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Need help on first HT purchase! - Page 2

post #31 of 56
12/29/11 at 4:13pm
Thread Starter 
to answer your question Duc i would prob get my ass kicked trying to build my own. In a perfect world I would look up how to do it and follow directions but things just dont work out that way for me haha it would turn into a disaster.
The PA-150 looks like the best bet so far, ill have to look at more of the reviews.
Bluef0x i might have to look into those BIC PL-89, they look like they would be better than both the infinity primus and polk monitor 70s
I know its a bad idea to say in these forums but maybe ill look into stretching the budget a bit on the sub especially if only $100-200 more would open up a lot more doors.
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post #32 of 56
12/29/11 at 9:05pm
yeah, i know how you feel... i was at the polks, but then i read about how many ppl have problems with the tweeters at high volumes.

now i need to stretch the budget, but the PL-89s and PA-150 seems perfect for what i want. everyone in the BIC thread seems to love them. they are also super efficient and the horn tweeter is supposed to be great for large areas.

if you take the plunge before i do, let me know how they work out :P
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post #33 of 56
12/31/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfrog View Post

I use the sub for movies and music. I don't listen to dubstep much but for what I need it's more than enough. I strongly feel it's the best bang for your buck sub under $200.

Your not putting me down at all, I'm the first to say I don't know a whole lot about speakers. I almost bought that $100 Polk 10" sub till someone told me to try the F12. All I know Is the sub is in a very large room and it gets very loud.



I have mine in a corner so I'm sure that helps a little as well, not sure how much difference it makes but that's what I read is best for open rooms. The F12 was on sale for $125 on black friday (Normal price of $183 which is what I paid). The OP could possibly pick one up to use while he plans his dream setup.

The F12 is a great sub for the price paid. I paid $180, and have no regrets. I have mine sitting in the corner next to my couch, and I can easily feel it hit with it at about 1/3 volume. I too think it's the best thing at this price range.

The PA-150 looks like a good choice for your needs, just realize that the peak power is 1000 watts, while the "rms" is 250 watts. We all know these are just numbers and don't necessarily determine the speaker's loudness, but I've always felt uneasy when a speaker's "rms" rating is so far from it's "peak" rating. I'm honestly not sure how this sub performs in the spaces you guy's have, so this is purely opinion.
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post #34 of 56
12/31/11 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skri///ex View Post

I know its a bad idea to say in these forums but maybe ill look into stretching the budget a bit on the sub especially if only $100-200 more would open up a lot more doors.

A couple hundred more would get you a sub that is in a better class in terms of sound quality and flatter frequency response. The PA-150 has a frequency response curve that looks like a black diamond ski slope, and you would get still get more mid-bass volume out of the PA-150. To get a sub that rivaled it in volume with the better frequency response and sound quality, you'd need to jump to something like the SVS PB12-NSD or the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX.
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post #35 of 56
12/31/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

The PA-150 looks like a good choice for your needs, just realize that the peak power is 1000 watts, while the "rms" is 250 watts. We all know these are just numbers and don't necessarily determine the speaker's loudness, but I've always felt uneasy when a speaker's "rms" rating is so far from it's "peak" rating. I'm honestly not sure how this sub performs in the spaces you guy's have, so this is purely opinion.

There is test data by Ricci (who writes reviews now for Audioholics) on the PA-150, and the amplifier does not seem to be the problem. It has been measured to peak at 118db; the problem is that it happens at 63hz and then drops 20db by 25hz. This is pretty typical behavior for large budget subs in this range (the BIC and Cadence subs are similar).
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post #36 of 56
1/2/12 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

There is test data by Ricci (who writes reviews now for Audioholics) on the PA-150, and the amplifier does not seem to be the problem. It has been measured to peak at 118db; the problem is that it happens at 63hz and then drops 20db by 25hz. This is pretty typical behavior for large budget subs in this range (the BIC and Cadence subs are similar).

I see. I looked purely at specs and not much at performance reviews. Should have, just didn't have the time. I meant that amps with such contrasting peak and rms ratings always make me suspicious. Especially with budget equipment. I'll have to check out that test data when I get a chance.
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post #37 of 56
1/2/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

I meant that amps with such contrasting peak and rms ratings always make me suspicious.

It shouldn't. That's a common feature for subwoofers so that the sub amps can better handle the momentary peaks in audio output in HT. You'll see it in top, high quality subs such as the HSU VTF-3 MK4.
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post #38 of 56
1/3/12 at 5:33am
wow, you have big expectations on very little money.in my opinion the best i could come up with is to go to audiogon and look. they have apair of polk lsi7 forsale at $350 and a paradigm sw2200 sub for $360 both i'm sure you can haggle the price.you might get them for around 600 for both .they might be used but are by far better than alot of stuff mentioned here.i'm sure they might give you some decent sound in your large room.iknow this might be a little over budget but again its also a great start for surround system.the harman kardon reciever would also be great for 2 ch. listening.but if your looking foreward on surround system you might want to go for an avr reciver just my 2 cents
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post #39 of 56
1/5/12 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 
Ok guys after a mind blogging week of research I finally hit the checkout button on the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus from Bstock for 449 shipped. I almost got the LFM-1 EX for 579 shipped but didnt think my non-discerning ears would be able to tell a big enough difference to justify the $130. Hope I made the right choice =).

Now on to the tower speakers, Receiver unit, and room placement for the sub. (Doubt I will have enough room next to the fire place to put the sub so I might have to get creative, any ideas?)

Ill take a look at those LSi7 you listed. Probably worlds better than polk monitor 60's but they are on newegg right now for 119 shipped. Also looking at the BIC pl89's.. Any other good recommendations for towers and receiver?
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post #40 of 56
1/5/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skri///ex View Post

Ok guys after a mind blogging week of research I finally hit the checkout button on the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus from Bstock for 449 shipped. I almost got the LFM-1 EX for 579 shipped but didnt think my non-discerning ears would be able to tell a big enough difference to justify the $130. Hope I made the right choice =).

Welcome to the Outlaw Audio club. I have an EX that I bought on b-stock and love it

There would be no real difference in sound quality. The three main differences between the EX and the Plus are (1) the size of the enclosure, (2) the lower frequency range when in maximum extension mode (16hz vs 18hz), and (3) the volume output (3db more from the EX).

When you get it, try both maximum extension mode and maximum output mode. ME will go down below 20hz (good for movies); MO will give you a little better bass output at 50hz and below, but will drop rapidly after 25hz. Since most dubstep and electronica doesn't have below 25hz content, probably best choosing ME vs MO over whether you want to privilege movies or music.

Once you get the sub, if you need help on placement and setup, be sure to check out and ask questions in the Outlaw Owners Thread.
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post #41 of 56
1/5/12 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the warm welcome and ME vs MO advice and yes I will definitely need setup help.
I also just pulled the trigger on 2 Polk Audio Monitor 60's for 109 a piece shipped from New egg. Figured the sub would take care of the lows and I would use $140 I saved from not buying the monitor 70's and get a cs2 down the road. what you guys think so far?

So the Sub and the 2 floor speakers are taken care of, now just need the AVR and Wiring kits

currently considering onkyo tx NR609 $379 shipped at buy.com as recommened. Any better ideas or deals anyone knows? Also advice on the required wiring kits would be helpful
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post #42 of 56
1/5/12 at 3:39pm
For budget cables that are solidly made and work well, Monoprice has good subwoofer cables, RCAs, and HDMI, and they carry speaker wire (14 gauge is plenty unless you are running it across the room a long ways).

If you want to buy more expensive cables, Blue Jeans Cable is a better deal than expensive Monster Cables.
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post #43 of 56
1/8/12 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Ok so just bought my AVR from a friend who gets a big discount at bestbuy so here my system:
Denon 1912 (bestbuy $360)
Polk audio monitor 60 cherry (new egg$ 109 each)
Outlaw lfm plus (bstock $449)
Probably add a cs2 in a few months
What are your thoughts? Would love to get some feedback while I await the shipments
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post #44 of 56
1/8/12 at 5:27pm
The 1912 is a very good receiver. Now you have some studying to do

Since Denon's manuals are rather cryptic, you should read AVS members batpig's Denon setup resources and Audyssey FAQ. Also, read Outlaw's manual that comes with your sub.

When you setup your sub, the best practice goal is to set the gain (volume knob) on the sub to a volume such that Audyssey comes up with a trim (channel) level for the sub somewhere between -3db and +3db (this will make more sense after reading batpig). Run it for one listening position, and if it's too high or low, adjust the gain on the sub down more, even if it's lower than you think it needs to be. Run Audyssey again. Then when you get that right, you can run Audyssey for all the listening positions (and you should, following the setup guide). Then bump the sub channel level on the receiver up a couple db if you feel like it needs more bass.

Also, a good method for finding the best sub placement is to do a sub crawl.
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post #45 of 56
1/8/12 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skri///ex View Post

What are your thoughts? Would love to get some feedback while I await the shipments

It is better than what you have owned - however, you will still come
short of dubstep party levels, in that big wide open room. Good Luck.
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post #46 of 56
1/8/12 at 7:02pm
I'm curious as to where they are seeing 118dB with 350 Watts for that sub. Must be the midbass area...50 hz or higher...
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post #47 of 56
1/8/12 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lknhomeaudio View Post

I'm curious as to where they are seeing 118dB with 350 Watts for that sub. Must be the midbass area...50 hz or higher...

Probably relying on room gain (many of the manufacturers do). The CEA test data by Ricci shows 112db to 113db in MO mode consistently from 40hz up to 125hz.
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post #48 of 56
1/8/12 at 10:31pm
True...
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post #49 of 56
1/9/12 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Any other wires I need to get besides 14 gauge speaker and HDMI? Will the sub come with the cables needed to hook it up to the receiver?

Just FYI the subwoofer already came today. Never expected it to come this fast, although i missed the delivery but I am very impressed with Outlaws Bstock Shipping promptness
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post #50 of 56
1/9/12 at 1:20pm
Thread Starter 
Oh and Cel thanks for the Links, Read through the Denon to English Manual on setup and audyssey and made perfect sense.
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post #51 of 56
1/10/12 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
Just Unwrapped the LFM-1 plus. Pristine condition no scratches or dents whatsoever despite being bstock.

Heres a pic comparing the old sub I had vs the new one and my size 11 shoe for perspective. Quite a difference haha.

Picked up the Denon 1912 today from my friend and waiting for the monitor 60's which are also supposed to arrive via ups any minute. Very impressed with New egg and Outlaws shipping speeds.
Too bad i have to wait for the speaker wire and RCA subwoofer cables to come friday from monoprice.

Its ironic that the wiring is the only thing im going to be waiting on. Going to drive me nuts.
LL
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post #52 of 56
1/10/12 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skri///ex View Post

Just Unwrapped the LFM-1 plus. Pristine condition no scratches or dents whatsoever despite being bstock.

Heres a pic comparing the old sub I had vs the new one and my size 11 shoe for perspective. Quite a difference haha.

Picked up the Denon 1912 today from my friend and waiting for the monitor 60's which are also supposed to arrive via ups any minute. Very impressed with New egg and Outlaws shipping speeds.
Too bad i have to wait for the speaker wire and RCA subwoofer cables to come friday from monoprice.

Its ironic that the wiring is the only thing im going to be waiting on. Going to drive me nuts.

Wow. The shoe is a great addition to the picture because it makes the Sony look like shoebox in comparison
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post #53 of 56
1/10/12 at 7:21pm
Let me know how everything sounds please
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post #54 of 56
1/10/12 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Wow. The shoe is a great addition to the picture because it makes the Sony look like shoebox in comparison

Ouch. hahahah
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post #55 of 56
1/23/12 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
Well I got the everything hooked up 2 days ago so here are some quick impressions after using audyssey. I will put out a more comprehensive review later.
The bass fills the room better than I thought after I found the right spot. I could talk all day about how good verything sounded so heres the nit picks that might help future purchasers. at higher volumes there is a very large rattle coming from the back feet of the sub. This is caused by the carpet spikes just sitting in the metal disks. The subwoofer also walked around a lot even at lower volumes on the hardwood. I fixed both problems with thick double sided tape to buffer the spikes on the metal disks and also on the disks themselves where they meet the floor.

The 2 polk monitor 60's are very crisp yet need time to break in to blend with the sub better and mellow out. There seems to be a slight lack of mids despite having the sub set to 180hz and the crossover set at bypass letting the denon 1911 pick the filters.

I do have a problem in that i have an ugly sub wire running across the room to the side of my couch. After receiving the email about the combo of the lfm-1 ex and oaw3 for 648 I decided to bite. I just called to get the return shipping label for lfm-1 plus and have just purchased the combo lfm-1 ex and oaw3. No idea why I upgraded seeing how the lfm1-plus was fine for the room, i guess early onset upgrade fever got the best of me and i have the room for the larger box.

I do have one question. I have looked around a lot and havent seen a direct answer. The oaw3 wireless says it has a range of 20-2000hz. Does that mean it wont utilize the sub 20hz capabilities of the EX which is rated down to 16hz? If so this could mean a deal breaker
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post #56 of 56
1/23/12 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skri///ex View Post

at higher volumes there is a very large rattle coming from the back feet of the sub. This is caused by the carpet spikes just sitting in the metal disks. The subwoofer also walked around a lot even at lower volumes on the hardwood. I fixed both problems with thick double sided tape to buffer the spikes on the metal disks and also on the disks themselves where they meet the floor.

The EX came with the furniture pad type stuff on the bottom of the spikes. With mine, I did have to unscrew a couple of the spikes a little to get it so that the weight was evenly distributed on all four legs (my hardwood floors are uneven).

Sorry. I don't know the answer to the OAW question. You might should call Outlaw and ask.
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