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LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES- - Page 8

post #211 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

When Federer was at his peak, we wondered if this is as good as tennis gets. Turns out Nadal and maybe Djokovic are his equal and in some ways better. There is a bit of room for even more greatness there, to be sure, but let's be clear, we've already seen greatness.

If Federer was as strong mentally as Nadal, and switched to a double-handed backhand--believe it or not, he does have one, and it's gorgeous--he would reach a new level of greatness even last year's Djokovic couldn't touch. He's going to reclaim #1 spot this year, just watch.

Federer is like OLED. Beautiful to watch, close to perfection, but nothing close to what's physically possible. It's physically possible to build a machine that would not allow Federer to win a single point. Even OLED is just a small step toward a main goal of providing slightly better virtual experiences. It's physically possible to make virtual experiences order of magnitudes better by connecting sensory system--all senses, plus artificial ones--with artificial worlds far more complex and exciting than real ones. We haven't seen true greatness yet. Compared to what's coming, we haven't seen much at all.
post #212 of 862
A fairly comprehensive review of the LG panel.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/lg-55in-oled-tv_TV_review
post #213 of 862
Really can't wait to see what they have for pricing. I know everyone is expecting them to be around 10/15K. But I for one am hoping thats not the case.
post #214 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Rogo, thanks for the report.

I am now starting to believe that OLED might never be able to enter a healthy cycle and it might not be the next generation FPD tech I am hoping for.

What is the power consumption for this 55" OLED set?

Low, well under 100w. Samsung's will be lower than LG's because of the RGB design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

At least you can finally buy an OLED TV this year. It's going to be nice to see.

Well, it might be the year you can buy it. I am more confident in stating you will be able to actually buy one next year than that you'll actually be able to buy one this year. Assume that if they ship, there won't be many this year (see below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

If Federer was as strong mentally as Nadal, and switched to a double-handed backhand--believe it or not, he does have one, and it's gorgeous--he would reach a new level of greatness even last year's Djokovic couldn't touch. He's going to reclaim #1 spot this year, just watch.

It would be lovely to see that.
Quote:
Federer is like OLED. Beautiful to watch, close to perfection, but nothing close to what's physically possible. It's physically possible to build a machine that would not allow Federer to win a single point. Even OLED is just a small step toward a main goal of providing slightly better virtual experiences. It's physically possible to make virtual experiences order of magnitudes better by connecting sensory system--all senses, plus artificial ones--with artificial worlds far more complex and exciting than real ones. We haven't seen true greatness yet. Compared to what's coming, we haven't seen much at all.

So to be clear, I believe flat-panel TVs already come close to doing everything that flat panel TVs can ever do. They are capable of full-motion resolution, reference color, and simultaneous contrast that approaches the limits of human visual perception. There is room there, but there isn't "perfect tennis robot vs. Roger Federer room". Current TVs are too good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Really can't wait to see what they have for pricing. I know everyone is expecting them to be around 10/15K. But I for one am hoping thats not the case.

So, I suspect quantities will be so low that the prices will, in fact, be that high. If we see $8000, that would be about the low end you can expect. Now, assuming they can ramp production into the hundreds of thousands in 2013, I believe the annual 30% or so declines in price period could set in. Both PDP and LCD enjoyed that for years; OLED should as well -- assuming both mfrs. are able to ramp their entirely novel processes to scale.
post #215 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Well, it might be the year you can buy it. I am more confident in stating you will be able to actually buy one next year than that you'll actually be able to buy one this year. Assume that if they ship, there won't be many this year (see below).

LG have said they're expecting to sell between 200,000-300,000 of them this year.
post #216 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

LG have said they're expecting to sell between 200,000-300,000 of them this year.

That's a pretty hefty amount. I doubt they would sell that much with a super high price. Then again. People did it for the KURO. I'm sure others will do it for this as well.
post #217 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

A fairly comprehensive review of the LG panel.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/lg-55in-oled-tv_TV_review

Comprehensive and extremely positive. The negatives (Passive 3D at half-HD and glossy screen) are not really related to OLED technology.
post #218 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Rogo, thanks for the report.

I am now starting to believe that OLED might never be able to enter a healthy cycle and it might not be the next generation FPD tech I am hoping for.

What is the power consumption for this 55" OLED set?

I think OLED might just be what the doctor ordered.... I am a KURO owner and have time before I need a new display, I would love something in the 60-70" size but LCD doesn't do it for me- Including the new Elite panels.

My hope is that OLEDis real and by the 3rd generation we see superior picture quality and a sub 5k cost. If so I'm in, but my other hope is that the mere presence of a better technology in the market will force Panasonic to actually deploy some of the Kuro technology they purchased and perhaps offer a better plasma.

Likewise, those who like LCD will hopefully see Sharp really ramp up picture quality across the board and lower costs- overall everyone comes out ahead if OLED can become a reality in the market place.
post #219 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

LG have said they're expecting to sell between 200,000-300,000 of them this year.

I'll take the under.
post #220 of 862
I'll take the under as well.

However, the interesting question is whether that is a real internal target for LG. If so, the combination of Oxide-TFT and WOLED must allow for far more dramatic price declines than most people are anticipating.
post #221 of 862
LG 55EM9600 OLED, Wins Best Of Show for CES 2012


http://www.cnet.com/best-of-ces/?tag=TOCcarouselMain.0
post #222 of 862
Not surprising.
post #223 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevink109 View Post

I think OLED might just be what the doctor ordered.... I am a KURO owner and have time before I need a new display, I would love something in the 60-70" size but LCD doesn't do it for me- Including the new Elite panels.

Boy, it's lucky you're posting that on this thread. If you criticize the Elite in some places you'll get mugged.

I also am not crazy about LCDs, and the Elite was very good for an LCD panel, but still not appealing to my eyes. Plus, I'm not convinced about Local Dimming.

What was your impression?
post #224 of 862
I'll have an OLED next year. Maybe one after that. Unless I can get a 55inch for 3Kish. I won't be buying one anytime soon.
post #225 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I'll have an OLED next year. Maybe one after that. Unless I can get a 55inch for 3Kish. I won't be buying one anytime soon.

Taking into account pace in the OLED TV's development, so far, "next year" or even "one after that" ( for 55") sounds pretty soon!
post #226 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Boy, it's lucky you're posting that on this thread. If you criticize the Elite in some places you'll get mugged.

I also am not crazy about LCDs, and the Elite was very good for an LCD panel, but still not appealing to my eyes. Plus, I'm not convinced about Local Dimming.

What was your impression?



i kind of follow the elite thread and their owners are very protective of the 5-7k investment, to the point the minimize and ignore the fact that the set does not accurately produce colors and has a pulsing issue that seems to affect a significant percentage of the sets, but not all of them.

there was supposed to be a fix for the cyan inaccuracy but sharp hasn't delivered it even though it was promised months ago. a lot of returns reported.

given the premium price and these known issues i wouldn't buy one. i will be an early adopter of an oled set if it can be had at a reasonable price and
provides performance consistent with all the hype.
post #227 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i kind of follow the elite thread and their owners are very protective of the 5-7k investment, to the point the minimize and ignore the fact that the set does not accurately produce colors and has a pulsing issue that seems to affect a significant percentage of the sets, but not all of them.

there was supposed to be a fix for the cyan inaccuracy but sharp hasn't delivered it even though it was promised months ago. a lot of returns reported.

given the premium price and these known issues i wouldn't buy one. i will be an early adopter of an oled set if it can be had at a reasonable price and
provides performance consistent with all the hype.

That's the way it seems to me. I was pretty early on excited by the Elite. then saw it, then read the thread. My reaction is pretty much the same. I conversed with a very fine calibrator who told me all four Elites he's calibrated had the pulsing. Also I didn't think that even in THX mode that it struck me as the "best tv ever made." It's very high priced for a tv with such defects, and the way it was marketed capitalized on people's memories of the Kuro, and the videophile dream of a perfect display.

I just don't see how it will compete with a TV with perfect blacks, achieved without local dimming, an appreciably higher contrast ratio, and tremendously quick response.

OLED and Quantum Dot are very, very promising.

By the way, I like Sharp displays, and the way they're exploring 4K. If the Elite were more reasonably priced it would be better and more appropriate.
It's a very good display with some flaws. Maybe they'll fix them...maybe in their next release. But I'm not crazy about Local Dimming.
post #228 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

given the premium price and these known issues i wouldn't buy one. i will be an early adopter of an oled set if it can be had at a reasonable price and
provides performance consistent with all the hype.

I would recommend very strongly against buying any of the OLED sets in the first year. I don't believe their performance will be up to snuff nor do I believe they will have ironed out enough of the problems to trust the reliability.

I'd reconsider that recommendation by the second year, and also note that I'd have saved someone 20-35% in all likelihood.
post #229 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I would recommend very strongly against buying any of the OLED sets in the first year. I don't believe their performance will be up to snuff nor do I believe they will have ironed out enough of the problems to trust the reliability.

I'd reconsider that recommendation by the second year, and also note that I'd have saved someone 20-35% in all likelihood.

I agree with the notion of waiting out a year for OLED. By the same token, I wouldn't drop a bundle of money on an Elite, when better solutions are coming.
post #230 of 862
Or wait several months and see if there are any untoward visual/quality control issues with the first gen if you're really itching to have the latest and greatest. When making the decision to purchase, add an extended warranty to further calm any new tech jitters (not cheap by any means when accounting for the likely price of the TV, so I'd be leaning towards waiting as well).
post #231 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I agree with the notion of waiting out a year for OLED. By the same token, I wouldn't drop a bundle of money on an Elite, when better solutions are coming.

Well, sadly, the Elite is a perfect example of why you are best off staying away from Gen 1 stuff.

It has two serious flaws, one Sharp acknowledges, one they don't. And yet it's clear some people are nevertheless delighted.

For me, having to live with a display for several years, I don't want some known flaw to just be sitting there all that time.

That said, if there were a perfected Elite -- especially 4k -- I don't believe there is a better solution coming anytime soon. Samsung cannot scale their current tech past 55 (or maybe 60) inches anytime soon -- probably years. LG is also using 8G, so even if their tech scales well in size (and it should), without a 10G fab, they can't go past 60 either.

Neither LG or Samsung is going to be dramatically better on contrast, color or motion. And both will be inferior on resolution. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of being an early adopter; I'm just giving my recommendations. But I think anyone who thinks the first-gen OLEDs are going to be a lot better than the Elite is flat out kidding themselves. The one certainty is that they'll be smaller. And by the time they ship, very possibly, much lower resolution.
post #232 of 862
I don't think it's ever idea to be buy the 1st of anything. Don't think I've ever seen anything perfected 1st try.
post #233 of 862
HD GURU Best In Show pick.

http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads.../P10306581.jpg


"Best In Show: LG 55EM9600 55″ OLED

*

OLED (organic light emitting diodes) is the first new big screen flat panel tech since 1997. *The LG 55EM9600 delivers everything big screen OLED promises, vivid color, fantastic contrast, 180 degree viewing angle and pitch black blacks. All coming from a 4mm thick design the OLED image beat out everything else at CES.

The LG 55-Inch 55EM9600 has two configurations. One is a table stand version with the speakers and electronics built into the base. The other, a wall mount version with the electronics and downward firing speakers housed within a backpack that sits between the wall and the screen. This OLED is a full featured HDTV with 1080p resolution, Smart TV with voice and gesture remote and 3D. Expect to see it yourself in Q3, at a priced to be announced."
post #234 of 862
scroll down to the comments

"Scoop // Jan 12, 2012 at 4:35 pm


Also, could you talk about the differences you saw between the two OLED sets (if you could get close enough to make out fine detail) and why you chose the LG model?

Geoff: No direct comparison was possible. The deciding factor was that the LG has a model number and the associated electronics to run the TV. Therefore, it’s a “real” product. Samsung’s OLED had no model number and none of the necessary electronics were on display. Therefore it’s more of a prototype.
"

Soo, first LG was "vaporware", then it was looking like maybe not so much. Then "it will NOT be out till 2013 for SURE" and then "No way they will sell close to 200,000 in 2012" then "Don't buy the first gen, it's going to suck".

How many more times will the negative nancys in the thread change their mind?

Oh, sorry, I forgot the "it's going to cast a million dollars" then "it's going to cost $100k" then "It's going to cost $15k", etc etc.

LOL
post #235 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

scroll down to the comments


Soo, first LG was "vaporware", then it was looking like maybe not so much. Then "it will NOT be out till 2013 for SURE" and then "No way they will sell close to 200,000 in 2012" then "Don't buy the first gen, it's going to suck".

How many more times will the negative nancys in the thread change their mind?

Oh, sorry, I forgot the "it's going to cast a million dollars" then "it's going to cost $100k" then "It's going to cost $15k", etc etc.

LOL

First of all, speaking for myself, I'm a positive Paul, not a negative Nancy.

Like some other on these threads, I've believed from the start that LG was coming to market, that it has production facilities, and that OLED is and will be the display of choice...although quantum dot may be an alternative, due to less cost for the inorganic materials used, and the possibility of greater stability. I don't see LCD/LED being able to compete with OLED for as long a time as some predict.

My reason for all of those without excess monies to wait until after the first year, is that problems that may occur in first generation models are usually ironed by later models. Also prices will come down if you wait. And lastly, I believe that most of the display fanatics on these threads like screen sizes larger than 55 inches. I know I do.

So I'm very positive.
post #236 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevink109 View Post

I think OLED might just be what the doctor ordered.... I am a KURO owner and have time before I need a new display, I would love something in the 60-70" size but LCD doesn't do it for me- Including the new Elite panels.

My hope is that OLEDis real and by the 3rd generation we see superior picture quality and a sub 5k cost. If so I'm in, but my other hope is that the mere presence of a better technology in the market will force Panasonic to actually deploy some of the Kuro technology they purchased and perhaps offer a better plasma.

Likewise, those who like LCD will hopefully see Sharp really ramp up picture quality across the board and lower costs- overall everyone comes out ahead if OLED can become a reality in the market place.

I've thought about this, too, regarding OLED forcing Panasonic to up their game. The Elite priced itself out of being competition for Panasonic, but if OLED goes mass production in the next year or two, Panasonic may finally have major competition and whatever black level advantage they have is toast.

Also, if they started releasing smaller sized OLED panels with better blacks than their plasma line, I wonder how that would even fare. It's not as though you'd put a 37" tv as your flagship model. LG and Samsung went with 55" because it would be a size justifying a flagship product.
post #237 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i kind of follow the elite thread and their owners are very protective of the 5-7k investment, to the point the minimize and ignore the fact that the set does not accurately produce colors and has a pulsing issue that seems to affect a significant percentage of the sets, but not all of them.

there was supposed to be a fix for the cyan inaccuracy but sharp hasn't delivered it even though it was promised months ago. a lot of returns reported.

given the premium price and these known issues i wouldn't buy one. i will be an early adopter of an oled set if it can be had at a reasonable price and
provides performance consistent with all the hype.

We're talking about first GEN Sharp Elite Pro here , second GEN is on its way.

Quote D-NICE 'I will wait for the new ones (which will have proper color tracking and MUCH more)'.
post #238 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

We're talking about first GEN Sharp Elite Pro here , second GEN is on its way.

Quote D-NICE 'I will wait for the new ones (which will have proper color tracking and MUCH more)'.

I'm just not a huge fan of LCDs, though 4K might be interesting. They all are poor off axis, which apparently is exacerbated by Local Dimming, and pixel response, I don't believe, can be as quick as OLED or quantum dot. There is a certain look that LCD has to my eyes, although the Elite looks best so far, the noted defects notwithstanding.

To me it seems engineers are making all kinds of tweaks to keep the lifetime of LCD going, with Local Dimming being one of them. Local Dimming must be highly complex, given that it is perpetually compensating for changes in light that near-infinitely vary from source material to source material. I wouldn't be surprised if the pulsing in the Elite is attributable to Local Dimming.

If I were to invest in LCD it would be to get a huge, possibly 4K device. Given that Sharp's 80 inch has decent blacks without LD, I would be fine with a set that avoided it.

Otherwise, I'll save my dollars for a big OLED (or quantum dot) when available and affordable.
post #239 of 862
^Yes, I have similar thinking...sick and tired of LCD in the computer monitor world and my earlier tenure when using it for my main display source. No more.
post #240 of 862
If some of the news is to be believed, it's possible the First Gen of Samsung will be panels made the same way they make OLED for Phones. And I believe Samsung phone OLED is currently it's 4th or 5th gen of OLED Samsung has put into production.

And if the news is to be believed, they will then shift to a NEW method to produce OLED Tvs, which could be using new manufacturing methods.

No doubt, if spending $8k to $10k on a 55 inch TV is a huge amount to you, waiting will be worth it in many ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

First of all, speaking for myself, I'm a positive Paul, not a negative Nancy.

Like some other on these threads, I've believed from the start that LG was coming to market, that it has production facilities, and that OLED is and will be the display of choice...although quantum dot may be an alternative, due to less cost for the inorganic materials used, and the possibility of greater stability. I don't see LCD/LED being able to compete with OLED for as long a time as some predict.

My reason for all of those without excess monies to wait until after the first year, is that problems that may occur in first generation models are usually ironed by later models. Also prices will come down if you wait. And lastly, I believe that most of the display fanatics on these threads like screen sizes larger than 55 inches. I know I do.

So I'm very positive.
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