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My Best bet for around $1000?

post #1 of 31
1/5/12 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
Looking for some ideas. Was thinking of getting the HC4000, but I'm not sure if it will be bright enough. It allegedly has a 300 fewer lumens than my HC1500. The HC4000 has the same offset so I may not have to remount anything (the screen can adjust from side to side) .

Factors & Requirements:
  • Apartment.
  • Gray 92" Screen.
  • Ceiling mount.
  • 12.5 Foot Throw.
  • Brownish Beige Walls.
  • White popcorn ceiling.
  • Blinds that block some light.
  • Mostly night viewing with some weekend viewing during the day. Don't mind using brighter lamp setting and "Sports" mode on the weekends, but would like to use Eco most of the time.
  • RBE not really a factor.
  • Decent out of box calibration. I'm not a calibration pro.
  • 1080p.
  • EDIT: I don't need built in speakers.

Also, the HC4000 is more or less a rehash of the 3800. Anything new coming out in this lineup to replace it?
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post #2 of 31
1/5/12 at 3:57pm
I had the HC3800 and enjoyed it in limited light situations - but as you said, the lamp was set high vs eco.

Projector Central suggestions:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home...s.htm?sort=3#1

Optoma HD20 and VS Pro8200.
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post #3 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:20pm
The Mitsubishi hc4000 has superior OOTB color than the Pro8200 or Optoma hd20. It also has far darker blacks. I have owned both the Mits hc4000 and the Viewsonic. I like the Viewsonic for some things, but the Mits is all around a better projector, better color, slightly sharper, better blacks, and better for movies.

The Viewsonic has less RBE, but this will only matter if you are one of the 15% or so that is bothered by RBE at 4x CW. The Viewsonic's RBE is less because of the raised black level floor (worse blacks), and maybe also helped by the extra segment on the wheel (7-segment instead of 6-segment).

You do not need more brightness for a 92" screen, you'll have too much already, even with a gray screen. You should be able to run the Mits on low lamp for a very long time.
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post #4 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:25pm
I would vouch on the W1100 (2000 lumen) or W1200 (1800 lumen) in your case.
The HC4000 throws a slightly better picture when it comes to slightly deeper blacks and better out-of-box preset calibrations. The BenQ's will need a bit more work in calibration to get a 'better' picture. However, the W1100 (brighter than W1200) will be much brighter than the Mitsubishi. However the main strengths of the W1200 and W1100 is that they are much superior in their sharpness and larger image throw (if needed later down the road).

Both W1200 and W1100 also use 4x color wheels.

Another extra feature that the BenQ's have over the Mitsubishi's is that they have picture-in-picture and onboard speakers. Lots have found the onboard speakers to be quite useful if you have a simple setup or even during times when you are sneaking a late night movie and don't want to use the entire surround system.

Both are worth checking out. There are threads on both W1100 and W1200 on AVS if you're interested
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post #5 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

I would vouch on the W1100 (2000 lumen) or W1200 (1800 lumen) in your case.
The HC4000 throws a slightly better picture when it comes to slightly deeper blacks and better out-of-box preset calibrations. The BenQ's will need a bit more work in calibration to get a 'better' picture. However, the W1100 (brighter than W1200) will be much brighter than the Mitsubishi. However the main strengths of the W1200 and W1100 is that they are much superior in their sharpness and larger image throw (if needed later down the road).

Both W1200 and W1100 also use 4x color wheels.

Another extra feature that the BenQ's have over the Mitsubishi's is that they have picture-in-picture and onboard speakers. Lots have found the onboard speakers to be quite useful if you have a simple setup or even during times when you are sneaking a late night movie and don't want to use the entire surround system.

Both are worth checking out. There are threads on both W1100 and W1200 on AVS if you're interested

I will have to check those out. I probably won't use any built in speakers though, I haven't ever run into noise issues with my surround setup.

Thanks.
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post #6 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Mitsubishi hc4000 has superior OOTB color than the Pro8200 or Optoma hd20. It also has far darker blacks. I have owned both the Mits hc4000 and the Viewsonic. I like the Viewsonic for some things, but the Mits is all around a better projector, better color, slightly sharper, better blacks, and better for movies.

The Viewsonic has less RBE, but this will only matter if you are one of the 15% or so that is bothered by RBE at 4x CW. The Viewsonic's RBE is less because of the raised black level floor (worse blacks), and maybe also helped by the extra segment on the wheel (7-segment instead of 6-segment).

You do not need more brightness for a 92" screen, you'll have too much already, even with a gray screen. You should be able to run the Mits on low lamp for a very long time.

Yeah I almost snagged the Viewsonic when Newegg had that sale last week or whenever it was. I remember reading some concerns about the black levels, build quality, and Viewsonic support (some people were receiving bad refurbs after sending theirs in for service).

The HC4000 is a nice machine.
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post #7 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

Yeah I almost snagged the Viewsonic when Newegg had that sale last week or whenever it was. I remember reading some concerns about the black levels, build quality, and Viewsonic support (some people were receiving bad refurbs after sending theirs in for service).

The HC4000 is a nice machine.

Thumbs up to the HC4000, it is quite a machine, lots of good reviews
And they have excellent service too!
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post #8 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:52pm
You owe it to yourself to at least check out the Epson 6500ub refurb for $949. It comes with Epson's top of the line 2 year warranty.
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post #9 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:57pm
Once you use a DLP, do yourself a favor and stick to it, unless you know what an LCD looks like. Most don't like going from DLP to LCD and wind up going back to DLP... I'm biased with DLP, it's true. However, it is a fact that most that end up with a DLP never go back
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post #10 of 31
1/5/12 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_63 View Post

You owe it to yourself to at least check out the Epson 6500ub refurb for $949. It comes with Epson's top of the line 2 year warranty.

I looked at that a bit, but was a bit concerned about the iris and issues that LCDs develop over time (lcd block, polarizer...etc).
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post #11 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

Once you use a DLP, do yourself a favor and stick to it, unless you know what an LCD looks like. Most don't like going from DLP to LCD and wind up going back to DLP... I'm biased with DLP, it's true. However, it is a fact that most that end up with a DLP never go back

First PJ was a SP4805 and then I went to the HC1500 so it's only been DLPs for me. I almost gave up on DLPs after the color wheel on the 4805 bit the dust, but I bought it refurb so it may have had way more hours on it than I knew about.
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post #12 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:04pm
any reason the epson 8350 isnt suggested?
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post #13 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

I looked at that a bit, but was a bit concerned about the iris and issues that LCDs develop over time (lcd block, polarizer...etc).

Don't need to use the iris. I see no difference. I use xv color mode and in that mode you can't use the iris. The 6500ub has inorganic panels which don't have the problems that organic panels have.

However, this seems like a DLP only thread so I'll bow out.

Of coarse if you want better blacks then this is what Art says about the 6500ub:
Nor can the DLP projectors out there touch its black levels.

Good luck with your choice.
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post #14 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselvrr View Post

any reason the epson 8350 isnt suggested?

Perhaps because the OP has only been using DLP up until now.

If you want to try out LCD, by all means, you should, BUT, do it smart
(information and self-learned experience is priceless and adds to your arsenal of self-knowledge to make better and smarter decisions!)

See if you can see a home setup through a friend or someone that lives in your area with their own and see how you like the LCD look.

Or you could always find an online or local retailer that allows you to purchase projectors with a 7-14 day (or longer) return policy. However, it's important to find one without restocking fees or any other hidden charges for returning a projector after purchase for a full refund! This way you'll be able to really test out a LCD or even DLP in your own home setting
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post #15 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:19pm
I have a Mits HD 1000 and recently upgraded to Benq w1200. It has a dramatically brighter and sharper picture. Great for sports viewing.
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post #16 of 31
1/5/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rokstock View Post

I have a Mits HD 1000 and recently upgraded to Benq w1200. It has a dramatically brighter and sharper picture. Great for sports viewing.

Great and happy to see you enjoying your W1200
Isn't the W1200 really sharp haha. Btw, how was the picture quality out of the box?
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post #17 of 31
1/6/12 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
I may need to find a place to view an LCD in Orange County if there's really that much of a difference.

The only place I've seen them is at Best Buy
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post #18 of 31
1/6/12 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 
Is the step up to the BenQ W6000 worth it from the HC4000? The lens shift on the W6000 would make the install easier than most non Mitsubishi DLPs.

I understand that the W6000 takes some calibration for decent color. Too much for someone that hasn't had to do much calibration and doesn't own any calibration tools?
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post #19 of 31
1/6/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

Is the step up to the BenQ W6000 worth it from the HC4000? The lens shift on the W6000 would make the install easier than most non Mitsubishi DLPs.

I understand that the W6000 takes some calibration for decent color. Too much for someone that hasn't had to do much calibration and doesn't own any calibration tools?

Your screen size might be too small for the W6000 as it is a very bright projector.
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post #20 of 31
1/6/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

Is the step up to the BenQ W6000 worth it from the HC4000? The lens shift on the W6000 would make the install easier than most non Mitsubishi DLPs.

I understand that the W6000 takes some calibration for decent color. Too much for someone that hasn't had to do much calibration and doesn't own any calibration tools?

There are trade-offs for each one. The w6000 has an absolute lower black level floor but only if you like the IRIS, the hc4000 does best mounted at farthest throw. There is a decent difference in contrast between these DLP's when you mount them at farthest throw to closest throw (I've seen and measured it). The w6000 will be a little too bright, but not too bad if you have a gray screen (you will have to go into the Service Menu and change the IRIS settings on the w6000 to reduce brightness).

If you are bothered by IRIS's or physical noise, the Mits hc4000 is the better choice.

If you don't mind IRIS's, the Benq w6000 is better. The Mits hc4000 has a cleaner image however, it is better for poorer sources (Mits has Dark Chip 3, Benq is DC 2).

So it is more of an individual decision you must weigh the pro's and con's of each.
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post #21 of 31
1/6/12 at 10:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

There are trade-offs for each one. The w6000 has an absolute lower black level floor but only if you like the IRIS, the hc4000 does best mounted at farthest throw. There is a decent difference in contrast between these DLP's when you mount them at farthest throw to closest throw (I've seen and measured it). The w6000 will be a little too bright, but not too bad if you have a gray screen (you will have to go into the Service Menu and change the IRIS settings on the w6000 to reduce brightness).

If you are bothered by IRIS's or physical noise, the Mits hc4000 is the better choice.

If you don't mind IRIS's, the Benq w6000 is better. The Mits hc4000 has a cleaner image however, it is better for poorer sources (Mits has Dark Chip 3, Benq is DC 2).

So it is more of an individual decision you must weigh the pro's and con's of each.

Yeah the W6000 really caught my eye being only $200 more. Sounds like there are too many issues though.

Haven't ever used a PJ with an Iris, not sure if it would actually bother me.
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post #22 of 31
1/6/12 at 2:07pm
http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLit.../dp/B0044UHJWY

super low display lag means its good for gaming and sports
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post #23 of 31
1/6/12 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs79 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLit.../dp/B0044UHJWY

super low display lag means its good for gaming and sports

Display lag more of an LCD issue? It never even occurred to me on either of my DLPs.
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post #24 of 31
1/6/12 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

Display lag more of an LCD issue? It never even occurred to me on either of my DLPs.

It is a problem with the 3d LCD projectors. I don't think any of the 2d LCD projectors have problems with lag. I don't know about DLP since I pay no attention to them because I can't use them.
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post #25 of 31
1/6/12 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_63 View Post

It is a problem with the 3d LCD projectors. I don't think any of the 2d LCD projectors have problems with lag. I don't know about DLP since I pay no attention to them because I can't use them.

Interesting. The Glasses 3D stuff out now is pretty hokey. May be worth looking at when the glasses free PJs are out.
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post #26 of 31
1/6/12 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

Interesting. The Glasses 3D stuff out now is pretty hokey. May be worth looking at when the glasses free PJs are out.

That's what I'm waiting for.
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post #27 of 31
1/6/12 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_63 View Post

It is a problem with the 3d LCD projectors. I don't think any of the 2d LCD projectors have problems with lag. I don't know about DLP since I pay no attention to them because I can't use them.

Every projector varies for lag, whether LCD, LCOS, or DLP.
There is no guarantee just because a projector is 2D that it will have good lag results, although the 2D ones are generally lower, but not guarantee.

You have to find the lag ratings or review for each individual projector.

A few good projectors for low lag are:

Viewsonic Pro8200 (20ms)
Mits hc4000 (30ms)
Epson 8350 (20ms)

More expensive ones:
Sony hw30 (30ms)
Panny 7000 (30ms)

------------------------------------------------------

Lag is only part of the gaming equation, the other part is pixel response time and sharpness, both which DLP win on. DLP is slightly better for gaming, but it depends what type of games you play and your own personal preferences. Some LCD's also do great in gaming, but I feel too many LCD's often lack sharpness for gaming when you get unlucky and get one with less than optimal convergence, then DLP will rip LCD apart in gaming due to the sharpness issue.
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post #28 of 31
1/6/12 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_63 View Post

It is a problem with the 3d LCD projectors. I don't think any of the 2d LCD projectors have problems with lag. I don't know about DLP since I pay no attention to them because I can't use them.

there arnt any 2 lcd projectors ,only cheap 1 lcd and red,blue, green 3 lcd.

lag and blur are a problem with lcd tech ,the 8350 has blur/motion issues.
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post #29 of 31
1/6/12 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

Great and happy to see you enjoying your W1200
Isn't the W1200 really sharp haha. Btw, how was the picture quality out of the box?

A little cool, not terrible though.
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post #30 of 31
2/11/12 at 2:08pm
Thread Starter 
Looks like the LG CF181D is creeping down in to my price range. Seems to be in a different class than the HC4000.

Need to figure out if the Vertical Lens Shift will allow me to leave my screen mounted as is...the screen has some horizontal wiggle room as the hooks can slide along a rail.
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