I lived close enough to be there for one of these shootouts.

My RS45 is a little bright in the corners, too, but the RS40 is slightly more noticeable. It's not a problem with either of them. For most fades to black, the contrast is so good that the whole screen looks utterly black for a few seconds, until my eyes adjust. They're both great with the "shadow puppet" test, where you put your hand up into the black area of the screen and see how gray the "black" of the projector looks. they pass that test with flying colors. My Sharp 20k wasn't very good with the test, and the Panny 4000 was quite bad.

Yup, and the JVC Hd250, Optoma HD33 and Epson 3010. I have not owned all these at the same time but back-to-back-to-back. I basically sell them after putting around 10-15 hours on them and move on to try something else. This years requirements were: Good input lag for gaming, good 3D (didn't have to be perfect) Good black levels, and sharp 2D. The Sony HW30 is the closest of all the projectors to meet these requirements for me but the image is a tad softer than I want for my 140" screen.

I have the RS45 in my theater room right now but was planning on calling AVS to get an RMA for it. I keep hearing from owners of the Epson and JVC that the Epson is just as sharp this year and the 3D actually works on it. The price I paid for the JVC is the only thing holding me back from really pulling the trigger and for some reason I really want to keep this thing. I guess after being burned on my Epson 6700UB I don't have a lot of faith in them any more.

The Epson could solve my 2D/3D requirements and the Acer will take care of the gaming without breaking the bank. For the cost of 2 higher-end units (like the BenQ and JVC) you are almost in the Sony VW95 territory.

The 3D glasses I am using with the BenQ is BG-ZD101

I wish we would quit hijacking this shootout thread. The original poster's results stand great on their own. IMO

I don't think that was our intent, but I did clean up things a bit on my end
We all know Zombie's 3D review was the one everyone was waiting for, and he did it perfectly.