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My Enlightened View on Keystone Adjustment

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
A while back I was reading with great interest a few opinions/threads/posts on keystone adjustment. I've heard differing opinions on how detrimental it is to the image, and since I'm more of an audiophile than a videophile I wasn't sure it was going to really be a big deal. I also had read Art at Projectorreviews.com's take on the use of keystone, where he said it wasn't as big of a problem as some made it out to be.

Anyway, I happened to see someone mention that the monoprice ceiling mount fit the Epson 3010, which I just happened to buy a couple months ago. Now I've never used a ceiling mount...I've always had my projector on either a shelf or a dedicated projector stand in the back of the room. Especially now since I'm in an apartment, it didn't seem feasible. Well, after viewing the youtube video on how to install this mount, and considering how ridiculously inexpensive it is, I decided to give it a go...



The last hour or so, after getting everything nice and square, I started taking a look at some sources that I have become familiar with - some of the channels on my DirecTV, a few BD discs, and a 3D program that I had recorded off of DirecTV since I don't currently have any 3D blurays in house. I have to say, I am certain that I can tell an improvement in the picture quality. It's apparent in 2D programming, but I noticed an even bigger improvement with 3D source material. To be specific, the images looked a bit sharper to me across the board, with the 3D material seeming to be a bit more clear to my eyes. It's not that it wasn't clear before, because it was. But things just seem to be more delineated, if that makes sense. I'm almost wanting to say that the overall 3D effect is improved, even though it's not really in the depth of the image, but just the presentation in general. I am not using *any* keystone adjustment at all right now, and the projector is as square to the screen as I can get it. (The 3010 has a zero offset.)

So, while the image certainly looked very good even with the keystoning, I didn't really know what I was missing out on. Now that I have it set up more ideally, I feel I'm getting as much quality out of this projector as I can right now, save for when I upgrade my screen in another month or so.

I really appreciate all the help and guidance I've received from this forum...happy viewing!
post #2 of 13
Maybe its that at the movie theater the projector is sitting at a very high position and it then aims down towards the screen?

Kind of like the same a false/roof mount pj aims down at a HT screen??

I have no idea??
post #3 of 13
The study we did found that keystone implementations vary on every projector, and therefore it was deemed inconclusive and projector specific. That is why we stopped researching further. There are some projectors that can completely ruin the image with +1 keystone, there are others where it is a nearly invisible difference, it just depends on several things, such as how the keystone was implemented, how sharp a projector starts out, how good the convergence starts out or CA.

Note I would generally not recommend using Keystone on an LCD projector, but DLP sometimes has a bit more lee-way in the sharpness since it has no convergence (potentially only CA). That said I have seen DLP's that also are ruined by only 1 or 2 clicks of keystone, so in short it just depends. Of course it's better not to use it at all, especially given you never know how bad the effects will be. One thing for sure, every projector's implementation of keystone is definitely not equal.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The study we did found that keystone implementations vary on every projector, and therefore it was deemed inconclusive and projector specific. That is why we stopped researching further. There are some projectors that can completely ruin the image with +1 keystone, there are others where it is a nearly invisible difference, it just depends on several things, such as how the keystone was implemented, how sharp a projector starts out, how good the convergence starts out or CA.

Note I would generally not recommend using Keystone on an LCD projector, but DLP sometimes has a bit more lee-way in the sharpness since it has no convergence (potentially only CA). That said I have seen DLP's that also are ruined by only 1 or 2 clicks of keystone, so in short it just depends. Of course it's better not to use it at all, especially given you never know how bad the effects will be. One thing for sure, every projector's implementation of keystone is definitely not equal.

The posts that you made were awesome...I remember that thread from not long ago where you were looking into it. The thing with me is that I was actually very happy with the image that I had, and I would have honestly never known the difference if I didn't go ahead and try it the way it's "supposed to be done". I wasn't really noticing any visual artifacts that I could point to and say, "ah, yep, that's what the keystone adjustment is doing!". That's why this whole thing is weird to me. And I think that's why I was sort of defending the fact that it DIDN'T make any difference, even though others kept telling me it was clear that it did. And I was using six clicks on the keystone adjustment, too. I definitely DO NOT feel as if it's like the difference going from 720p to 1080p...it wasn't quite to that level. It was more like seeing a slightly better transfer to disc, if that makes any sense.

You were a big reason why I did this at all, though, cause you spent so much time trying to discern the difference for yourself. And my Epson is LCD, obviously, so my experience seems to be consistent with what you found, as well.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

Maybe its that at the movie theater the projector is sitting at a very high position and it then aims down towards the screen?

Kind of like the same a false/roof mount pj aims down at a HT screen??

I have no idea??

It's funny you mention that. A few weeks ago I was at a local theater...one of the smaller ones, but one that still had recent films so you sort of expect them to have decent quality projection. Well clearly the image was in need of keystone adjustment cause it was rockin' the trapezoid big time. So during the previews I walk out into the hallway and tell the manager they have a keystone issue and could they please fix it. (I usually don't complain, but this was REALLY messed up.) He sort of looked at me funny, but said he'd take care of it. After about ten mins nothing had changed, so I went back out again and told him a second time. Same result...he said he'd get right on that. Well, it turns out he really had no idea what I was telling him, so I took him into the theater and showed him myself. But I've never seen an image in a theater this messed up!
post #6 of 13
We have Cinepolis down here so yeah most of the time the movies are in focus and with proper keystone but once in a bit I also have to talk to the projectionist who goes oops! sorry and its either fixed or I ask for new tickets to another movie.

Only down here if I say wrong keystone they have no idea versus if I say dude! wrong pj down angle then they check and its fixed.......most of the time....sigh.
post #7 of 13
I just try to avoid keystone altogether. I have hands on experience with how digital keystone (just slight adjustments) can visually degrade a picture. Agreed that results are going to vary from projector to projector, but it would be a pain to mount and test a projector knowing you have to apply keystone. In my case, if I needed to apply keystone to mount the projector, I eliminated it from the list of possible projectors.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I just try to avoid keystone altogether. I have hands on experience with how digital keystone (just slight adjustments) can visually degrade a picture. Agreed that results are going to vary from projector to projector, but it would be a pain to mount and test a projector knowing you have to apply keystone. In my case, if I needed to apply keystone to mount the projector, I eliminated it from the list of possible projectors.

Agreed that the best keystone is none.

I also noticed that besides liking projectors mounted on high the same extends to lcd screens where some folks like them above the fireplace?
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The study we did found that keystone implementations vary on every projector, and therefore it was deemed inconclusive and projector specific. That is why we stopped researching further. There are some projectors that can completely ruin the image with +1 keystone, there are others where it is a nearly invisible difference, it just depends on several things, such as how the keystone was implemented, how sharp a projector starts out, how good the convergence starts out or CA.

Note I would generally not recommend using Keystone on an LCD projector, but DLP sometimes has a bit more lee-way in the sharpness since it has no convergence (potentially only CA). That said I have seen DLP's that also are ruined by only 1 or 2 clicks of keystone, so in short it just depends. Of course it's better not to use it at all, especially given you never know how bad the effects will be. One thing for sure, every projector's implementation of keystone is definitely not equal.

I've seen some DLPs that have ruined PQ at 1 and 2 clicks, but then look pretty close to normal at 3 clicks.
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Any of you guys using this monoprice mount? Especially for a first timer like myself, this thing is a great value. Most of the mounts I looked at when people mentioned them were in the hundreds of dollars, so for this to be under $20 was a no-brainer for me. I wasn't even sure it would work in my situation, but so far I love it.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Any of you guys using this monoprice mount? Especially for a first timer like myself, this thing is a great value. Most of the mounts I looked at when people mentioned them were in the hundreds of dollars, so for this to be under $20 was a no-brainer for me. I wasn't even sure it would work in my situation, but so far I love it.

I have one, it works well.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

I have one, it works well.

Definitely. I see you're a fellow apartment dweller. Any pics of your HT to share?
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Any of you guys using this monoprice mount? Especially for a first timer like myself, this thing is a great value. Most of the mounts I looked at when people mentioned them were in the hundreds of dollars, so for this to be under $20 was a no-brainer for me. I wasn't even sure it would work in my situation, but so far I love it.

I am in the same boat...Apartment dweller who doesnt want to mess with the walls or ceilings....

are you saying your magic monoprice mount does damage ceiling in any way ? could you please post the link to monoprice and youtube please ?
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