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The Grove Theater and Basement Build - Page 11

post #301 of 1268
Wow Vanice! The soffits look great!

I'm sure that I'm just forgetting, but what are your plans for lighting in the room?
post #302 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Thanks aaustin! I'm liking the way they turned out too. Toughest part so far has been trying to find straight 2x2's to work with. rolleyes.gif

If you followed the Bacon Race theater build, my lighting will be just like that. I think I will have (15) 3" cans around the inside perimeter of the soffit. Four down each side, three in the back, and four across the front. Can't wait to get there because I need more light in this room. Working off a couple of 500 watt bulbs is ok but it seems like every time I turn around I am blinding myself.
post #303 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Thanks aaustin! I'm liking the way they turned out too. Toughest part so far has been trying to find straight 2x2's to work with. rolleyes.gif
If you followed the Bacon Race theater build, my lighting will be just like that. I think I will have (15) 3" cans around the inside perimeter of the soffit. Four down each side, three in the back, and four across the front. Can't wait to get there because I need more light in this room. Working off a couple of 500 watt bulbs is ok but it seems like every time I turn around I am blinding myself.

Since someone else sent me a PM just a few weeks ago about doing their lighting just like mine, I thought I'd just mention it here too... the message asked how I could put all 15 3" cans on a single lighting circuit and not exceed the maximum watts of the dimmer. Just a reminder that The front lights are on a totally different dimmer than the side/rear ones.
post #304 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Since you had two dimmers side by side did you have to derate them in terms of wattage allowed per dimmer? I am using Insteon dimmers and will have to derate the dimmers since I am putting two next to each other in double gang boxes. This will hurt my layout somewhat. Still haven't figured out how I am going to wire them up. Had hoped to do like you and put all but the fronts on one and the front four on a separate one. Now that I think about it I won't be able to do that either because of the derated dimmers. The Insteon dimmers are good for 600 watts or 400 watts if they are installed next to another dimmer.
post #305 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Since you had two dimmers side by side did you have to derate them in terms of wattage allowed per dimmer? I am using Insteon dimmers and will have to derate the dimmers since I am putting two next to each other in double gang boxes. This will hurt my layout somewhat. Still haven't figured out how I am going to wire them up. Had hoped to do like you and put all but the fronts on one and the front four on a separate one. Now that I think about it I won't be able to do that either because of the derated dimmers. The Insteon dimmers are good for 600 watts or 400 watts if they are installed next to another dimmer.

I didn't de-rate them. I know they recommend that due to heat. There are 2 different 2-gang boxes for mine. One has the rope light and step lights, the other has all of the soffit lights. I should have, and probably still could, put the two different soffit light dimmers in different boxes. The rope light is pretty much never on. (We only really use it for showing people the room) And the step lights are only ever on when others aren't. I rarely ever turn on ALL of the lights together. The dimmer for the 12 lights does get quite warm after a while. We did run them all-on while we were doing construction all day for a few weekends without problems. There is never a time where I am in the room with the lights on doing something for more than an hour at most. Usually just for fixing things or entering/leaving the theater. If it was more of a multi-user room I could see more of a need to do that.

EDIT: I just checked the documentation below, and it says to use 600W alone, 500W with a dual gang, and 400W for 3+ side-by-side. (I am using 11x50W, and 4x50W, so maybe I'll find some lower watt bulbs hehe)
http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/45071Zig.pdf
Edited by damelon - 8/20/12 at 1:43pm
post #306 of 1268
Thread Starter 
The 50 watt bulbs look like they light the room up well. Would you be worried about not having enough light if you went to 35 watt bulbs?
post #307 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

The 50 watt bulbs look like they light the room up well. Would you be worried about not having enough light if you went to 35 watt bulbs?

That might be a little dim. I really couldn't know unless I tried. The light at full brightness is comfortable enough to do whatever I need to do. If it were dimmer, it would start to get uncomfortable for things like focusing on things like reading a manual, doing some work, etc. That you really need to see in a theater beyond not bumping into things depends on what you want to use it for, or making it multi-use.

To be honest, I just looked on ebay for GU10, 9W Dimmable LED bulbs. (9W LED is about a 50W equivalent, if not a little brighter) and you can get them for like $4-6 ea if you look. I just ordered 4 @ $4.19 ea so I will try them out on the front section when I get them (probably will take 1-2 weeks since they come from china or something) If they work out they will be awesome and last forever. If they don't, i'm only out $16. Plus I can get them in "Cool White"
Edited by damelon - 8/21/12 at 6:14am
post #308 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Oh, that sounds like a good experiment. I can't wait to hear your results. It may influence the way I wire up my lights.
post #309 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Oh, that sounds like a good experiment. I can't wait to hear your results. It may influence the way I wire up my lights.

I'll keep you posted once I get them. Will probably be early September.
post #310 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Kind of at a stand still right now. I put up another small ladder section last night but it is about the last section I can do before I complete a couple of other steps. I need to cut another hole for the supply dead vent in the front right corner and also complete the sub wall before I can fill in any more soffit sections. The sub wall work will be this weekend and most likely the dead vent hole will be too. Maybe I'll start carrying my stage and riser materials down so that I can start work on those when I get a chance. Also need to do some lighting and switches in the rest of the basement so I'll probably do that tonight. Man, I could use a helper during the week. rolleyes.gif
post #311 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Thanks aaustin! I'm liking the way they turned out too. Toughest part so far has been trying to find straight 2x2's to work with. rolleyes.gif
If you followed the Bacon Race theater build, my lighting will be just like that. I think I will have (15) 3" cans around the inside perimeter of the soffit. Four down each side, three in the back, and four across the front. Can't wait to get there because I need more light in this room. Working off a couple of 500 watt bulbs is ok but it seems like every time I turn around I am blinding myself.

It's probably a little late now, but if you can't find any straight 2x2's you might want to try ripping some 2x4's in half.

I love the look of lights shining down from the soffit. The way they "wash" the wall is really nice.

Are you still planning on doing the RGB LED strip lights? Did you plan your wiring to the soffit for them?
post #312 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Ripping 2x4's never really crossed my mind. I don't have a table saw and the added work seems like a major pain. I have a lumber yard near my house that I got the 2x2's from. Most have been useable but a few are terrible. Of course this is 1000% better than the selection at the big box stores. I'm not sure they have a straight piece in the whole place. The big box stores selection of 2x2's is laughable (at least around here). If I need more I can just return the bad ones and grab the few more that I need. So far I think I will be ok on quantity and quality but it will be close.

The lighting does give off a nice look when it is against the wall in a soffit. They will also be set so that each column has a light right above it. I like the way that looks as well. Almost highlights the design elements.

I do still plan on using RGB LED strip lights. Right now I have a cable pull off a dimmer that will run to the front left corner of the room. Not sure if I will hardwire it into the power supply or put an outlet up there that I can dim. Don't know which way would be the best. Thinking the outlet but open to public opinion.
post #313 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

I didn't de-rate them. I know they recommend that due to heat. There are 2 different 2-gang boxes for mine. One has the rope light and step lights, the other has all of the soffit lights. I should have, and probably still could, put the two different soffit light dimmers in different boxes. The rope light is pretty much never on. (We only really use it for showing people the room) And the step lights are only ever on when others aren't. I rarely ever turn on ALL of the lights together. The dimmer for the 12 lights does get quite warm after a while. We did run them all-on while we were doing construction all day for a few weekends without problems. There is never a time where I am in the room with the lights on doing something for more than an hour at most. Usually just for fixing things or entering/leaving the theater. If it was more of a multi-user room I could see more of a need to do that.
EDIT: I just checked the documentation below, and it says to use 600W alone, 500W with a dual gang, and 400W for 3+ side-by-side. (I am using 11x50W, and 4x50W, so maybe I'll find some lower watt bulbs hehe)
http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/45071Zig.pdf

I just took another look at my electrical layout. I should be good with the stage lights on one switch and the rest of the 3" lights on another. The main switch going into the room will control the 11 main lights around the perimeter and it is in a single gang box. The stage cans will be controlled by a switch that is mounted near the lights and doesn't have a physical knob or anything that you can flip. It will be strictly controlled within the Insteon programming. All other dimmers in 2 gang boxes will be controlling LED's so there is no worry about wattage there. So I should be good. No worries about switching bulbs unless I just want to save a little money on my power usage. What a relief.
post #314 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

I think I will have (15) 3" cans around the inside perimeter of the soffit. Four down each side, three in the back, and four across the front.

I believe 12 fixtures is the code maximum allowed if I am not mistaken. From an electrical perspective, the 6 zone Grafik Eye can handle a maximum of 800 watts from each zone with a maximum of 2000 watts total between all zones. LED fixtures naturally throw all this old-school electric knowledge right out the window....
post #315 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

I do still plan on using RGB LED strip lights. Right now I have a cable pull off a dimmer that will run to the front left corner of the room. Not sure if I will hardwire it into the power supply or put an outlet up there that I can dim. Don't know which way would be the best. Thinking the outlet but open to public opinion.

They all work off a 12v transformer that runs off a solid, non-dimmed 120v. So put a 120v receptacle there - non dimmed - and simply plug in the transformer. Most of the kits operate off a credit card sized remote so you do not have the other side of the receptacle connected to a switch, even if it is just an on/off switch. Probably preferable to keep the transformer "hot" at all times and simply use the remote to turn things on and off / change colors / dim / cycle / etc.
post #316 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I believe 12 fixtures is the code maximum allowed if I am not mistaken. From an electrical perspective, the 6 zone Grafik Eye can handle a maximum of 800 watts from each zone with a maximum of 2000 watts total between all zones. LED fixtures naturally throw all this old-school electric knowledge right out the window....

I am only running 11 on one switch. I don't believe there is a maximum number as long as you are below roughly 80% of the rated load for the circuit. I could be wrong but this is how I plan to install them.
post #317 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

They all work off a 12v transformer that runs off a solid, non-dimmed 120v. So put a 120v receptacle there - non dimmed - and simply plug in the transformer. Most of the kits operate off a credit card sized remote so you do not have the other side of the receptacle connected to a switch, even if it is just an on/off switch. Probably preferable to keep the transformer "hot" at all times and simply use the remote to turn things on and off / change colors / dim / cycle / etc.

Probably true. Dang. Now I need to get two more Insteon switches since I have another LED location that I want to wire up. Oh well. At least I have another place I can use them.
post #318 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

They all work off a 12v transformer that runs off a solid, non-dimmed 120v. So put a 120v receptacle there - non dimmed - and simply plug in the transformer. Most of the kits operate off a credit card sized remote so you do not have the other side of the receptacle connected to a switch, even if it is just an on/off switch. Probably preferable to keep the transformer "hot" at all times and simply use the remote to turn things on and off / change colors / dim / cycle / etc.

+1

Just install an outlet up there to plug the transformer in. No switch is needed since everything is controlled by the remote. You'll just have to make sure you can fit the transformer somewhere on the light tray.
post #319 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Ok, finally have a full weekend to dedicate to the theater. First up is finishing the IB enclosure. I'm thinking that I can knock this out pretty easily this weekend. I won't install the speakers yet to protect them from damage but it should be pretty easy to slap them in later.

Hopefully I will have plenty of extra time to work on the rear riser as well. Need to pick up a few things for assembly but nothing major. I also need to cut my last dead vent hole which should allow me to complete my front soffit.

Here's to lofty goals for the weekend! biggrin.gif
post #320 of 1268
Vanice,
Bottom's up on that toast!
Hope your weekend is productive, because we need new photos smile.gif
post #321 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Thanks cuzed! I will definitely have a few Saturday night to hopefully mark a good productive day. More pics will definitely be on the way. Enough of me yapping. biggrin.gif
post #322 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

I am only running 11 on one switch. I don't believe there is a maximum number as long as you are below roughly 80% of the rated load for the circuit. I could be wrong but this is how I plan to install them.

I checked my handy dandy NEC and actually called my local code official (not uncommon since I pulled my own permit to finish out my basement) and you are correct - there is no maximum for devices per the NEC as long as the circuit is derated to 80% maximum capacity. However, the electrical inspector stressed that his office is very strict to limiting circuits to 12 devices with only a few exceptions as their own "local code". Must have been where I recalled my information. Of course YMMV....

Are you heading to CEDIA this year since it is so close (jealous)?
post #323 of 1268
Thread Starter 
TMcG - Thanks for checking on my electrical. I feel pretty safe on my layout because I should be well below the 80% threshold of my 20 amp circuit.

Don't you have to be a Cedia member to attend? If not, yes I would love to attend. I can imagine there are a lot of really cool things to check out. And it is literally in my backyard.
post #324 of 1268
Thread Starter 
The weekend update.

Well, there was some good and some not so good. I'll start by saying that I didn't complete near what I thought I could. That is most of the bad news. I can break down the bad news into a few areas that really slowed me down or changed my intended schedule.

1) Spending almost two hours Saturday morning at the home improvement stores getting supplies for the weekend. I had no intentions of it taking this long and would have definitely gone during the week if I owned a truck. As it was I had to wait until my father showed up Saturday morning to get my supplies. Big frustration there.

2) Ripping MDF without a table saw takes twice as long. I purchased an 8' rip fence for my circular saw which made for good cuts but setup time between each cut was very time consuming.

3) Ran out of glue that I had bought Saturday morning. I usually buy more than I need and return what I don't use. This was not one of those times. Live and learn.

4) I had some plywood flooring in the basement that needed reanchored before the riser was to be installed. Since the powder actuated anchors let me down some previously I decided to try the way more expensive tapcons. Well, they did not cooperate either. Took forever to get a hole made and then when I tried to screw in the anchor... spin and straight to the bottom. I tried three more times before giving up on them and going back to the powder actuated anchors. This little experiment with new anchors cost me about an hour and a half. mad.gif

5) Carrying 2x12's to the basement... knew that I had to do it, didn't realize how tired I would be afterwards. Add in 15 minutes for a break. rolleyes.gif

So that takes me through the delays and time consumers. Now on to the work that was actually completed.

Started Saturday ripping down MDF to construct my sub wall. Then breaking out the router and the new Jasper Jig to make a lot of holes. Here are two pieces prior to gluing and screwing together.
IMG_2384.jpg

And here is a shot of three pieces glued and screwed together. The MDF is 3/4" thick for a total thickness of 2 1/4". Hopefully this will be strong enough to withstand the forces on them. Don't worry, there will be more reinforcement to come.
IMG_2385.jpg

After waiting for most of the day, the piece was transferred to the basement. Here you can see the side pieces for the front wall section. These will help strengthen the wall section and also give me a solid place to attach the whole assembly to the cutout.
IMG_2394.jpg

So that completes the work for most of Saturday. I had to stop a little early because of some evening plans (maybe I should add that to my list above wink.gif). I had hoped to have this section complete. Oh well...

On to Sunday and a fresh start. Began by carrying down all of my 2x12's. Suck... Moved about 18 sheets of OSB because they were in my way for constructing the riser. Double suck... Anchor issues (see above). Really suck...

Now on to some actual building. Laid down some #30 roofing felt and began building my rear riser. Nothing too crazy here. The base was completed but no step nor filling yet. Sometime this week I will add my conduit and insulation. Also need to figure out my plan for the step light. Here are a couple of pics.
Looking towards the back of the room. Your typical riser...
IMG_2390.jpg

IMG_2389.jpg

IMG_2393.jpg

And a shot showing the holes for the conduit. (Please ignore the short board. Not sure what happened there because everything was cut with a stop on my miter saw.)
IMG_2391.jpg

And finally, a pic showing the conduit hole that goes into the equipment room and the step light power coming from the switch in the equipment room. There's nothing like drilling through two layers of OSB/GG/DW. I was a little nauseous when that drill hit the wall.
IMG_2392.jpg

So that is the weekend update. I didn't complete the IB enclosure, the riser is incomplete, and I didn't touch the soffit BUT... I did finish with all my fingers and I still have my drive to keep moving this thing forward. Thanks for following along. biggrin.gif
post #325 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

TMcG - Thanks for checking on my electrical. I feel pretty safe on my layout because I should be well below the 80% threshold of my 20 amp circuit.
Don't you have to be a Cedia member to attend? If not, yes I would love to attend. I can imagine there are a lot of really cool things to check out. And it is literally in my backyard.

It was really for my own knowledge and learning regarding the electrical. I think it is funny how different local inspectors enforce the same NEC differently.

I do have a way in to CEDIA as guests through industry contacts...interested? Send me a PM.
post #326 of 1268
Gotta love the smell of fresh progress photos on a Monday morning.
Nice job Vanice!

And I truly appreciate the time spent to/from stores for supplies. I'll bet 30% of the time for my build was spent in, or to & from home improvement stores smile.gif
post #327 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Design question:

I like Cinemar's oak nosings and LED step lights and would like to incorporate them into my riser. However I do not want to put wood nosings on my stage. Would it be ok to use wood nosings on the riser and wrap carpet around the nosings on the stage? I guess I'm wondering if the mix and match will look good or blah?
post #328 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Design question:
I like Cinemar's oak nosings and LED step lights and would like to incorporate them into my riser. However I do not want to put wood nosings on my stage. Would it be ok to use wood nosings on the riser and wrap carpet around the nosings on the stage? I guess I'm wondering if the mix and match will look good or blah?

I pretty much like everything Cinemar did haha. I wish I had the time or patience for that kind of wood work! The LED lighting, especially on the steps, was way cool
post #329 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

And I truly appreciate the time spent to/from stores for supplies. I'll bet 30% of the time for my build was spent in, or to & from home improvement stores smile.gif

I went to the home improvement stores so often that a lot of the employees got to know me by name and would ask how the project is going. smile.gif

Looking sweet Vanice! Keep up the good work!

In regards to your carpet vs. oak question, I think that it would look fine to have carpet on the stage and the oak on the riser.
post #330 of 1268
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses. I really like the step lights he did so that is why I am looking to match it. To match it, I think I need to have a wood edge vs. a wrapped carpet edge. BUT... I don't want to try and fabricate my own curved edges for the front stage. I think that will drag down the project and I also don't want reflective surfaces near the screen. Leaning towards having the two different edge styles.
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