AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panel General & New FP Tech › LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES-
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES- - Page 17

post #481 of 862
4/11/12 at 11:43pm
If LG delivers some tiny quantity of displays in May at $8000, nothing any of the "naysayers" have said will in any way have been proved false.

I don't believe anyone is "against OLED" either.

If you can buy one in June for 5K, we will have been wrong. And I will happily eat a copy of the manual.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #482 of 862
4/12/12 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/articl...ing_next_month
Street date in Europe is May 16, anybody know USA street date?

It is likely this time EUrope will be well ahead of the US due to the EURO soccer cup in Poland/Ukraine starting on June 8th and London olympics on July 27th. Seems logical LG will send first batches only to Europe since this unique sports madness will anaesthize the price pain for quite many fans .
Reply
Reply
post #483 of 862
4/12/12 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

If LG delivers some tiny quantity of displays in May at $8000, nothing any of the "naysayers" have said will in any way have been proved false.

I don't believe anyone is "against OLED" either.

If you can buy one in June for 5K, we will have been wrong. And I will happily eat a copy of the manual.

Zero intention to provoke but for the record, you were skeptical of a $5k 32" OLED this Christmas.

And for the record, nobody and myself included, expected a larger than 32" OLED TV to be available this year for anything less than $10k, not to mention the multiple naysayers on the OLED thread, just 12 months ago.

That's how I perceive the facts to be, without any hindside bias. I state these to demonstrate how OLED has outperformed our wildest expectations.
Reply
Reply
post #484 of 862
4/12/12 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

If LG delivers some tiny quantity of displays in May at $8000, nothing any of the "naysayers" have said will in any way have been proved false.

Rogo, I value your opinions overall, but I gotta agree with others that you made some predictions that it appears are going to be proven quite pessimistic. Here's one from the OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread you made about a year ago (March 23, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I don't see a chance in hell of a 55-inch OLED TV shipping at any price next year and I see the chance as very small for a high-priced one to ship in 2013. I base this on the fact that even a 15-inch will be a bridge too far in 2011 (the LG will exist, be hard to find, cost an astronomical sum, and, oh, be hard to find). I base the future predictions not on some high-minded cap ex numbers, which are driven almost 100% by mobile phones and tablets, but on the utter lack of historical precedent. Thing being made in tiny sizes doesn't suddenly become thing made in giant sizes when the history of said thing has been its very slow ramp up from even tinier sizes (the first full color OLED in a practical CE device was used on a digital camera I'm fairly sure).

I'm curious what dates spec would put on the various TV sizes.
Reply
Reply
post #485 of 862
4/12/12 at 7:37am
I like rogo. As giddy as the promise of OLED tech gets me—I look to rogo for the sober response. If he had his own tech blog—I'd follow it.
Reply
Reply
post #486 of 862
4/12/12 at 8:14am
^^^ I like you. Despite joining in 2005, you only have 4 posts

I think many of us agrees that Rogo's hit rate is higher than most of us. The latest being that he believes that 4k TV will not have an intermediate resolution like 720p before 1080p. I thought it would follow the progression of PC monitors somewhat. But does look like Rogo is right.
Reply
Reply
post #487 of 862
4/12/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Zero intention to provoke but for the record, you were skeptical of a $5k 32" OLED this Christmas.

You bet I was. And let's be clear, even if they ship a tiny quantity of giant ones for $8K, the above would still hold. That said, the above in principle would have been a bad prediction.
Quote:
And for the record, nobody and myself included, expected a larger than 32" OLED TV to be available this year for anything less than $10k, not to mention the multiple naysayers on the OLED thread, just 12 months ago.

That's how I perceive the facts to be, without any hindside bias. I state these to demonstrate how OLED has outperformed our wildest expectations.

Right and that's why better against a smaller, $5000 TV in 2012 would be proved to be a bad prediction, assuming general availability of a $55" TV even at $8000. But let's not pretend those are in fact apples to apples, even if the latter is in some ways beyond our expectations from a year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Rogo, I value your opinions overall, but I gotta agree with others that you made some predictions that it appears are going to be proven quite pessimistic. Here's one from the OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread you made about a year ago (March 23, 2011)

And Rich, with regard to the quoted matter, let there be no ambiguity: A 55" TV renders that particular prediction spectacularly wrong. Of course, it's spectacularly wrong when the TV ships and can be purchased. I do tend to believe that will happen and the quoted material will in fact be proved wrong.

But in the meantime, LG has produced a lot of press clippings, not a TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

^^^ I like you. Despite joining in 2005, you only have 4 posts

I love that guy. I will blog more often (I do so rarely) just for him.
Quote:
I think many of us agrees that Rogo's hit rate is higher than most of us. The latest being that he believes that 4k TV will not have an intermediate resolution like 720p before 1080p. I thought it would follow the progression of PC monitors somewhat. But does look like Rogo is right.

I've also had like a dozen correct OLED predictions. So, hey, if they ship a 55" this year that someone can actually buy, I'll be wrong.

Here's the part I guess I don't get. Who are these morons sitting behind their little computer screens that think I wanted to be right a year ago that there'd be no OLED this year? Who are these fools who think I am "anti-OLED? Do they seriously believe for half a second that I don't want to see this technology expand and thrive as rapidly as possible? Cause if that's what they believe I can't be bothered to spend a breath or another keystroke caring that they are drinking champagne that I might get a prediction wrong. If that's why they believe, they just don't know a damn thing about what I'm interested in.
Reply
Reply
post #488 of 862
4/12/12 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

And Rich, with regard to the quoted matter, let there be no ambiguity: A 55" TV renders that particular prediction spectacularly wrong. Of course, it's spectacularly wrong when the TV ships and can be purchased. I do tend to believe that will happen and the quoted material will in fact be proved wrong.

But in the meantime, LG has produced a lot of press clippings, not a TV.

Absolutely agree. That's why I carefully worded my comments to say "you made some predictions that it appears are going to be proven quite pessimistic". And for the record, I believe you do want to see this technology come out soon but didn't think it would happen this quickly.
Reply
Reply
post #489 of 862
4/12/12 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Absolutely agree. That's why I carefully worded my comments to say "you made some predictions that it appears are going to be proven quite pessimistic". And for the record, I believe you do want to see this technology come out soon but didn't think it would happen this quickly.

I would say your assessment of my position is quite accurate.
Reply
Reply
post #490 of 862
4/12/12 at 4:41pm
well, not to split hairs here, but lg is (supposedly) going to ship woled displays.
while everyone has focused on oled, samsung has proven it has not yet mastered manufacturing large oled displays.

lg's woled took most of us by surprise



no one is going to ship a 55" oled display this year.
Reply
Reply
post #491 of 862
4/12/12 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well, not to split hairs here, but lg is (supposedly) going to ship woled displays.
while everyone has focused on oled, samsung has proven it has not yet mastered manufacturing large oled displays.

lg's woled took most of us by surprise



no one is going to ship a 55" oled display this year.

WOLED is just a different type of OLED. It is absolutely still an OLED display.

Slacker
Reply
Reply
post #492 of 862
4/12/12 at 5:40pm
Soo, those 2 factories spitting out 55 inch OLED panels right now are just going to stockpile them?

I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well, not to split hairs here, but lg is (supposedly) going to ship woled displays.
while everyone has focused on oled, samsung has proven it has not yet mastered manufacturing large oled displays.

lg's woled took most of us by surprise



no one is going to ship a 55" oled display this year.
Reply
Reply
post #493 of 862
4/12/12 at 11:03pm
I tend to take Slacker's position here that it's "absolutely OLED".

We were thrown a bit of misdirection a year (or perhaps even longer) ago when LG was allegedly looking into OLED backlights for LCD -- which didn't seem very interesting.

What's clear is that this single-color OLED approach + color filters is a fascinating innovation. It might reduce the ultimate picture quality of OLED a bit (it might not and we might never know to be honest.... but either way it's +/- "a bit") but it will massively reduce the complexity in building them. It's hard to overstate how discontinuous an innovation this is. It takes a set of problems that were not -- and are not -- solved and basically makes OLED manufacturing a set of very well understood challenges.

Everything LG needs to do is something they are either (a) already doing (TFT backplanes, color-filter litho/patterning) or (b) should have relatively minimal trouble mastering (vacuum deposition of solid layers of the OLED materials to make the all-white light source without needing any pixel patterning).

I didn't foresee a truly discontinuous innovation a year ago. But then again, no one here did either nor did anyone I read elsewhere. Clearly, LG knew they were working on this a year ago. The fact they failed to deliver on their 2011 OLED promises in retrospect was not actually a negative indicator but rather was a red herring; they were probably too busy working on moving toward making all this go to waste time making an overpriced 31" TV no one would want.
Reply
Reply
post #494 of 862
4/12/12 at 11:32pm
^^ And again for the record, we thought it was ridiculous to replace the LED backlight with expensive OLED.

Turn out that the so-called OLED backlight is actually backlighting individual pixels (ie the ultimate Local Dimming) It is definitely an elegant solution to a complex problem... and I had to admit that I was skeptical that LG of all companies will be able to pull this off. But I am glad they did.

But this solution is probably not feasible for high density screens
Reply
Reply
post #495 of 862
4/13/12 at 4:53am
I think the area where LG is going to see the biggest challenge is in their use of Oxide-TFT for the backplane. Sharp was supposed to use those for the iPad but missed the deadline due to low yields so we'll have to wait and see if LG can manage better execution.

We'll have at least one idea of their confidence in their solution in the next few months. They are supposed to announce the timing and size of their plans for a commercial Gen 8 fab in the first half of this year.
Reply
Reply
post #496 of 862
4/13/12 at 5:17am
Well, it looks like Sharp has made enough progress to start up production of their IGZO LCD displays. The article mentions 10" notebook and 7" tablet displays.

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20120413D13SS935.htm
Reply
Reply
post #497 of 862
4/13/12 at 10:27am
@spec, correct, we failed to grasp that they were building the ultimate microdimming/local-dimming. An LCD without LC material.

@slacker, yes, big IGZO will be the single hardest part of this. But I doubt that 24 months from now, that's going to have yield issues, for example. I suspect it will be a 90% process.
Reply
Reply
post #498 of 862
4/13/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Absolutely agree. That's why I carefully worded my comments to say "you made some predictions that it appears are going to be proven quite pessimistic". And for the record, I believe you do want to see this technology come out soon but didn't think it would happen this quickly.

If LG plans to ship 55EM960V this May, they should at least have the official spec. Major review channel should also have samples in advance?

Does LG really solve all issues on WOLED mass production? I personally think rogo is too optimistic and the CES show was more like a PR stunt which did not indicate the mass production process for WOLED was mature.
Reply
Reply
post #499 of 862
4/13/12 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

I personally think rogo is too optimistic...

Ah the irony...

I can't win.
Reply
Reply
post #500 of 862
4/14/12 at 12:32am
I've noticed skeptics' Stages of denial as the train of technology advances:

It's vapourware
It's only in handsets
It's only in tablets
It's too small to be TV
>$10k is too expensive
It's not mass produced, a niche

I can't even phantom what's the next stage when 8G ramps? We need a 90" OLED?

It's fine to stare at the train's headlights and freeze, since neither life nor career is at stake. I'm not saying it's definitely coming in May (though good chance for the Olympics showcase) but at least read the OLED thread and have a sense how far the train had moved from the station

PS I'm $20 vested with a forumer that 55" OLED will come by end 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

If LG plans to ship 55EM960V this May, they should at least have the official spec. Major review channel should also have samples in advance?

Does LG really solve all issues on WOLED mass production? I personally think rogo is too optimistic and the CES show was more like a PR stunt which did not indicate the mass production process for WOLED was mature.
Reply
Reply
post #501 of 862
5/1/12 at 7:44pm
Are we there yet (anyone heard anything new)? The official launch month hath arrived.
Reply
Reply
post #502 of 862
5/1/12 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post


I can't even phantom what's the next stage when 8G ramps? We need a 90" OLED?

I need a 90" OLED! Maybe around 2017 or so?
Reply
Reply
post #503 of 862
5/1/12 at 11:26pm
I'll let you know when the 10G is ready
Reply
Reply
post #504 of 862
5/1/12 at 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I need a 90" OLED! Maybe around 2017 or so?

Heh, you forgot to add that you need 4K 90" OLED. Or should it be 8K by then?
Nevertheless this shows OLED is showing up too little too late...
Reply
Reply
post #505 of 862
5/2/12 at 12:12am
^ Ironically you've just answered what "I can't even phantiom"
Reply
Reply
post #506 of 862
5/2/12 at 11:35am
Irkuck is right, my 2017, 90" OLED must be at least 4K, if not 8K. So please, whoever is keeping my shopping list, keep that in mind. Also, I don't think I want to spend more than about $5-6K on it. So make sure it comes in for around that, yeah?

Thing is, this doesn't feel entirely implausible.
Reply
Reply
post #507 of 862
5/3/12 at 11:28am
I found the following pasted quotation at the link below. The article is regarding LG OLED and says LG hopes to sell 55'' OLED panels for $4000 in 2013.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/LG-Displ...ews-14022.html

Quote:


LG Display said on Friday that the company plans to start production of its 55-inch OLED TV (55EM960V) sometime in July. The news arrived during the company's 4Q12 report which revealed an operating loss of 144.8 billion won ($129.3 million), its fifth consecutive quarterly loss.

Yet despite the loss, LG's numbers seem to be improving. The company saw a 492 billion won loss in the previous quarter and a 387 billion won loss a year ago. LG is a key panel supplier of Apple's iPad and iPhone as well as Amazon's Kindle Fire tablet, all three of which helped boost sales during the 2011 holiday season.

But given that LCD demand will remain subdued from now until at least March due to a weak global economy and low seasonal demand, the total shipments for the first quarter of 2012 will be similar to the fourth quarter of 2011. Prices are expected to remain stable, said James Jeong, Chief Financial Officer of LG Display.

"Going forward, LG Display is confident about its ability to maintain its leadership with a host of differentiated products in the global display sector even in a rapidly changing market and well positioned to achieve an early turnaround," Jeong said.

LG will reportedly invest 4 trillion won (around $3.5 billion) this year into the OLED technology. Once production of the 55-inch OLED TV begins in July, LG expects to initially produce a conservative 8,000 substrates (8G) per month -- or around 48,000 OLED TV panels. Plans for a large-scale 2013 production won't be made until 3Q12 after the company evaluates consumer acceptance and feedback.

LG's 55-inch OLED TV made its debut earlier this month at CES 2012, sporting passive 3D and a Full HD resolution. It weighed around 16 pounds and had a thickness of less than 4-mm. LG said that it was based on its Oxide TFT (which replaces Amorphous Silicon with a cheaper Oxide) White-OLED (WOLED) panel with color filters (RGBW).

The 55-inch OLED TV is expected to cost around $8,000 USD initially, and then drop down to around $4,000 USD in 2013.
Reply
Reply
post #508 of 862
5/3/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatstreet View Post

I found the following pasted quotation at the link below. The article is regarding LG OLED and says LG hopes to sell 55'' OLED panels for $4000 in 2013.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/LG-Displ...ews-14022.html

That article is dated Jan.27th 2012, from an obscure source, so I would not put any stock in such price projections for next year.
Reply
Reply
post #509 of 862
5/3/12 at 7:19pm
I went to a store called Centre Hi-Fi up here in Canada last week and the salesman had a list of upcoming LG HDTV's: The 55" LG OLED was listed at $7999.99 Can. and the 4k 84" LG at $12999.99 Can.
Reply
Reply
post #510 of 862
5/3/12 at 8:31pm
^^ interesting... Did they say when they will be on sale?
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panel General & New FP Tech › LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES-