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The Grove Theater and Basement Build - Page 39

post #1141 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Yup, 12V, 6A power supply. Got it here.

No issues splicing two strips together. Power supply doesn't even really get warm after running them for an hour or two.
post #1142 of 1268

Hey Vanice,

 

Thanks for the reply. I called one of the LED light places online and ordered a 24v power supply with 4 16' rolles of 24v lights and a controller unit that will integrate well with my planned Control4 automated setup. Based on your feedback for measurements, all my soffits are under construction and the only hold up now is finding a few feet of linacoustic for the 2 boots. That stuff is sure hard to find!

post #1143 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Glad you got it all figured out. Yes, linacoustic can be hard to find, especially in 1". I ended up with a similar product but in 1/2" as that was all that I could find. Got it from the HVAC company who I had come in and run the ducting for my basement.
post #1144 of 1268

Hey vanice,

 

Looks like I have to buy the 100' roll. I can get 1/2" or 1". Which one is better for lining the hvac boxes? I guess I should also consider possibly using the remaining 90' for something down the line lol, in which case, if I used some on the walls, would I use 1/2" or 1"?

 

Thanks.

post #1145 of 1268
Thread Starter 
That sucks that you have to buy a 100' roll of the stuff. I would definitely go for the 1". That is what I would have purchased had it been available. And if you want to use it elsewhere 1" will be more useful.
post #1146 of 1268

Hey vanice,

 

What did you use to fasten the linacoustic inside the hvac box, some kind of adhesive or do you screw it down?

 

Thanks.

post #1147 of 1268
Thread Starter 
I applied some wood glue (really any glue or adhesive would probably work but this is what I had readily available) to the sides of the box and then threw in a few staples to hold it. Seemed to hold well enough. Haven't noticed any issues since they have been installed.
post #1148 of 1268

Thanks vanice, I will do the same :)

post #1149 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Theater related post! No progress to speak of but I did just make a new purchase...


(image courtesy of Emotiva)

Looking forward to seeing how this opens up the sound stage. I have seven speakers so unfortunately two will get left out. Thinking I will use this to power the LCR speakers and the surround speakers. The back surrounds I will continue to power off the AVR (until I find more money to buy an XPA-2 and rework everything again). Anybody else have a similar setup who can chime in and confirm that this is the way I should be utilizing the XPA-5?
Edited by vanice - 9/23/13 at 7:59am
post #1150 of 1268
I need an amp for two of my channels. I'm running 11.1 but my receiver only amplifies 9 channels. May have the 2 extra channels you are not using?

If only it was that easy.
post #1151 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Ha! If only it were. Would probably be a lot cheaper too.

Wish I had the space to go 11.1 or even 9.1. My room is too narrow for width speakers and I don't think I would gain much from height speakers as they would be tucked right under the soffit to get any kind of separation from the main front speakers.
post #1152 of 1268
Hey Vanice - good purchase. I think the XPA-5 provides excellent bang for the buck and I have a similar setup. XPA-5 for LCR and side surrounds with an Integra ADM 2.1 for the rears. I am in the same boat - I plan to either add an XPA-2 for the L/R and switch the XPA-5 to the rear channels or add another XPA-5 for biamping of the LCR. Either way - the XPA-5 is a great amp at an excellent price.
post #1153 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Hey Vanice - good purchase. I think the XPA-5 provides excellent bang for the buck and I have a similar setup. XPA-5 for LCR and side surrounds with an Integra ADM 2.1 for the rears. I am in the same boat - I plan to either add an XPA-2 for the L/R and switch the XPA-5 to the rear channels or add another XPA-5 for biamping of the LCR. Either way - the XPA-5 is a great amp at an excellent price.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying yours. I'm hoping for a good step up from just the receiver powering everything. I'm planning that same approach (XPA-2 for L/R and XPA-5 moves to surrounds and center channel).

I really wanted to wait for the XPR-7 but the cost was going to be a bit more than I could really stomach. And I know this is blasphemy but the XPR would be overkill for my room. eek.gif
post #1154 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Glad to hear that you are enjoying yours. I'm hoping for a good step up from just the receiver powering everything. I'm planning that same approach (XPA-2 for L/R and XPA-5 moves to surrounds and center channel).

I really wanted to wait for the XPR-7 but the cost was going to be a bit more than I could really stomach. And I know this is blasphemy but the XPR would be overkill for my room. eek.gif

Overwhat? Sorry - not familiar with that word. smile.gif

And while I'm not familiar with that receiver, I'd be willing to bet that you'll have a very audible difference with the new amp. Best of luck with it!
post #1155 of 1268
Well I've spent the better part of 2 days reading through every post in this thread and it's been great fun, I can only imagine what it's been like for you over the last 2+ years. It's looking amazing mate.

Very envious of you Americans and the ease with which you have access to all of these products and companies, not to mention the pricing. The projector alone will run you $9k in New Zealand. Unless you're in the upper bracket of rich here, building your own theater is merely a pipe dream. Alas reading through this thread is a great way to kick my theater building kicks and I hope yours ends up every bit as awesome as you had hoped, which I am sure it will.
post #1156 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopkiwi View Post

Well I've spent the better part of 2 days reading through every post in this thread and it's been great fun, I can only imagine what it's been like for you over the last 2+ years. It's looking amazing mate.

Very envious of you Americans and the ease with which you have access to all of these products and companies, not to mention the pricing. The projector alone will run you $9k in New Zealand. Unless you're in the upper bracket of rich here, building your own theater is merely a pipe dream. Alas reading through this thread is a great way to kick my theater building kicks and I hope yours ends up every bit as awesome as you had hoped, which I am sure it will.

Thanks kopkiwi! I appreciate you taking the time to read through my build. It has been a journey that is for sure. A journey that I hope has a completion soon. biggrin.gif

Wow, I guess we do have it pretty good! I would definitely have to make some concessions if we had pricing like that!
post #1157 of 1268
Thread Starter 
New toy showed up last week and I couldn't let it sit in the box any longer.

It arrived in good shape. Surprisingly not too bad to carry downstairs even though it is listed at 75lbs boxed up.



Gotta love when it is double boxed for it's protection...



Finally getting to the goods. A thick layer of Styrofoam and a manual...



And one last layer of protection, a thin wrapping to prevent scratching...





I got a deal on this amp because it was either a scratch and dent or a refurb. Looks like I got the scratch and dent as there were a few mars to the front faceplate. Nothing really bad and when I got it in it's new home I couldn't even see them anymore because of the lighting. Normally I am picky about things like this but I can let this go especially since it looks flawless in place.

I decided to use rack ears to mount as it is a clean looking solution and I don't plan to use the RSH covers so having the amp stick out a little farther than all the other equipment isn't a problem. Here are the Emotiva rack ears for a 4U piece of equipment...



To get the amp ready I removed the feet that were already installed...



And then the rack ears were installed. Pretty beefy pieces but they need to be to support 70lbs of amp...





And finally with a little help from the wife I got it installed in it's new home after I moved some things around...





First impressions:
Right off the bat I noticed that I had the dreaded hum running through my speakers that were connected to the amp. Didn't have time to try and eliminate it but that will be on my future to-do list. It is pretty noticeable even from 12' away. Volume control did nothing to change the loudness of it. I'm assuming ground loop so I need to read up on that and see if I can't rid myself of this noise. Anybody have any good suggestions?

Anyway, after powering up the other equipment the hum was drown out by the roar that is the EP4000. Decided to check out a movie that I knew had a good soundtrack and that was the latest Die Hard movie. After starting the movie I realized that I didn't have to have the volume at the same level as before to get the same sound in the room. I usually watch at about -36 on my Denon and with the Emotiva I was watching at about -42. Now I don't consider myself an audiophile but to me it seemed like the shackles had been removed from my 4Pi speakers. They seemed to have effortless sound now. I did not have the opportunity to really crank the volume as it was late in the evening and the family was sleeping but I have few doubts that the XPA-5 will be up to the challenge. I also noticed more surround volume from the two (out of four) surround speakers that were being powered by the amp. They are 4ohm ERD-1s and I'm sure they were really being hampered by my receiver which is only rated down to 6ohm. No recalibration was done so that my change things somewhat but I really liked what I heard from them. Overall I am very happy with the new addition and look forward to putting it through it's paces as I eventually get this room finished. I also hope one day to add an XPA-2 with it and really have a bulletproof power center. smile.gif
Edited by vanice - 9/30/13 at 8:13am
post #1158 of 1268
Beautiful piece of equipment that Emotiva. If shipping to NZ wasn't daylight robbery I would have a room full of their stuff.

Hope you get the humming sorted. Had the issue once myself, nothing more annoying and frustrating.
post #1159 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Thanks kopkiwi. It is a very sharp looking piece and you just can't beat the bang for the buck. Especially when you can get it at a good discount. wink.gif I can only imagine the price to ship 75lbs that far. eek.gif Might be cheaper to take a vacation to the states and pack it in your suitcase to take home. wink.gif

I hate having to track down these issues. I have a slight hum/static in my living room but it really isn't very noticeable unless you are right on top of one of the speakers. This hum is noticeable. I don't remember it being this bad before the amp so maybe that will help me narrow down my problem.
post #1160 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Right off the bat I noticed that I had the dreaded hum running through my speakers that were connected to the amp. Didn't have time to try and eliminate it but that will be on my future to-do list. It is pretty noticeable even from 12' away. Volume control did nothing to change the loudness of it. I'm assuming ground loop so I need to read up on that and see if I can't rid myself of this noise. Anybody have any good suggestions?
All channels humming? Amp and preamp plugged into same outlet/circuit?

Easiest way to see if it's a ground loop is to temporarily lift the ground with a "cheater" plug.

Cheers,
SC
post #1161 of 1268
Looking at your rack I don't see a single piece of power protection equipment. Am I wrong in that assumption? Some of the more advanced power protection units can go a long way to internally "fixing" any kind of ground loop and dirty power issues. The larger units can even handle your new high-current amplifier, fyi.

The one question I had for you is if there is anything....and I do mean anything....plugged into a different circuit than your head-end AV gear but is still connected to your system? Usually (but not always) you get the hum as a result in a difference between ground potential in two different circuits or two different legs of a sub panel. And this difference presents itself as a hum that easily comes through the low voltage cabling system. Here's a Wiki article on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

It would be a pain, but you may want to start by yanking power to each component one-by-one until the hum goes away to try and identify the source of the hum. If you've disconnected the power from everything but the amp and you still have the hum, then you've got bigger issues. But let's say you are able to isolate the component....well now you can start experimenting with individual wires to determine the cause in greater detail. But since a rack-mount surge protector is highly recommended anyhow, you just may want to go that route first. There are many options out there, but you could pick up a used top-of-the-line Monster unit on eBay in the $300 to $450 range: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONSTER-POWER-HTPS-7000-SIGNATURE-SERIES-/221289220371?pt=US_Power_Conditioners&hash=item3385dd8913. Belkin has a popular one here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812107800&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Power+Strips-_-N82E16812107800&gclid=CJ_p-dzv87kCFVKf4AodDGYAAA And then there's a whole bunch of "other" from Furman, Middle Atlantic, Tripp Lite, etc. which are essentially glorified power strips and not as heavy into ground loop isolation: http://www.parts-express.com/cat/rack-mount-power-distribution/259

And what I would call "the nuclear option" if all trouble shooting fails: http://ep2000.com/uploads/EP_Ground%20Filter.pdf This would be in addition to an advanced power protection device.

I hope this helps. How's the baby doing, by the way?
Edited by TMcG - 10/1/13 at 1:40am
post #1162 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecrabb View Post

All channels humming? Amp and preamp plugged into same outlet/circuit?

Easiest way to see if it's a ground loop is to temporarily lift the ground with a "cheater" plug.

Cheers,
SC

Yes, all channels that are hooked to the new amp. The two back surround speakers are not humming. They are still powered by the receiver. Receiver and amp are on different circuits. I have two dedicated lines running to my equipment room.

I used to have one of those that I made but threw it away after it had served it's purpose. Should I be plugging the amp into it to test or some other piece of equipment?
post #1163 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Looking at your rack I don't see a single piece of power protection equipment. Am I wrong in that assumption? Some of the more advanced power protection units can go a long way to internally "fixing" any kind of ground loop and dirty power issues. The larger units can even handle your new high-current amplifier, fyi.

The one question I had for you is if there is anything....and I do mean anything....plugged into a different circuit than your head-end AV gear but is still connected to your system? Usually (but not always) you get the hum as a result in a difference between ground potential in two different circuits or two different legs of a sub panel. And this difference presents itself as a hum that easily comes through the low voltage cabling system. Here's a Wiki article on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

It would be a pain, but you may want to start by yanking power to each component one-by-one until the hum goes away to try and identify the source of the hum. If you've disconnected the power from everything but the amp and you still have the hum, then you've got bigger issues. But let's say you are able to isolate the component....well now you can start experimenting with individual wires to determine the cause in greater detail. But since a rack-mount surge protector is highly recommended anyhow, you just may want to go that route first. There are many options out there, but you could pick up a used top-of-the-line Monster unit on eBay in the $300 to $450 range: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONSTER-POWER-HTPS-7000-SIGNATURE-SERIES-/221289220371?pt=US_Power_Conditioners&hash=item3385dd8913. Belkin has a popular one here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812107800&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Power+Strips-_-N82E16812107800&gclid=CJ_p-dzv87kCFVKf4AodDGYAAA And then there's a whole bunch of "other" from Furman, Middle Atlantic, Tripp Lite, etc. which are essentially glorified power strips and not as heavy into ground loop isolation: http://www.parts-express.com/cat/rack-mount-power-distribution/259

And what I would call "the nuclear option" if all trouble shooting fails: http://ep2000.com/uploads/EP_Ground%20Filter.pdf This would be in addition to an advanced power protection device.

I hope this helps. How's the baby doing, by the way?

Thanks for the response TMcG. You are correct. At this point I don't have any power protection in my rack. I do have a Monster Power MPAV800 sitting on the floor that I was going to use temporarily until I could find a long term solution. This would only be used for the projector, receiver and maybe the game consoles. I ultimately would like to have a battery backup just for the projector and surge/conditioner for everything else. I was under the impression that power amps were not to be plugged into surge protection/power conditioners due to power requirements and the fact that their own internal components do a pretty good job of filtering power as needed?

I have two circuits running to my equipment room. One circuit has the Emotiva amp, the EP4000 amp for the subs, the Behringer feedback destroyer, and network switch (I think). The other circuit has my receiver, PS3, Xbox 360, and projector. I tried pulling some power cords last night but didn't find anything that worked. When I unplugged the receiver the sound changed to static instead of a hum. Although I can't be 100% sure that the hum wasn't still there but it was masked by the static. Should the receiver and amp be on the same circuit?

Thanks for the protector options. Some of those I have seen while others are new to me. I was thinking that I should be looking at units with battery backup for the projector (even though I may only need it once a year since we don't have many power outages and I don't generally use the theater during thunderstorms) but maybe I should be applying the money to something with better surge/ac conditioner traits. Something like this or like this is what I have been thinking about.

Thanks for asking about the little one. He is doing great! Seven months old now and growing like a weed. We are on the edge of our seat waiting for him to figure out crawling. He is so close. Going to change the whole dynamic of the house when he becomes mobile. How is your little one doing?
post #1164 of 1268
Try using your Monster Power strip and putting the entire system on just one of the circuits temporarily to see if the hum goes away. Your system will easily run on one circuit, even when cranked, so no worries there. If you were to meter your actual ampere usage I'd be willing to bet that you would be seeing max draws in the 7 to 10 amp range, so there is still plenty of headroom. But for the sake of process of elimination, I'd start with everything on one circuit.

A lot of manufacturers recommend that the amps are plugged directly to the wall so they have unfettered access to current, but some of the better power protection devices have specialized sections specifically meant for these high-current draws. In a perfect world everyone would have an isolation transformer (and a 4k projector, and an anamorphic lens, and... smile.gif, which is essentially stored energy built into the surge suppression device. This is actually better than plugging the amp into the wall because 1. You have surge / spike / under / over voltage protection for your fancy amp and 2. the power delivery is instantaneous to the amp instead of the extra power coming from the transformer up on a pole down the street, several hundred meters (or more) away. But fair warning - these are extremely expensive.

I like the APC battery backup unit you chose to support the projector during an outage - it's a perfect fit with your system and inexpensive, which is a rare plus in this hobby!

Our little one just hit 6 months. Like yours, not crawling yet but doing one heck of a lot of kicking as a warm-up to mobility, we think! biggrin.gif He's still up a couple of times a night to feed, but we're past the colic / fussy / non-stop crying stage at this point (thankfully!). It's hard to imagine how 8 pounds can throw you into a complete tailspin of exhaustion, frustration and exasperation....but also a lot of worthwhile happiness as well. We are already counting on *nothing* being on the coffee tables and moving all the knick-knacks to higher ground, if you know what I mean! biggrin.gif
Edited by TMcG - 10/2/13 at 12:43am
post #1165 of 1268
Thread Starter 
I will have to give that a shot when I get a chance. Should be a pretty quick trial to see if it helps or not.

Isolation transformers, hmmm. Had to do a search to see what you were talking about. Does appear that if you get one big enough to power everything that they can get very pricey. Crossing my fingers that I can figure out a solution that doesn't require me to spend mega bucks.

I have been keeping an eye on the APC unit to see if it has any can't pass up sales. May have to put it on my Christmas list. biggrin.gif

Glad to hear the little guy is doing well. They do take up a lot of your time but, if I have to cut back on my work hours in the basement/theater, I can't think of a better reason. tongue.gif
post #1166 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Well, I had a little time this weekend to swap some things around and see if I could eliminate the hum. I installed my Monster surge protector and plugged the projector, receiver, PS3, 360, and the Feedback destroyer into it. I then moved the EP4000, the network switch, and the XPA-5 to the same circuit as the monster surge protector. Still have the same hum. As I listened a little closer I noticed that the hum was also coming from the amp itself. I have read that some people claim their amp runs dead silent while others report a hum from the amp while it is powered up. Since I'm not sure whether the amp should be making that noise or not I sent an email to Emotiva tech support. Waiting to hear back from them and see if they have any suggestions. If they don't have any suggestions then I will be back to unplugging everything to see if I can find the culprit. Haven't unplugged everything except the receiver and amp yet but will try that soon.
post #1167 of 1268
Could be the transformer itself perhaps?
post #1168 of 1268
Thread Starter 
It is possible but I want to rule out everything else first. Most of what I read on this amp is that it should run silent. Here is the response I just received from Emotiva tech support regarding my inquiry:

"Thank you again for your purchase of our amp. Almost always a hum is related to a power grounding issue. I would recommend that you disconnect all the inputs to the amp and see if the hum is still there. I would then try a different outlet to verify that isn't your problem. The usual culprit is the preamp, or sat/ cable boxes. If you isolate the preamp to only the speakers and don't hear the hum that is where I would look.

Please let me know the outcome of these test. I hope you have a great day."

Looks like I need to start moving some plugs around so I can get back to Emotiva in a timely manner.
post #1169 of 1268
Thread Starter 
This is the response I sent Emotiva last night after doing some investigating.

"I removed all connections from the XPA-5 except for the speaker wires and what I heard was only static from the speakers but still had a low hum from the amp itself. Then I plugged the RCA cables back into the amp with the receiver unplugged and got the same sounds. As soon as I plugged the receiver back into the power strip I got hum from the speakers and what seems to be a louder hum from the amp as well. Powering the receiver on or off doesn't change the sounds I am getting. I have two different 20A circuits in my equipment closet. Switching the receiver between being on the same circuit as the amp and a different circuit does not change anything. Thoughts??"

Anyone here have any suggestions?
post #1170 of 1268
Did you have all the other gear powered off when you had it without rca cables?
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