AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Audio theory, Setup and Chat › Very unusual question re: using extremely thin speaker cables
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Very unusual question re: using extremely thin speaker cables

post #1 of 12
12/31/11 at 9:31am
Thread Starter 
A friend of mine has a pair of Energy Connoisseur C8 loudspeakers (circa 1996) powered by a Yamaha 5.1 receiver, so he's never really heard his C8's at their full potential, driven by a dedicated power amp. His receiver has pre-amp outputs.

Yesterday I decided at the spur of the moment to lend him my Arcam P85 power amp for a good length of time. Upon hooking things up, I was absolutely shocked to find that he is using a 30 foot long CAT5e network cable for the speaker connections (UTP Cat5e 25awg stranded core). Specifically, one wire per -/+ connection, so this 5e cable is delivering power to two large C8 speakers, plus a couple of small surrounds.

I very nervously hooked things up anyway, and we watched UFC last night. It was good. The cabling is not.

Is my Arcam P85 at risk of damage? Are his speakers at risk? And most importantly, could the cable catch fire? Guy's got a family for heaven's sake, so I'm pretty upset about this situation. Would really appreciate some sound advice here.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 12
12/31/11 at 9:50am
Quote:


A friend of mine has a pair of Energy Connoisseur C8 loudspeakers (circa 1996) powered by a Yamaha 5.1 receiver, so he's never really heard his C8's at their full potential, driven by a dedicated power amp.

Not necessarily true. His Yamaha might well be quite powerful enough for those speakers.

Quote:


Is my Arcam P85 at risk of damage? Are his speakers at risk? And most importantly, could the cable catch fire?

No, no and no. Odds are, he's suffering no more than some HF rolloff. Skip the dedicated amp idea, and get him a big spool of 12awg. It'll probably make a bigger difference.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 12
12/31/11 at 10:08am
I've seen lots of people using 22-24 gauge from their HTIB for years. No fires or speaker damage yet.

Horrible sound, but it was perfectly safe.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 12
12/31/11 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
Okay, thank you both for putting my mind at ease.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 12
12/31/11 at 10:45am
He should still switch to heavier gauge cable. Or at least use all banded color strands of CAT5e to one terminal and all solid colored strands to the other so that the overall thickness of wire is larger.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 12
12/31/11 at 10:54am
If he's using CAT5 cable because he had some laying around, that's one thing.

But there have also been quite a few horse!@#$ articles in audiofool magazines that tout the perceived sonic benefits of CAT5 speaker wire. Again this is just BS.

Have him buy a roll of cheap 16ga speaker wire at Home Depot or just buy the bulk wire in the length he needs.

Done!
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 12
12/31/11 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Couldn't agree more about using a heavier gauge. In his defense, he's not actually using network cable because he wants to (but I still think it's a mistake).

He originally had a typical TV/5.1 setup in his living room, and then bought a projector. The screen was installed in an adjacent room, and the speakers repositioned accordingly, but the TV stand still holds all of the electronics in the living room, 30 feet away. He didn't have any speaker wire handy, but he did have some CAT5 cable, so I guess he just decided to use that instead temporarily. But "temporarily" turned into "indefinitely", and it's been that way for a while.

Anyway, I hope he rectifies the situation soon. I'll see if I have any extra cable to offer. Hell, even lamp cord would be an improvement.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 12
12/31/11 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

If he's using CAT5 cable because he had some laying around, that's one thing.

But there have also been quite a few horse!@#$ articles in audiofool magazines that tout the perceived sonic benefits of CAT5 speaker wire. Again this is just BS.

Some of the braided multiple Cat5 speaker wires out there have caused many an amp to oscillate, sometimes catastrophically; I've seen it on more than one occasion myself. It's not going to in the OP's friend's set up, just thought I'd mention it in case some go a googling and see the many braided DIY 'designs' and decide to try them.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 12
12/31/11 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Some of the braided multiple Cat5 speaker wires out there have caused many an amp to oscillate, sometimes catastrophically; I've seen it on more than one occasion myself. It's not going to in the OP's friend's set up, just thought I'd mention it in case some go a googling and see the many braided DIY 'designs' and decide to try them.

Yes, I remember that too. It's due to the high capacitance of these braided cables against a marginally stable amp. So it seems that CAT5 speaker wire not only results in poor bass and damping performance, it can also damage some amplifiers.

Aren't audio magazines a wonderful source of good technical information for a novice.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 12
12/31/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Some of the braided multiple Cat5 speaker wires out there have caused many an amp to oscillate, sometimes catastrophically; I've seen it on more than one occasion myself. It's not going to in the OP's friend's set up, just thought I'd mention it in case some go a googling and see the many braided DIY 'designs' and decide to try them.

Why does this make me think of that Polk wire from years ago, what was it called? The stuff that would smoke off cheap amps. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...


To the original question:
No you're not likely to damage anything, as you've been told. 16-2 or 14-2 is very cheap (Given that we're talking about 30ft or bigger, and given that 14-2 isn't that much more expensive, I'd go with 14-2; I'm a fan of Home Depot Ultra Super Premium Audiophile Extreme Quality at the extremely luxurious price of around 20 cents a foot), so just go with that. It will allay any concerns and potentially improve things.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 12
12/31/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Yes, I remember that too. It's due to the high capacitance of these braided cables against a marginally stable amp. So it seems that CAT5 speaker wire not only results in poor bass and damping performance, it can also damage some amplifiers.

Aren't audio magazines a wonderful source of good technical information for a novice.

When I made the previous post, I was thinking about a time when I went to a bloke's house after he'd made some of the 9 core braided DIY Cat5 cables and was complaining about some strange sounds from the new configuration. I walked over to check there were no stray strands causing a problem and touched the top of the amp and burned my hand. It was oscillating madly (later confirmed on CRO). Replaced the cable with a standard fig 8 stranded and it started behaving again.

Some amps, especially the fringe gear often don't even use output inductors, such as the Naims I owned many years ago. I even had a discussion with Julian Vereker about it at a show (spent more time talking about the new fangled PCM) and remained unconvinced, but as the system at that time worked perfectly, I didn't worry. The Naim amps especially are prone to oscillate without a sufficiently inductive cable as the cable inductance is required for stability into all loads.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 12
12/31/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walbert View Post

Why does this make me think of that Polk wire from years ago, what was it called? The stuff that would smoke off cheap amps. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...

I only know it by vague reputation as Polk is and has generally been a very minor brand down here - never seen it in person.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Audio theory, Setup and Chat

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Audio theory, Setup and Chat › Very unusual question re: using extremely thin speaker cables