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HDMI Matrix Switch - Why is this so complicated???? - Page 2

post #31 of 48
1/22/13 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post

As long as I can receive the 3D signal on the 3D capable projector, I don't care if my TV can't read the signal, truthfully, it doesn't have to be on at all! I just want to be able to have the ability to switch from multiple HDMI sources, extract the multichannel audio and send it to spdif or optical and output the HDMI signal to two sources all at the same time. After reading further, it appears that the Matrix box I listed earlier will do this but will not send the same source signal to two displays at the same time. It appears that it will only do 2 sources to 2 separate outputs at a time. frown.gif I am even ok with this because my projector screen will be pulled down over my TV so I can only watch one a time anyway but would still like the ability to have both "sinks" display the same 2D information.

Any recommendations for a device like this?

Then you need a unit that does EDID spoofing. I believe almost all of the Octava units will do that (Joe can correct me, if it is all of the units).
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post #32 of 48
1/22/13 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post


So, if someone complains that the matrix only pass 2CH sound, and couldn't get 5.1CH or the other way, their complains / reviews are completely wrong. Becasue these units don't have the capability to modify audio format, they simply pass. If somebody gets 2CH audio, that is because the audio coming into the matrix is 2CH. If someone complains of no audio, it is because the speaker unit doesn't understand the incoming audio format, so it can't produce sound (assuming video source does send audio). Always use that "reset" button to RESET this unit if you don't get audio, then go from there.

Regarding more advanced audio formats, such as Dolby TrueHD, HDMI output has the bandwidth capability to carry them, but the SPDIF optical audio does NOT have sufficient bandwidth to support Dolby TrueHD bit rate. This apply to all SPDIF optical link on earth. Most Blu-ray DVD allows user to select available audio formats, so if you want to enjoy Dolby TrueHD, you can use HDMI output B to connect to a AV receiver if output A goes to the TV directly in a 1x2 splitter setup; in this case, HDMI output B becomes the audio output port to get the most advanced audio formats, which the SPDIF can't support
========== Copyrighted by J& R Galaxies ====

The above is true. Also note that DTS-HD MA is not available either. Instead you will get what is referred to as the DTS core, which matches DTS from a DVD.

Remember the source sends only compatible signals as determined by the EDID. If you are connected to a two-channel sink, then some device has to intercept and change the EDID to get multichannel (even lossy multichannel) sound. That sound will then no longer be compatible with the two-channel sink device.
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post #33 of 48
5/29/13 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post

I thought this an interesting read on the unit I listed above. It turns out that it is a 4x1 and 1x2 matrix. It will do two separate 4x1 switching or one 1x2 splitter. It will also extract the 5.1 audio from the HDMI source and send it spdif in 5.1 mode via channel out A. They have a prosumer version of it that I will be buying and will report my finding here for all but I believe this is the unit that I have been looking for and answers the OP original request. And it's under $100!!!!

Did it work for you? I'm having similar 5.1-2.0 problems with my current splitter.
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post #34 of 48
5/30/13 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfingers View Post

Did it work for you? I'm having similar 5.1-2.0 problems with my current splitter.

Do you have an AVR with HDMI switching? Running source, say the set top box into AVR first and then splitting the HDMI signal for runs to your TV's will give you a signal (2.0) that the TV can use and 5.1 for the AVR. One other thing if you want run an optical cable for the set in the room with the AVR to the AVR for off air audio from the set's internal tuner.

I just want to update what I posted on the thread way back. I had used a $5 switch back in January that worked out until I switched BD players, to 3D unit. The 5 buck switch is controlled by CEC and I did not realize it at the time and the new BD was trying to run the show. At that time I was using optical for input to the 10 year old Onkyo AVR, 6.1, with a Monoprice.com splitter to 2 3D sets in different rooms. Will thinking that it was time, retired the old Onkyo got a new Onkyo. Set it up and got exactly what I wanted in function. The kicker is I have yet to use the new 3D BD other then a test, having used the other one once, why am I not surprised. The rub is if I had turned off the CEC in the new BD player I would be using the old Onkyo, BUT the new Onkyo has Audyssey and 7.1 and with a little speaker wire mod I have a system that sounds great and some parts for my next great idea.
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post #35 of 48
5/30/13 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post

Do you have an AVR with HDMI switching? Running source, say the set top box into AVR first and then splitting the HDMI signal for runs to your TV's will give you a signal (2.0) that the TV can use and 5.1 for the AVR. One other thing if you want run an optical cable for the set in the room with the AVR to the AVR for off air audio from the set's internal tuner.

I just want to update what I posted on the thread way back. I had used a $5 switch back in January that worked out until I switched BD players, to 3D unit. The 5 buck switch is controlled by CEC and I did not realize it at the time and the new BD was trying to run the show. At that time I was using optical for input to the 10 year old Onkyo AVR, 6.1, with a Monoprice.com splitter to 2 3D sets in different rooms. Will thinking that it was time, retired the old Onkyo got a new Onkyo. Set it up and got exactly what I wanted in function. The kicker is I have yet to use the new 3D BD other then a test, having used the other one once, why am I not surprised. The rub is if I had turned off the CEC in the new BD player I would be using the old Onkyo, BUT the new Onkyo has Audyssey and 7.1 and with a little speaker wire mod I have a system that sounds great and some parts for my next great idea.

I have a NAD T747 that applies ghastly processing to the video, so I have an HDMI selector going into a splitter that sends one signal to the screen (perfectly) and one to the AVR.

I recently bought a multi-region BD player, and while my PS3 can send 5.1 audio through my system, the Pioneer BDP-150 and the DVD player it replaced only seem to be able to send 2.0.
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post #36 of 48
5/30/13 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfingers View Post

I have a NAD T747 that applies ghastly processing to the video, so I have an HDMI selector going into a splitter that sends one signal to the screen (perfectly) and one to the AVR.

I recently bought a multi-region BD player, and while my PS3 can send 5.1 audio through my system, the Pioneer BDP-150 and the DVD player it replaced only seem to be able to send 2.0.

It's not a problem with the sources. It is a problem with the way you have the system configured.

Remember HDMI can only send one video and one audio stream at a time. If you want more than that, then HDMI can't do it.

Also remember that your sink (destination) devices send the EDID packet to the sources. The EDID tells the source what capabilities the destination devices have. The source then (based on the HDMI specs) has to send a compatible signal with all sinks.

So, if you have a TV that reports it can only accept 2.0-channel audio, then the source is only allowed to send 2.0 channel audio even though the AVR can accept 5.1-channel (and 2.0) audio. HDMI can only send one audio stream at a time. So, 2.0 wins.

If the splitter was after the AVR, then you would get 5.1-channel audio, since the audio was already decoded by the AVR before the splitter. There is no way in the T747 to disable video processing?

To get around this you would need a switcher that fakes-out (spoofs) the EDID signal. Then you could send 5.1-channel output but, of course, the TV would be unable to decode that audio signal since it doesn't know about 5.1-channel sources.
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post #37 of 48
5/30/13 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

If the splitter was after the AVR, then you would get 5.1-channel audio, since the audio was already decoded by the AVR before the splitter. There is no way in the T747 to disable video processing?

No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

To get around this you would need a switcher that fakes-out (spoofs) the EDID signal. Then you could send 5.1-channel output but, of course, the TV would be unable to decode that audio signal since it doesn't know about 5.1-channel sources.
I know, which is why I asked if the matrix switcher he bought solved his problem.
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post #38 of 48
5/30/13 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfingers View Post

I know, which is why I asked if the matrix switcher he bought solved his problem.

It will. I used one for a while that switched to 5.1 when needed. It was a pain at times (dip switches) but it worked. No longer needed since I went to an AVR that could handle HDMI.
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post #39 of 48
5/30/13 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

It will. I used one for a while that switched to 5.1 when needed. It was a pain at times (dip switches) but it worked. No longer needed since I went to an AVR that could handle HDMI.

Cheers, that sounds great.
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post #40 of 48
5/30/13 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfingers View Post

I have a NAD T747 that applies ghastly processing to the video, so I have an HDMI selector going into a splitter that sends one signal to the screen (perfectly) and one to the AVR.

I recently bought a multi-region BD player, and while my PS3 can send 5.1 audio through my system, the Pioneer BDP-150 and the DVD player it replaced only seem to be able to send 2.0.

I assume the videio is ok and if its not a menu setting there another way to go. Optical or digital coax. May take pushing 2 buttens on the remote short of buying a new AVR may be the way to go.
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post #41 of 48
5/30/13 at 1:07pm
Hi Andy

‘Then you need a unit that does EDID spoofing. I believe almost all of the Octava units will do that (Joe can correct me, if it is all of the units).’ – yes all of our devices have EDID management, most can now be updated via USB which is so much better than having to get the EEPROM burner out!!!

Joe
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post #42 of 48
5/30/13 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post

I assume the videio is ok and if its not a menu setting there another way to go. Optical or digital coax. May take pushing 2 buttens on the remote short of buying a new AVR may be the way to go.

No, I've adjusted every HDMI audio setting on the TV but nothing works. I'm just waiting for a couple of DVI-HDMI converters to arrive so that I can see if a complete zero works differently before I invest in a new switcher..
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post #43 of 48
5/31/13 at 8:20am
The only other thing that could have helped you was something like the OPPO Blu-Ray players were they have two *independent* HDMI outputs. So what is attached to one HDMI port does change the EDID going to the other port.

Since you problem is a simple 5.1 versus 2.0 HDMI issue, your only choice is to choose one or the other. If you choose 5.1 you'll need to change the EDID to 5.1 or place the TV after an AVR in the HDMI chain. Really there aren't any other options for 5.1 (assuming you want lossless 5.1 and not lossy 5.1).
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post #44 of 48
5/31/13 at 9:21am
Bill Paul at NeoPro has a rather unique approach to the 2.0 vs. 5.1 to multiple Sync’s problem.

It’s not the lowest cost 8x8 HDMI Matrix on the market but is pretty unique - http://www.neoprointegrator.com/vandenberg.php

Joe
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post #45 of 48
5/31/13 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Bill Paul at NeoPro has a rather unique approach to the 2.0 vs. 5.1 to multiple Sync’s problem.

It’s not the lowest cost 8x8 HDMI Matrix on the market but is pretty unique - http://www.neoprointegrator.com/vandenberg.php

Joe

I really like their products. I have had two Borregos running for 3+ years without ever being powered off (they are on a UPS) or reset. I basically forget that they are there.

Interesting concept with Vandenberg (like that name) to replace the 2-channel audio with the S/PDIF audio. It would work for pretty much anything with the exception of Blu-Ray and DVD-Audio/SACD players.

I suspect 99% of the general population would not notice the difference and maybe 80+% of the AVSForum folks would not notice until you told them there was a difference. At that point 90+% would claim that they really can hear a difference.
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post #46 of 48
5/31/13 at 9:46am
Hello Andy

We look afters Bill’s products over here in the UK and like you we tend to ‘forget’ they are out there as we get very few problems with them.

I’ll keep poking Bill for a ‘BD’ audio solution 

Joe
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post #47 of 48
5/31/13 at 10:14am
Please pass along my thanks for a couple of really great products (and excellent support when I needed it a few or so years back with an upgrade).
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post #48 of 48
6/15/13 at 6:04am
Just to let anyone reading this thread know that I ordered the cheapest deal on the generic 4x2 Matrix Switcher that's available all over the place.

First attempt was unsuccessful as my receiver was still only getting 2.0. I nearly cried in frustration, until I noticed the "AUDIO" button on the switcher's remote. Button pressed, audio now passed through as 5.1. PROBLEM SOLVED.
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