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235 Build - Page 15

post #421 of 542
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'm not ready to fire up the saw yet. On another note, my equipment closet sits outside the room near the entrance. I had one wall framed with the 2x4 installed on edge giving me a 1.5" deep frame. This fit perfectly with the 1.5" deep fans I bought.

From inside the equipment closet:

From the hallway:

post #422 of 542
Have you contacted Dennis yet?
Like I posted earlier, I don't know your complete build details or what is above your room but in my experience complete sound isolation is an ideal and if you are going to have any kind of serious low frequency reproduction and as long as your room is in the same confines as your living area, you are going to get transfer from the room to other areas of the house.

Any room above your theater room is going to get some transfer if you're cranking a movie with serious LFE.
2 layers of drywall and GG decoupled or OSB, drywall and GG decoupled is not going to totally isolate serious LFE driven to the levels that we know and love.
You can minimize it but even if you had a separate structure unless it was built of solid concrete, you'd have to have some ungodly door to keep all of the sound contained.

Ask the contractor if he can "fix it", I'm guessing he's going to balk at doing a redo with what is involved.
But even if it involves what you would do yourself, he should do that not you.

I realize it's easy for all of us to give you suggestions and marching orders because it's not our house and we don't have to deal with the contractor in person.
It's hard to be a hard-ass and not back down but he is ultimately responsible for the phuck up, right?
Edited by Milt99 - 6/17/13 at 7:31pm
post #423 of 542
Thread Starter 
I have pinged Dennis but no response yet.
I am 90% certain I won't leave it as-is. My contractor is coming by Thursday and I agree that he should be the one to fix his phuck up. I don't expect him to rip down the walls and do it over but I hope I can get him to try the solution mentioned earlier. If that fails then I'll buy myself a circular saw and go at it myself. On a positive note I used a low-profile wifi camera and some tent poles to push a camera along the ceiling by my North wall. That was the one wall that I was hopeful would be OK and sure enough it was uncoupled all the way along. The other three unfortunately will need to be dealt with.
post #424 of 542
What's your backup plan for when he cuts your cables while fixing it?
post #425 of 542
Thread Starter 
The wall with all the wires will be cut much lower to avoid coming anywhere near.
post #426 of 542
Originally Posted by 235 View Post

The wall with all the wires will be cut much lower to avoid coming anywhere near.

That's the plan for avoiding it, I asked about the plan for when it's happened. Say he mixes up which wall is which, or plainly forgets? "Always plan for worst case."
post #427 of 542
Thread Starter 
I'll make sure to be there when it happens. I also have empty conduit running to those locations. smile.gif
post #428 of 542
No more questions, your Honor!
post #429 of 542
Thread Starter 
The last little while I have finished painting the rest of the basement so now I can turn my attention back to this coupled ceiling. It's finally time to cut baby cut.

Removed drywall layer screws to allow ceiling to push down on the wall and hopefully close the gap left by the circular saw blade.....

Ran the circular saw about 1.5" away from the ceiling and deep enough to cut through drywall and OSB layers.....

The gap was not closing on its own so I started removing drywall above the cut line to see if I could find any screws in the OSB layer. I removed about 4' worth and didn't find any screws. So why is the ceiling not dropping? OSB memory in the ceiling is keeping it there?

I attached the hook and handle and had my son (100ish lbs) hang off of it. This did cause the ceiling to come down a little but it springs back up once he lets go mad.gif

post #430 of 542
Thread Starter 
Am I S.O.L ?
post #431 of 542
maybe just need to do entire length of wall not just the 4' or so you did. The rest of the wall that is not cut is probaly holding it up.
post #432 of 542
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post

maybe just need to do entire length of wall not just the 4' or so you did. The rest of the wall that is not cut is probaly holding it up.


I agree.  You may need to cut much more to get it to drop.  What have you got to lose at this point?

post #433 of 542
Thread Starter 
The room is 13' wide. I cut the whole way except for the corners where the circular saw can't reach.
post #434 of 542
I know it's old fashioned but in this case, you'll need to go old school...

It may suck, but it will get you to the corner.
post #435 of 542
Thread Starter 
Where's the electrical cord on that thing? Do you think the uncut corners might actually be holding up the ceiling in the middle of the room? With the supporting corners being over 6' away I would have thought the ceiling would have dropped near the middle of the room. I'm heading south for a 2 week holiday but I'll be starting to focus back on the theater when I get back.
post #436 of 542
hey maybe it will drop while you are gone. Never know biggrin.gif
post #437 of 542
Thread Starter 
High pressure system is coming through maybe that will help tongue.gif
post #438 of 542
LMAO biggrin.gif
post #439 of 542
So how did the high pressure system work out for you?rolleyes.gif
post #440 of 542
Thread Starter 
Need more kilopascals, maybe I can pressurize the air between the two walls biggrin.gif
I just got back from the door shop to give them my specs for machining the hinges in the solid door. Once the door is ready I will mount it and do some testing to see if I'm happy with the soundproofing as-is.
I will be ordering a door sweep from Ted and will be putting up my own kerf door stops with seals. Can anyone point me to some suggestions on doing this?
post #441 of 542
I just read and added this entire thread to my arsenal. I have never seen such detail with Sketchup.
Last post by 235 was August 25th, now its Oct 1st....235 are you alive???? tongue.gif:p:p
What is the latest on this? Did Dennis Erskine get back to you on the coupling issue?
What did the contractor say? Any discount from him because of it?
post #442 of 542
Thread Starter 
Huh, what? Has it been over a month since my last post? I have since parted ways with my contractor on less than friendly terms. We had agreed to a fixed price for the entire basement at the outset. As work progressed he decided he would retroactively add some 'extra' costs. I asked him to confirm that there would be no other extras for the outstanding work (mostly the inside of the theater room) but he said some of the theater details would probably be extra. At that point I stopped paying him any more installments. He threatened to take legal action, I got my own legal advice and he has since disappeared. I guess even the most detailed sketchup plans can't protect you from a bad contractor.

As a result I am now making some slow progress on my own. Dennis never got back to me on the coupled ceiling perimeter issue so I am working towards just testing it out as-is to see if I'm happy with the results (major finger-crossing). I picked up my solid door and just had it installed. I also figured out the threshold to accomodate the drop seals. I just need to get the seals installed and then I can hookup my speakers and blast away. I'll have some pics soon.
post #443 of 542
Will keep my fingers crossed that the results are still satisfactory.
post #444 of 542
me to good luck
post #445 of 542
Thread Starter 
As promised.....

Hinge-side is douglas fir to support solid core door. I added a few screws before the hinge went in so that I could hit the studs.

Wide-throw hinges to allow for 2" of wall treatments:

Lynden solid core door (still needs to be stained):

Ripped a piece of 2x4 for a solid threshold.

Added weatherstripping.

post #446 of 542
Thread Starter 
Now that I have the door installed and sealed up I decided to test the sound isolation. Wow am I disappointed frown.gif
If you recall when the contractor installed the walls it caused the ceiling to be pushed up into the floor joists above all along the perimeter of the room. The ceiling is hanging from clips/channel except for the last 6" around the perimeter allowing for this mess to occur. Here are a few quick measurements I took inside the room using a radio shack dbc meter:

- 31 db inside the room and outside (quiet house and nobody making any noises)
- 60 db inside the room with someone walking bare feet on hardwood floor above
- 45 db inside the room with someone clanging dishes in kitchen above
- 40 db inside the room with someone slamming microwave door in kitchen above
- 31 db inside the room with high pitch stove timer beeping in kitchen above (can still hear it in theater room)

I have to try some measurements on sound leaving the room but I was initially playing music in the room at around 85db peaks and could only hear faint bass and mild vibration in hardwood floor above. I tried at 95db and things were not so quiet above. I wasn't testing with overly heavy bass tracks either so my initial impressions were not great.

At this point I haven't build my soffits yet so to try and 'adjust' for this I simply stuffed the 3x8" HVAC vents with towels. I think my biggest problem is the coupled ceiling perimeter. I also have an unfilled gap the width of the circular saw blade on one wall (as shown in one of my recent posts).

My next step is to run the circular saw all around the room to try to decouple the ceiling perimeter. Unless you guys can convince me that the isolation I'm getting now is close to what I should expect given my construction:

- dual stud walls, 5/8" OSB + GG + 5/8" DW, pink insulation and 5/8" DW on outside wall
- whisper clips and 5/8" OSB + GG + 5/8" DW, pink insulation in ceiling

Thoughts? Does anyone have hardwood floors above their room? Do you hear foot-fall noise? Dishes clanging above? Thx.
post #447 of 542
I know the plan was to build your soffits inside the drywalled bunker. Given your decoupling issue, would it be possible to cut out the section of ceiling that is coupled around the perimeter of the room and hide the cutout INSIDE a DD+GG soffit (like the area with the black "X" in the photo below)? Probably not as ideal as your original method, but I'm guessing it would be better than a coupled scenario.

EDIT: Depending on your channel placement in the ceiling, you might not have to cut out as much as I showed with the black "X". Since the coupling is only occuring at the very edge (between the wall and first channel), you would only need to cut back to the first channel. In the pic, that would be much closer to the wall. Is there a chance you don't have that first channel that is shown pretty close to the wall? I could see how the ceiling might get pushed up and come in contact with the joists if the first channel was too far from the wall.
Edited by Spaceman - 10/14/13 at 7:26am
post #448 of 542
Hi 235 - Very sorry to hear about your troubles with additional charges from the contractor. Sounds like it's best that you parted ways, especially because he apparently wasn't prepared to fix the problem he created in the theater.

I do have hardwood in my kitchen which is directly above my theater. If I pause a movie so my cousin (210lbs.) can clomp upstairs to grab another round from the fridge, I can hear some minor footfall noise.
However, if my girlfriend (half his size) is in the kitchen and it is silent in the theater, footfall noise is only barely perceptible (if at all). So the moral of this story is that I need a larger fridge in the basement. smile.gif However, while I haven't tried clanging pans together above the theater, I can say that timers, microwave door, dishes, etc. produce no realistically audible sound within the theater. (If it is dead silent in the theater and I am concentrating on a particular sound and holding my breath, I might be able to make it out, but it seems that we're getting a bit extreme at that point.)

I haven't tried with an SPL meter but I have been meaning to pick one up, so I'll let you know when I get around to that.

Best of luck with getting back on track here, and I think it is an excellent idea to try to get an understanding of a what is a "reasonable" soundproofing result, as well as how much things may improve if you do/do not fix the issues you're currently addressing.
post #449 of 542
Thread Starter 
Thanks Spaceman, the channels are around 6" away from the walls (depending on the wall) as shown in this post. My original thoughts on a solution were based more on attacking the wall as seen in this post.
Are you suggesting running the saw through the ceiling and removing that piece (including digging out the stair-step portions of the OSB/DW wedged above the wall)? Would I then try to replace that with another thinner piece or just leave it open and hope the soffit provides the isolation? My soffit design calls for a single layer of 3/4 MDF with portions acting as an hvac chase.
post #450 of 542
Thread Starter 
Hey AirBenji that's exactly the type of information I was looking for. If I recall you have similar construction on the ceiling with clips, etc. In my case I had my 90lb daughter walking overhead and I could clearly make out the steps as she walked from one end of the room to the other. I don't have to hold my breath to hear microwave door, clanging dishes, etc.
Hopefully I get more feedback from others but your situation has me close to convinced that if I do some cutting/decoupling I will get noticeably better isolation. I'm just dreading the hacking I'll have to do without the guarantee the results will be noticeably better.
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