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2K or 4K cinema films in the home

post #1 of 34
12/28/11 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Since 2K and 4K is now readily available in the home, albeit for a high price, is it possible to get copies of the movies that cinemas receive? For instance, after a film is released on DVD/Blu-Ray, is it possible to buy the 2K/4K cinema edition? For those with bottomless wallets, this would surely be an appealing purchase, to be able to watch cinema copies in their own home.
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post #2 of 34
12/28/11 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosteh View Post

Since 2K and 4K is now readily available in the home, albeit for a high price, is it possible to get copies of the movies that cinemas receive? For instance, after a film is released on DVD/Blu-Ray, is it possible to buy the 2K/4K cinema edition? For those with bottomless wallets, this would surely be an appealing purchase, to be able to watch cinema copies in their own home.

If you got the contacts, yes. Peter (Cineramax) has build a number of theaters for people who can and actually take delivery on DCi releases.
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post #3 of 34
12/28/11 at 11:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

If you got the contacts, yes. Peter (Cineramax) has build a number of theaters for people who can and actually take delivery on DCi releases.

Not that I could ever afford the contracts (at least in the foreseeable future), but what's a ballpark estimate on the price? Or does it vary greatly by film?
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post #4 of 34
12/29/11 at 5:31am
You cannot buy anything that is shown in movie theaters it is lent to people in the movie industry and for a very short time window and for playback once.(although on an old doremi server you could pause and rewind and play again )

4K Large format films is another matter, I might now more at the end of January.
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post #5 of 34
12/29/11 at 8:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

You cannot buy anything that is shown in movie theaters it is lent to people in the movie industry and for a very short time window and for playback once.(although on an old doremi server you could pause and rewind and play again )

4K Large format films is another matter, I might now more at the end of January.

Then how to movie theaters do it? I was under the impression that they received a hard drive of sorts with the film on it and that they were able to play that as many times as they like. What happens to that film when they are done? I don't see why film studios wouldn't be open to selling those special disks to DCI users at home if they have the setup and once the film is released on DVD/Blu Ray. It'd just be like an Ultra Blu Ray.

But perhaps my question was misphrased. Is it possible to buy 2K or 4K films (like the ones the theaters are given) to be played in home once the equivalent DVD/Blu Ray is released? I've never heard of it before, but I'd assume it'd have to be bought through the film studio, likely for a very hefty price.
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post #6 of 34
12/29/11 at 9:15am
No it is not possible. To the studio these master quality copies are like gold itself. Once they have been out on the theater circuit it is practically impossible to get these dci prints.

What controls the file which is usually 175 to 325 gb is a key. This can be emailed to open the file, it also closes it.

The only content that is available to keep is IMAX like content in 4K.
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post #7 of 34
1/1/12 at 3:25am
nothing is decided about cinema content at home.

its since some time a ongoing discussion and it will take time to bring
all studios to a common agreement if there will be a common agreement at all.

what ever the result will be one thing is clear DCI conten will be distribute only by dish.

dont forgeth that the bd camp will not sleep and likely they will offer in the not to
far future a better picture quality than todays bds have!
may not as good as dci but a big stepp up in picture quality for sure.
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post #8 of 34
1/2/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

No it is not possible. To the studio these master quality copies are like gold itself. Once they have been out on the theater circuit it is practically impossible to get these dci prints.

What controls the file which is usually 175 to 325 gb is a key. This can be emailed to open the file, it also closes it.

The only content that is available to keep is IMAX like content in 4K.


CINERAMAX is right... the studios can also control when the movies are played , they know the times the movies is to be shown in the theaters and when not .. the can revoke the key to the movie at any time they want there is a lot of security built in the distribution and delivery of movies ....
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post #9 of 34
1/2/12 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taker View Post


CINERAMAX is right... the studios can also control when the movies are played , they know the times the movies is to be shown in the theaters and when not .. the can revoke the key to the movie at any time they want there is a lot of security built in the distribution and delivery of movies ....

Actually studios can not revoke a key once it's sent out. It is a XML file ingested in the server. Once ingested no one has access to it but the owner.
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post #10 of 34
1/3/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post


Actually studios can not revoke a key once it's sent out. It is a XML file ingested in the server. Once ingested no one has access to it but the owner.

I'm interested in the process! Do explain please. So far I just know movies come on hard drives that are plugged in the servers. I read somewhere that the key is on a usb drive?

Also for you dci folks which brand is the "leading" one? I know of doremi and datasat (former dts?) And dolby
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post #11 of 34
1/3/12 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post


I'm interested in the process! Do explain please. So far I just know movies come on hard drives that are plugged in the servers. I read somewhere that the key is on a usb drive?

Also for you dci folks which brand is the "leading" one? I know of doremi and datasat (former dts?) And dolby

You got it right. A hard drive and a file, could be emailed. On the key, called KDM, are the projector and server unique ID or serial number, customer name location and allowed payout time. This KDM unlocks the film when the proper time comes and locks it back. BTW, you can't mess with the internal clock of the server

For the server side, Doremi, GDC, Dolby are popular in North America.
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post #12 of 34
1/3/12 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post

Actually studios can not revoke a key once it's sent out. It is a XML file ingested in the server. Once ingested no one has access to it but the owner.

I stand corrected then x.509 Certs that expire.. but I will never say the word can't" when bits are stored on a harddrive ... and hackers are always determined .....
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post #13 of 34
1/3/12 at 7:37pm
Doremi for Integrated media Boards and Dolby for Series One servers. They are linux boxes, with apparently interminable reams of code. Startup time for dolby is like 8 minutes 4 for doremi. The integrated media boards are still a bit of a work in progress.

The only reason I would get the imb is to get 4K, but the studios are requesting quad sdi inputs into the next gen projectors for their post work so 4k dlp projectors have only been deployed at cinemark .

Our 4k projector was hacked with dual hd sdi 2k input just to enjoy the upconverted content, we are extremely pleased with this approach and quite frankly have zero need for 4k. Watch me change my mind again at the symposium on the 9.
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post #14 of 34
1/3/12 at 8:06pm
Peter, you are the MAN
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post #15 of 34
1/3/12 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Doremi for Integrated media Boards and Dolby for Series One servers. They are linux boxes, with apparently interminable reams of code. Startup time for dolby is like 8 minutes 4 for doremi. The integrated media boards are still a bit of a work in progress.

The only reason I would get the imb is to get 4K, but the studios are requesting quad sdi inputs into the next gen projectors for their post work so 4k dlp projectors have only been deployed at cinemark .

Our 4k projector was hacked with dual hd sdi 2k input just to enjoy the upconverted content, we are extremely pleased with this approach and quite frankly have zero need for 4k. Watch me change my mind again at the symposium on the 9.

Please mind the silly question but are those media servers really that expensive? I always thought they were beefed up htpc's with custom software. As for the 4k stuff does regal really have 4k sonys in their auditoriums? I see they advertising it all the time. Man you guys who work with this stuff must have a fun time at work!
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post #16 of 34
1/4/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Please mind the silly question but are those media servers really that expensive? I always thought they were beefed up htpc's with custom software. As for the 4k stuff does regal really have 4k sonys in their auditoriums? I see they advertising it all the time. Man you guys who work with this stuff must have a fun time at work!


Sony projectors are 4K native. Sony have their own servers as well. As for the price of the servers, in your "expensive" HT world, everything is relative. Lets just say a server may cost you as much as a top notch 6ft AV cable LOLOL! I have seen them go for >10K$ !!!
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post #17 of 34
1/4/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post


Sony projectors are 4K native. Sony have their own servers as well. As for the price of the servers, in your "expensive" HT world, everything is relative. Lets just say a server may cost you as much as a top notch 6ft AV cable LOLOL! I have seen them go for >10K$ !!!

Wait till you read the reviews for the $1000 cables on amazon. Good stuff.

Here's another question, I know sonys tv department hasn't turned a profit for around 8 years but how is their projector depo doing? Quality? I would think they are good/doing good because it looks like regals has a exclusive contract with them.
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post #18 of 34
1/4/12 at 3:11pm
By the way - do the studios have some kind of whitelist of trusted server providers or one can send them any server certificate/public key and they will send the key message for that one? If so, it shouldn't be a great problem to recover the main film (dcp) key having (our own) "server" private key.
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post #19 of 34
1/4/12 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raus View Post

By the way - do the studios have some kind of whitelist of trusted server providers or one can send them any server certificate/public key and they will send the key message for that one? If so, it shouldn't be a great problem to recover the main film (dcp) key having (our own) "server" private key.

There is a "DCI" compliant list. Only approve equipment can legally run a DCI movie. http://www.dcimovies.com/
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post #20 of 34
1/4/12 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post


Wait till you read the reviews for the $1000 cables on amazon. Good stuff.

Here's another question, I know sonys tv department hasn't turned a profit for around 8 years but how is their projector depo doing? Quality? I would think they are good/doing good because it looks like regals has a exclusive contract with them.

Sony was able to secure AMC and Regal not based on quality...
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post #21 of 34
1/4/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post


Sony was able to secure AMC and Regal not based on quality...

Shame...I know cinemark uses barco in xd theaters and I liked em
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post #22 of 34
1/4/12 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post


Shame...I know cinemark uses barco in xd theaters and I liked em

In all their theatres
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post #23 of 34
1/4/12 at 7:31pm
Hello Marc. A lot of cinema owners are wondering when Barco will bring the anamorphic lens option back ( series two ). While the purist on this forum may pass on the option many cinema owners with scope screens could use the extra light for 3D. On a few film forums there is talk to partition Barco for this feature pressuring them into making anamorphic available again. While the software for the anamorphic stretch is avail ( can be created with the ICP software ) a mount for series two is needed. The 5-pin XLR connector on the Cinema Controller module, if you check the pin-out it conforms to the Anamorphic connector used on the DP100. Using such a lens cinema owners dont care about the contrast or MTF loss we care about here. Would be a plus for Barco and its dealers.

Thanks for listening.





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post #24 of 34
1/28/12 at 3:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by raus View Post

By the way - do the studios have some kind of whitelist of trusted server providers or one can send them any server certificate/public key and they will send the key message for that one? If so, it shouldn't be a great problem to recover the main film (dcp) key having (our own) "server" private key.

Look at the Security section of the DCI Spec. You'll have a better understanding.

http://www.dcimovies.com/DCIDigitalC...emSpecv1_2.pdf
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post #25 of 34
1/28/12 at 4:22am
if you are Pro & you own a Digital Cinema
, how do you play the DCI movies?

did the companies send you digital copies (HDDs)
or you download them to your server (e.g. Doremi)?

can you watch them whenever you want?

sorry for these noobie questions :P
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post #26 of 34
1/28/12 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

did the companies send you digital copies (HDDs) or you download them to your server (e.g. Doremi)?

They are sent ether Hard Drive or Satellite where content would then be ingested to the server.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

can you watch them whenever you want?

The Cinemas are provided a digital key with content allowing playback for a determined period of time. Once the key expires the drive is returned. Within that window playback is unlimited.


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post #27 of 34
1/28/12 at 8:49am
For comparison a good quality Blu-Ray might be 35 gig in size ( give or take ) that same title in D cinema would be 250 gig.
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post #28 of 34
1/28/12 at 2:15pm
Quote:


Look at the Security section of the DCI Spec. You'll have a better understanding.

And how does it answer my (in fact practical) question - what if i generate my own pair of private and public "DCI server" keys (not necessarily generated with certificate of DCI equipment producers) and ask for key file for my "server". Will I get a KDM for that or do they have a whitelist of trusted server producers for whom they only generate keys?
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post #29 of 34
1/28/12 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

For comparison a good quality Blu-Ray might be 35 gig in size ( give or take ) that same title in D cinema would be 250 gig.

Just curious as to if that, assuming all other things being equal, would provide a noticeably better picture quality over a standard bluray due to what I assume is a less compressed copy than what would be found on bluray.
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post #30 of 34
1/29/12 at 1:01am
Some video on youtube showed the thor 3d hard drive which had a label showing 74gb. Any reason for it being so small?
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